Illinois Postgame Thread

[Hoosierhoopster]

10 hours ago, bstall76 said:

ISU beat us, IPFW beat us, we gave the game to UI by being dumb with the ball, missing bunnies and free throws. UI is a BAD team, so I am not sure what that makes us.

Inconsistent?

[tdhoosier]

9 hours ago, BGleas said:

Our guards were atrocious tonight. 

Pour free throw shooting was a flat-out embarrassment. 

This wont be popular, but the officials absolutely, 100% ruined that game. We’re better than Illinois, but the refs decided to take the game over and turn it into a free throw contest, which we clearly won’t win. Homestly, the Big Ten should be appalled and embarrassed by that display. 

No, this loss was not on Archie. 

I pretty much always agree with you. And I'm a firm believer that coaches don't get enough credit in wins and take too much blame in losses. BUT I don't think Archie has a clean slate here. 

1. No adjustments were made in the 2nd half. They were one dimensional and Illinois' main goal was to prevent the post feed - and they executed it.. IU didn't seem to have a back up plan.

2. shooting and FT%. This is an ongoing problem, but the percentages are down universally amongst the players who played under both Crean and Archie. It's more than a coincidence at this point. Our supposed best shooters, Colin and Rob's, shots look horrible. Colin is always falling backwards and Rob is always falling to the left. They look like freaking bowling pins out there. Rob actually looks worse when he's spotting up than when he's stopping an popping. The only thing that can explain the shooting woes is lack of repetition and/or lack of a shooting coach to catch these bad habits and improve them. I don't know. Maybe Archie is spending more time on defense and turnovers, which to his credit are improving, but no NCAA team should be shooting this bad from the line. 

I still think Archie is our guy, but he shares a lot of the blame here. 

[Hoosier82]

8 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

What in God’s name makes you think Newkirk would make the right play?  The three times he chucked the ball out of bounds earlier in the game?

Newkirk had 4 turnovers, one where he threw the ball out of bounds because McBob cut toward the basket when Josh thought he would clear out to take the pass, one was the BS over and back call that wasn't his fault, one was the traveling call which someone said in slo-mo he shuffled his feet but I counted two steps but whatever, and the last I don't remember but I was pretty sure it pertained to an offensive foul. So no, the non existing "three times" he chucked the ball out of bounds is not what makes me think that. If you're going to trash a member of the team at least be accurate. He didn't play as bad last night as some make it out to be but he sat because Green was playing better than usual and he was doing what Archie asked (For the most part) in not jacking up wild shots within 5 seconds of the shot clock but Green's two turnovers were far more costly and boneheaded than the any of the 4 attributed to to Newkirk. To answer your question, he more often than not makes the easy play vs trying to force the ball into a tough spot so it's my opinion that he should have been in the game in that moment vs Green. It certainly couldn't have ended up any worse.

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

2 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

Gosh I can't believe he couldn't recruit the last couple years. I'm sure his recruiting visits went like this.

"Hey Johnny, I'm Tom Crean from Indiana."

"I keep hearing that everybody wants you fired. You going to be there when I get to Bloomington?"

Couple that with 3 guys leaving early (2 expected one not), and it's easy to see for anyone who doesn't want to bash Crean.

Anyone that knows what was going on behind the scenes knows that yes, it was all Crean’s fault. 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Green took to twitter after the game and said all his fault. I know these guys are kids. I get it. But I'll reiterate what I said after Maryland and other games....if he can't tighten up his handles and make free throws or make easy passes....Phinisee can just start over him immediately next year. I don't think it's much to ask of him, Newkirk or any of our guards.

Was watching game with a few friends last night. We were discussing what a team like Yogi/Hulls/Oladipo/Watford/Zeller would do to this team? Win by 50? 60? Hard to think that was only 5 years ago. What in the world Crean was doing with roster construction is beyond me. He sounds great on tv and I'm happy for him but when I watch games like last night I remind myself why he was fired. This was his roster in year 10???

