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Illinois Postgame Thread


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37 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

It’s almost hard to blame Green. I think the moment was too big for him. I know there are a lot of Newkirk haters here and he’s been tough to defend and deservedly so but Archie was gambling hard putting Green in that position. I think Newkirk would have made the right play but we’ll never know

What in God’s name makes you think Newkirk would make the right play?  The three times he chucked the ball out of bounds earlier in the game?

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For the loss...I blame Newkirk for not being able to handle 0-8 Illinois guard pressure. I blame Green for getting way too dribble happy in the last 10 minutes. I also blame him for his missed, open alley-oop layup. And I’m not too happy he about re-aggravated Juwan’s ankle with that pass at the end. 

I like Green. I hate his inner-Troy Williams. 

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7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Hartman really, really disappointed me tonight. Stupid foul late in the clock, missed two free throws then a wide open three from the top of the key in a very crucial sequence where illinois spread the lead late. That sequence probably cost us the game as much or more than Greens last play. 

Plenty of problems with what others said. Poor guard play, missed free throws,etc....but I'm with you. Have we actually had a stretch where we see the Hartman we knew 2 seasons ago? Maybe I was in the restroom or grabbing a beer but I don't recall it this year. 

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4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Not that it mattered because our guys who live in the gym can't make a free throw to save their life...but did anyone see Alstork commit foul with .1 seconds left and ref ate the whistle? 

Game should have been long over by that time though. 

Yep.  And Underwood ripped his ass.  But, not only did the refs eat their whistles, the announcers were totally oblivious as well.

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This is not directed at anyone in particular, but any IU fan who watches IU and blames Archie Miller either hasn’t played basketball or is just looking for someone to blame.  One example:  the guard dilemma.  Last night, Al Durham was not the answer, and truly is a wing not a point. So, your best options are either Newkirk or Green.  Many have pointed out the playground nonsense of Green’s second half dribbling, but as bad as he was, Newkirk was worse.  So, what is CAM supposed to do?  He had no options.  Other observations:

1. Morgan is a man, but must get foul-shooting fixed

2.  Love Collin Hartman, but he has become sporadic at best and hasn’t hit a 3-pointer we’ve needed since I can’t remember when

3.  I love the heart, effort and smart team play of McRoberts

4.  Rob Johnson has been a disappointment and still plays many times a Crean version of the game.  He had his most valuable years here as a freshman, and I would argue has improved little since

5.  Archie is doing everything he can with this group, but add to that the loss of Davis, and it’s too much to overcome.  

6.  Laugh if you must, but I long for the roster upgrades next year will bring

7.  Ball-handling and FT shooting is not Big Ten level and was the reason we lost last night 

 

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Green took to twitter after the game and said all his fault. I know these guys are kids. I get it. But I'll reiterate what I said after Maryland and other games....if he can't tighten up his handles and make free throws or make easy passes....Phinisee can just start over him immediately next year. I don't think it's much to ask of him, Newkirk or any of our guards.

Was watching game with a few friends last night. We were discussing what a team like Yogi/Hulls/Oladipo/Watford/Zeller would do to this team? Win by 50? 60? Hard to think that was only 5 years ago. What in the world Crean was doing with roster construction is beyond me. He sounds great on tv and I'm happy for him but when I watch games like last night I remind myself why he was fired. This was his roster in year 10???

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2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Green took to twitter after the game and said all his fault. I know these guys are kids. I get it. But I'll reiterate what I said after Maryland and other games....if he can't tighten up his handles and make free throws or make easy passes....Phinisee can just start over him immediately next year. I don't think it's much to ask of him, Newkirk or any of our guards.

Was watching game with a few friends last night. We were discussing what a team like Yogi/Hulls/Oladipo/Watford/Zeller would do to this team? Win by 50? 60? Hard to think that was only 5 years ago. What in the world Crean was doing with roster construction is beyond me. He sounds great on tv and I'm happy for him but when I watch games like last night I remind myself why he was fired. This was his roster in year 10???

Re: this roster being his 10th year?  Terrific point, Seeking 6

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43 minutes ago, Fundamentals said:

Re: this roster being his 10th year?  Terrific point, Seeking 6

Gosh I can't believe he couldn't recruit the last couple years. I'm sure his recruiting visits went like this.

"Hey Johnny, I'm Tom Crean from Indiana."