Phinisee is starting at point next year. Nothing Green can do about that. 

[FW_Hoosier]

14 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I pretty much always agree with you. And I'm a firm believer that coaches don't get enough credit in wins and take too much blame in losses. BUT I don't think Archie has a clean slate here. 

1. No adjustments were made in the 2nd half. They were one dimensional and Illinois' main goal was to prevent the post feed - and they executed it.. IU didn't seem to have a back up plan.

2. shooting and FT%. This is an ongoing problem, but the percentages are down universally amongst the players who played under both Crean and Archie. It's more than a coincidence at this point. Our supposed best shooters, Colin and Rob's, shots look horrible. Colin is always falling backwards and Rob is always falling to the left. They look like freaking bowling pins out there. Rob actually looks worse when he's spotting up than when he's stopping an popping. The only thing that can explain the shooting woes is lack of repetition and/or lack of a shooting coach to catch these bad habits and improve them. I don't know. Maybe Archie is spending more time on defense and turnovers, which to his credit are improving, but no NCAA team should be shooting this bad from the line. 

I still think Archie is our guy, but he shares a lot of the blame here. 

A thought did occur to me last night.  Do we miss having the “shot doctor” on staff?

[FW_Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Newkirk had 4 turnovers, one where he threw the ball out of bounds because McBob cut toward the basket when Josh thought he would clear out to take the pass, one was the BS over and back call that wasn't his fault, one was the traveling call which someone said in slo-mo he shuffled his feet but I counted two steps but whatever, and the last I don't remember but I was pretty sure it pertained to an offensive foul. So no, the non existing "three times" he chucked the ball out of bounds is not what makes me think that. If you're going to trash a member of the team at least be accurate. He didn't play as bad last night as some make it out to be but he sat because Green was playing better than usual and he was doing what Archie asked (For the most part) in not jacking up wild shots within 5 seconds of the shot clock but Green's two turnovers were far more costly and boneheaded than the any of the 4 attributed to to Newkirk. To answer your question, he more often than not makes the easy play vs trying to force the ball into a tough spot so it's my opinion that he should have been in the game in that moment vs Green. It certainly couldn't have ended up any worse.

That fourth turnover was a chuck out of bounds, so I guess you’re right, he only chucked it out of bounds twice, not three times.  I was wrong, Josh really is an all-time great.

I look forward to the days where we don’t have people making excuses for awful players like this.

[StLHoosier]

32 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I pretty much always agree with you. And I'm a firm believer that coaches don't get enough credit in wins and take too much blame in losses. BUT I don't think Archie has a clean slate here. 

1. No adjustments were made in the 2nd half. They were one dimensional and Illinois' main goal was to prevent the post feed - and they executed it.. IU didn't seem to have a back up plan.

2. shooting and FT%. This is an ongoing problem, but the percentages are down universally amongst the players who played under both Crean and Archie. It's more than a coincidence at this point. Our supposed best shooters, Colin and Rob's, shots look horrible. Colin is always falling backwards and Rob is always falling to the left. They look like freaking bowling pins out there. Rob actually looks worse when he's spotting up than when he's stopping an popping. The only thing that can explain the shooting woes is lack of repetition and/or lack of a shooting coach to catch these bad habits and improve them. I don't know. Maybe Archie is spending more time on defense and turnovers, which to his credit are improving, but no NCAA team should be shooting this bad from the line. 

I still think Archie is our guy, but he shares a lot of the blame here. 

i have to disagree with you.  To your first point, what did you want us to do, keep shooting from outside because that's our strong suit?  Morgan was our best player last night (no surprise), and we had to keep trying to feed the post and will have to be able to in the future as well.  It may not seem like there was a"back up plan", but planning something you know you're going to fail at (outside shooting), isn't really a plan either.  To your second point, I don't think we have spent a lot of time on free throw shooting, and it shows.  With the lack of time coaches get to spend with their players in the offseason,  I don't doubt for a second that CAM has purely focused on installing his system and working on defense and turnovers.  He's really only be able to work with these guys since October.  Is that a fault of CAM's?  I don't think so, it's just the nature of a new coach taking over.  Free throws are fixable, but getting your system installed and players comfortable with it comes first IMO.  It sets the foundation for the future.

[Hoosier82]

12 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

That fourth turnover was a chuck out of bounds, so I guess you’re right, he only chucked it out of bounds twice, not three times.  I was wrong, Josh really is an all-time great.

I look forward to the days where we don’t have people making excuses for awful players like this.

Even if I'm wrong and he did chuck the 4th out of bounds your statement is still incorrect and Green had just as many bad/avoidable turnovers as Newkirk. McBob takes part of the blame for the first ball out of bounds as he changed direction as Josh was making the pass. I'm not making excuses for Newkirk's play, he didn't have a great game. I'm making a case for why I'd trust him in the final 8 seconds of a close game on the road vs Green. Green isn't better than Newkirk so if you're calling him awful you're calling Green awful. Down 2 points with 8 seconds left and no time outs is not a situation a turnover prone sophomore should be put in over a slightly less turnover prone senior. 

[BGleas]

44 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I pretty much always agree with you. And I'm a firm believer that coaches don't get enough credit in wins and take too much blame in losses. BUT I don't think Archie has a clean slate here. 

1. No adjustments were made in the 2nd half. They were one dimensional and Illinois' main goal was to prevent the post feed - and they executed it.. IU didn't seem to have a back up plan.

2. shooting and FT%. This is an ongoing problem, but the percentages are down universally amongst the players who played under both Crean and Archie. It's more than a coincidence at this point. Our supposed best shooters, Colin and Rob's, shots look horrible. Colin is always falling backwards and Rob is always falling to the left. They look like freaking bowling pins out there. Rob actually looks worse when he's spotting up than when he's stopping an popping. The only thing that can explain the shooting woes is lack of repetition and/or lack of a shooting coach to catch these bad habits and improve them. I don't know. Maybe Archie is spending more time on defense and turnovers, which to his credit are improving, but no NCAA team should be shooting this bad from the line. 

I still think Archie is our guy, but he shares a lot of the blame here. 

Illinois wasn't really trying to prevent the post feed as much as they were pressuring the wings to prevent the wing entry pass. We couldn't even get the ball to the wing. An adjustment would have been inverting the offense so our bigs were out front and then having our guards screen for each other to get open on the wing. We also moved to more of a pick and roll game with Morgan and Green to try and free our guards up, but our wings were doing very little to help them out and get open for the wing entry.

But regardless our guards were awful and not sure much would have helped them. We definitely made adjustments defensively, as we per usual we switched RoJo to Frazier in the second half, and he pretty stopped his first half onslaught. 

On the shooting, Colin and RoJo have always been inconsistent shooters. Colin shot 35.8% two years ago, which is solid but it's not like he's Hulls, JBJ, or Zeisloft shooting the ball, and he'ss coming off his second knee injury. RoJo was awful shooting the second half of last season and has always been streaky. Newkirk has always been an average, streaky shooter, same with Green and Morgan (from deep), and Durham was billed as a poor shooter coming out. 

The free throw shooting is terrible and cost us the game. But again, RoJo has always been an inconsistent free throw shooter, same with Morgan and Green. Yes the numbers are down, but it's not like these are great shooters that are struggling. They're inconsistent guys, and unfortunately due to the severe lack of defensive coaching the program has had, Archie has had to focus way more on that end. 

There is no JBJ, Hulls, Zeisloft, Yogi, Watford, etc. on this team. I'm not sure how that's Archie's fault?