"I keep hearing that everybody wants you fired. You going to be there when I get to Bloomington?"

Couple that with 3 guys leaving early (2 expected one not), and it's easy to see for anyone who doesn't want to bash Crean.

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6 hours ago, cohete15 said:

For the loss...I blame Newkirk for not being able to handle 0-8 Illinois guard pressure. I blame Green for getting way too dribble happy in the last 10 minutes. I also blame him for his missed, open alley-oop layup. And I’m not too happy he about re-aggravated Juwan’s ankle with that pass at the end. 

I like Green. I hate his inner-Troy Williams. 

MSU guards was not able to handle the pressure either because they committed 25 turnovers the other night.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Yep.  And Underwood ripped his ass.  But, not only did the refs eat their whistles, the announcers were totally oblivious as well.

With .1 left on the clock the very second Morgan touched the ball the game is over. He did get fouled but it was after the horn sounded so they couldn't call it.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Yep.  And Underwood ripped his ass.  But, not only did the refs eat their whistles, the announcers were totally oblivious as well.

Yes I saw it and it would've been a three shot foul. I don't think the foul happened before the clock hit zero but I couldn't believe they didn't go add more time. 

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20 minutes ago, slojoe said:

What boat are people in about the last timeout? Do you like it between free throws or after the 2nd free throw? I know it was brought up right at the end of the game thread.

You'd be pressed to make a reasonable case for why Archie was wrong. The play he drew up did get our best player open under the basket and the guy we would want to take a three open on the wing. Pretty hard to blame the coach for the ball being thrown at the feet of someone. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You'd be pressed to make a reasonable case for why Archie was wrong. The play he drew up did get our best player open under the basket and the guy we would want to take a three open on the wing. Pretty hard to blame the coach for the ball being thrown at the feet of someone. 

Considering we had no half court offense in the 2nd half, about the last thing we needed was a TO after the 2nd FT. 

We got exactly what we wanted. Exactly what Archie wanted. 

Just didn't execute. Honestly couldn't have asked for a better set up than what we had after that miss.

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9 hours ago, BGleas said:

Green was good in the first half, but he really struggled the last 10:00 of the game. That to me is where RoJo is so disappointing. I know he’s not a point guard, but with the pressure Illinois puts on the guards, that where you’d hope a 4 year starting guard could go get the ball and do something to take the pressure off a guy like Green. Instead RoJo just stood on the wing watching the last several minutes. 

Yes, IU really was bad in taking the pressure off of the ball handler once he got in the front court.  I don't think Green was always dribbling just because he wanted to but often because none of his teammates made themselves available for a pass.

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I was not easy on Green earlier in the week and I still get frustrated with his 'shots that you can get anytime' so early in the shot clock that lead to a fast-break opportunity for the other team. He took less shots last night and I almost wonder if Archie just told him not to shoot it because he was looking to pass last night (when he wasn't dribbling it forever). Maybe next time Archie needs to tell him: 1. don't shoot unless you are wide open or have 5 seconds left on the shot clock AND 2. he's only allowed 10 dribbles until he needs to pass it. haha. 

That said, I mentioned yesterday that there are different degrees of boneheadedness and I can't get on Green for that last turnover. He got the ball up court quickly and made the right pass (I don't care if RoJo was open....that was the right pass). He just in a rush and threw it too low. I can live with that TO, too bad it came at the most crucial part of the game. 

Green is an incredible passer and maybe his two best passes of the night were ones that he didn't get credited with the assist for because of a foul and a missed shot. That one where he side stepped the charge and no-looked it to Juwan under the basket which ultimately lead to a foul was awesome. He also had a couple of great 'hot potato' swing passes that lead to assists. 

Of course most of those highlights came in the first half. And although for the most part our guards sucked in the second half, you also have to give credit to Illinois perimeter D. i think we were taken a little off guard because we don't typically get pressured out on the perimeter that intensely. Teams have been daring us to shoot, but that strategy also gives our guards good looks into the post. The Illini's pressure D really effected our post feeds in the second half; they took away Morgan touches in a way we weren't expecting or were prepared for. In those situations the guards need to step up, screen for each other, and drive to get the foul or dumpoff. The fact that Johnson is one of our best free throw shooters and got to the line ZERO times in a foul happy game is inexcusable. We can't have McSwain and Juwan shooting all the free throws. AT LEAST Green was getting to the line. 

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