 

[tdhoosier]

 

Our shooting in a nutshell. (Collin's %'s are taken from 2015-16)

FT%
	2016-17	2017-18	Difference
Johnson	75.5	77.8	2.3
Newkirk	69.8	77.8	8
Morgan	73.9	65.1	-8.8
Green	72	71.7	-0.3
McSwain	62.5	54.3	-8.2
Hartman	84	64.3	-19.7
		Total (avg.)	-4.45
FG%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	44.9	42.9	-2
Newkirk	43.8	41	-2.8
Morgan	54.8	59.8	5
Green	44.3	32.2	-12.1
McSwain	55.2	43.4	-11.8
Hartman	45.1	42.3	-2.8
		Total (avg.)	-4.416666667
3%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	37	34.2	-2.8
Newkirk	38	36.1	-1.9
Morgan	25	26.7	1.7
Green	35	26.9	-8.1
McSwain	0	0	0
Hartman	35.8	28.3	-7.5
		Total (avg.)	-3.1

[Hoosier82]

25 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

A thought did occur to me last night.  Do we miss having the “shot doctor” on staff?

When I played in HS the "shot doctor" was a puke bucket under the basket and performances like last night (I should say "similar to" because I've never played for a team who shot this bad from the line and would definitely fake the flu the next day if we ever had a game with that many missed free throws) would have ensured it would be put to good use in the next practice. We did have Billy Keller come in once to discuss posture, hand placement and rotation....Green could definitely benefit from a session with him. I hear he still does private lessons up in Carmel. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

14 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

 

Our shooting in a nutshell. (Collin's %'s are taken from 2015-16)

FT%
	2016-17	2017-18	Difference
Johnson	75.5	77.8	2.3
Newkirk	69.8	77.8	8
Morgan	73.9	65.1	-8.8
Green	72	71.7	-0.3
McSwain	62.5	54.3	-8.2
Hartman	84	64.3	-19.7
		Total (avg.)	-4.45
FG%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	44.9	42.9	-2
Newkirk	43.8	41	-2.8
Morgan	54.8	59.8	5
Green	44.3	32.2	-12.1
McSwain	55.2	43.4	-11.8
Hartman	45.1	42.3	-2.8
		Total (avg.)	-4.416666667
3%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	37	34.2	-2.8
Newkirk	38	36.1	-1.9
Morgan	25	26.7	1.7
Green	35	26.9	-8.1
McSwain	0	0	0
Hartman	35.8	28.3	-7.5
		Total (avg.)	-3.1

It does make one wonder why Rob's, Newkirk's and Green's outside shot percentages are all down. None are elite outside shooters, but Rob is a good 37% or better shooter (on 189 shots last season), his inconsistency this year though has downed that. He's at 34% now on 117 shots, so plenty of time/shots to raise his percentage, but it's needed sooner rather than later. Green has only taken 67 outside shots. Shooters need to shoot. It's possible that  reducing our outside shooting, moving away from outside shots, is hurting their percentages.

[tdhoosier]

13 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

It may not seem like there was a"back up plan", but planning something you know you're going to fail at (outside shooting), isn't really a plan either.  

I wasn't implying shooting the ball. I think that the guards should have broke them down off the dribble, drive and get fouled. Keep them honest. Green somewhat got it, RoJo (the guy I want shooting free throws) disappeared. In a game where free throw are deciding the outcome there has to be an effort to get the ball in the hands of our better free throw shooters. I'm not saying RoJo is going to hit them all, but I'd rather have him at the line than Freddie or Juwan. 

[tdhoosier]

49 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Illinois wasn't really trying to prevent the post feed as much as they were pressuring the wings to prevent the wing entry pass. We couldn't even get the ball to the wing. An adjustment would have been inverting the offense so our bigs were out front and then having our guards screen for each other to get open on the wing. We also moved to more of a pick and roll game with Morgan and Green to try and free our guards up, but our wings were doing very little to help them out and get open for the wing entry.

But regardless our guards were awful and not sure much would have helped them. We definitely made adjustments defensively, as we per usual we switched RoJo to Frazier in the second half, and he pretty stopped his first half onslaught. 

On the shooting, Colin and RoJo have always been inconsistent shooters. Colin shot 35.8% two years ago, which is solid but it's not like he's Hulls, JBJ, or Zeisloft shooting the ball, and he'ss coming off his second knee injury. RoJo was awful shooting the second half of last season and has always been streaky. Newkirk has always been an average, streaky shooter, same with Green and Morgan (from deep), and Durham was billed as a poor shooter coming out. 

The free throw shooting is terrible and cost us the game. But again, RoJo has always been an inconsistent free throw shooter, same with Morgan and Green. Yes the numbers are down, but it's not like these are great shooters that are struggling. They're inconsistent guys, and unfortunately due to the severe lack of defensive coaching the program has had, Archie has had to focus way more on that end. 

There is no JBJ, Hulls, Zeisloft, Yogi, Watford, etc. on this team. I'm not sure how that's Archie's fault?

 

All I'm saying is that Archie's hands aren't 100% clean. By your admission, free throws cost us the game and it's obvious that our free throw percentage has been down across the board. It's not just one player having a bad season....it's ALL of them. They obviously need to work on their free throws more; Archie needs to make a point of this because he runs the practices. The only players with a better % than last year are Johnson and Newkirk and they had a total of 2 attempts last night (which were made!)....IMO, Archie should've found a way to get it in their hands more. 

[Hoosier82]

5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

All I'm saying is that Archie's hands aren't 100% clean. By your admission, free throws cost us the game and it's obvious that our free throw percentage has been down across the board. It's not just one player having a bad season....it's ALL of them. They obviously need to work on their free throws more; Archie needs to make a point of this because he runs the practices. The only players with a better % than last year are Johnson and Green and they had a total of 2 attempts last night (which were made!)....IMO, Archie should've found a way to get it in their hands more. 

Green was 6-9 from the FT line (missing one front end). RoJo didn't attempt a shot from the line and the only player not to miss a FT was Newkirk who went 2-2

[cohete15]

42 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

 

Our shooting in a nutshell. (Collin's %'s are taken from 2015-16)

FT%
	2016-17	2017-18	Difference
Johnson	75.5	77.8	2.3
Newkirk	69.8	77.8	8
Morgan	73.9	65.1	-8.8
Green	72	71.7	-0.3
McSwain	62.5	54.3	-8.2
Hartman	84	64.3	-19.7
		Total (avg.)	-4.45
FG%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	44.9	42.9	-2
Newkirk	43.8	41	-2.8
Morgan	54.8	59.8	5
Green	44.3	32.2	-12.1
McSwain	55.2	43.4	-11.8
Hartman	45.1	42.3	-2.8
		Total (avg.)	-4.416666667
3%
	2016-17	2017-18
Johnson	37	34.2	-2.8
Newkirk	38	36.1	-1.9
Morgan	25	26.7	1.7
Green	35	26.9	-8.1
McSwain	0	0	0
Hartman	35.8	28.3	-7.5
		Total (avg.)	-3.1

Yes, those are the numbers... kind of.

You can't take an average of averages and say that applies to that group of 6. Volume matters. You're reallllly leaning on McSwain and Hartman's FT%. Hartman averages 0.9% FTA per game. McSwain is 1.7 FTA/game. Newkirk is 2.1, RoJo is 2.7, Green 2.2, Morgan 5.2. Yes the numbers are down, but if you average (your way) for the 4 main free throw shooters (Johnson, Green, Newkirk, Morgan)..they're actually +0.3. So, about the same. And really, it's Morgan pulling them down from being more + this year. Again, on the FG %, McSwain -11.8 carries too much weight. Green is a much higher volume shooter this year than last (almost 50 more attempts already than last year). I'll also add that you're getting a full season sample for 16/17 and not 17/18. RoJo could get his % up to 38 this year. Morgan was ice from behind the line early, and could finish at 30-32%. Hartman has had a bit of a shoulder thing, maybe he adds 3-4% still. 

I don't have the time to do the real averages, but those aren't correct as a cumulative average. 

While it sure doesn't seem like we shoot too well, I think we are ultimately just missing higher end talent that we have been able to lean on for buckets (JBJ, Bryant, OG, Troy, Yogi). Shooting for Collin...much like for McBob...is much easier when he's the 4th best shooter on the floor behind Yogi, JBJ, Zeisloft, RoJo (some games). 

 

[tdhoosier]

8 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Green was 6-9 from the FT line (missing one front end). RoJo didn't attempt a shot from the line and the only player not to miss a FT was Newkirk who went 2-2

My bad. I meant Newkirk (made the edit to the OP). But yes, Josh and Rob should've been attacking like Green was. 

[jblaz13]

1 hour ago, BruceDouglas said:

Ugly game, thanks to IU's FT shooting for helping us get the first W. Even so, we tried hard to give the game away. Can't wait to fast forward a few years when this game might actually be meaningful.

Welcome! 

I agree about the FTs. All of us saw this coming sooner or later since had Indiana had left so many points to be had on the court from the line, and also point blank range. IU will be fortunate if the next 3 ball games are even close.

[tdhoosier]

14 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

Yes, those are the numbers... kind of.

You can't take an average of averages and say that applies to that group of 6. Volume matters. You're reallllly leaning on McSwain and Hartman's FT%. Hartman averages 0.9% FTA per game. McSwain is 1.7 FTA/game. Newkirk is 2.1, RoJo is 2.7, Green 2.2, Morgan 5.2. Yes the numbers are down, but if you average (your way) for the 4 main free throw shooters (Johnson, Green, Newkirk, Morgan)..they're actually +0.3. So, about the same. And really, it's Morgan pulling them down from being more + this year. Again, on the FG %, McSwain -11.8 carries too much weight. Green is a much higher volume shooter this year than last (almost 50 more attempts already than last year). I'll also add that you're getting a full season sample for 16/17 and not 17/18. RoJo could get his % up to 38 this year. Morgan was ice from behind the line early, and could finish at 30-32%. Hartman has had a bit of a shoulder thing, maybe he adds 3-4% still. 

I don't have the time to do the real averages, but those aren't correct as a cumulative average. 

While it sure doesn't seem like we shoot too well, I think we are ultimately just missing higher end talent that we have been able to lean on for buckets (JBJ, Bryant, OG, Troy, Yogi). Shooting for Collin...much like for McBob...is much easier when he's the 4th best shooter on the floor behind Yogi, JBJ, Zeisloft, RoJo (some games). 

 

Agree that stats are a mixed bag and don't tell the whole picture. But you could also look at RoJo's stats for his entire career at IU and it's even worse because last season wasn't that great of a shooting season for him either. His 3% was 44.7% in 2015-16 and 38.8% his freshman year.

Maybe too much emphasis is being put on the totals and I shouldn't have put that in. My main point is that everybody except for Juwan is shooting at a lower clip this year.  

I guess we could go back and fourth about this all day. In general, via the 'eye test' shots look off and we are missing a lot of wide open ones. 

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

30 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

Yes, those are the numbers... kind of.

You can't take an average of averages and say that applies to that group of 6. Volume matters. You're reallllly leaning on McSwain and Hartman's FT%. Hartman averages 0.9% FTA per game. McSwain is 1.7 FTA/game. Newkirk is 2.1, RoJo is 2.7, Green 2.2, Morgan 5.2. Yes the numbers are down, but if you average (your way) for the 4 main free throw shooters (Johnson, Green, Newkirk, Morgan)..they're actually +0.3. So, about the same. And really, it's Morgan pulling them down from being more + this year. Again, on the FG %, McSwain -11.8 carries too much weight. Green is a much higher volume shooter this year than last (almost 50 more attempts already than last year). I'll also add that you're getting a full season sample for 16/17 and not 17/18. RoJo could get his % up to 38 this year. Morgan was ice from behind the line early, and could finish at 30-32%. Hartman has had a bit of a shoulder thing, maybe he adds 3-4% still. 

I don't have the time to do the real averages, but those aren't correct as a cumulative average. 

While it sure doesn't seem like we shoot too well, I think we are ultimately just missing higher end talent that we have been able to lean on for buckets (JBJ, Bryant, OG, Troy, Yogi). Shooting for Collin...much like for McBob...is much easier when he's the 4th best shooter on the floor behind Yogi, JBJ, Zeisloft, RoJo (some games). 

 

1.  RoJo is getting better, but he sucked early on which is killing his numbers.  But they are climbin

2.  Morgan is a beast and is the only reason we haven't lost every game this year.

3.  McSwain is horrible.  He can't Catch, can't shoot, and can barely defend the paint without fouling.  He is a decent rebounder.

4.  Hartman is exactly what he has always been.  A guy who will give you 5 points.  Not really understanding why everyone thought he was going to be this big 3 point shooter.  Should injury or not, he just isn't elite talent.  Never was, never will be.  We can stop making excuses for him.

5.  Green is at times the best passer and ball handler on the court.  But i don't think he has transitioned from where he was the best player on the court to being not even the best guard on the team.  Time and experience might turn him around, but i don't think so.  He always tries to make the most brilliant pass.  It works at time but mostly costs.

6.  McBob.  Loved that Zack shot the ball when open and even took it to the hole.  I want this every game.  5-10 points is all this kids needs to do with the rest of his game being just fine.

You are correct that these are all role players, other than morgan.  They all fit better in an offense that has 2 or 3 high talent players who can score from 3 or drive to rim.  It allows them to hover and hang out for the kick for open 3s.  But that isn't an excuse for them.  They are what they are.  They either adjust and become better, like Morgan, or they will continue to fall short on the court when needed. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

28 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

 

While it sure doesn't seem like we shoot too well, I think we are ultimately just missing higher end talent that we have been able to lean on for buckets (JBJ, Bryant, OG, Troy, Yogi). Shooting for Collin...much like for McBob...is much easier when he's the 4th best shooter on the floor behind Yogi, JBJ, Zeisloft, RoJo (some games). 

 

Right, space is huge. Add a JBJ, a Watford, and guys like Rob and Collin will shoot better, with more room to work with.

[Hoosier82]

39 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

My bad. I meant Newkirk (made the edit to the OP). But yes, Josh and Rob should've been attacking like Green was. 

Well Josh was on the bench and Rob, well Rob has issues attacking the basket. Anytime he does anything but catch and shoot I cringe and hope for the best but expect the worst.

[addictedtoIU]

3 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Anyone that knows what was going on behind the scenes knows that yes, it was all Crean’s fault. 

Crean should send a thank you note to Glass for putting him out of misery. He failed to bring in a real PG since Yogi; what we have now is undersized SG and combo guards. 

[Billingsley99]

5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It does make one wonder why Rob's, Newkirk's and Green's outside shot percentages are all down. None are elite outside shooters, but Rob is a good 37% or better shooter (on 189 shots last season), his inconsistency this year though has downed that. He's at 34% now on 117 shots, so plenty of time/shots to raise his percentage, but it's needed sooner rather than later. Green has only taken 67 outside shots. Shooters need to shoot. It's possible that  reducing our outside shooting, moving away from outside shots, is hurting their percentages.

My guess is CAM has seen the defensive deficiencies and focused a lot of time in those areas. I think CTC philosophy is more shots and possessions so to play that way in practice maybe we shot a lot more and maybe guys worked more in their own. Plus they had 3 guys leave early that demanded attention and now defenses can focus and force tough shots