slojoe Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: It's more like this team needs to make plays when he gets them the ball off a double team... Vitale said it, Coach Woodson said it... TJD is a substantially better passer this year than last. He's averaging almost 1 more assist per game than last year. If he has a jump shot at 15' or further out, he hasn't shown it consistently at this time. We have lots of guys that are scoring options, but we need 1 and probably 2 with X out to take over and be consistent scorers that require lots of attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cbp4IU Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Hoosier4Life53 said: The men need to take a serious look at the ladies team. They lose their best player in Berger and they plug in Parrish, and keep rolling to 11-0. With XJ out it’s time for the whole team to grow a pair, and for Galloway, Bates and maybe even Gunn to step up in a big way. The year Yogi led IU to a Big Ten Championship we lost Blackmon… I think losing Johnson will be big… But Hood-Schfino will step up. I think he’s just has to let the game come to him and Iu will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Huntnfreak said: Ok…..but where is that version of TJD? He can’t just play like that when his coach just got done chewing his rear end!!! He HAS to be ready to go every single night and he’s not!! That’s why he gets labeled as soft. Come on, that's not the only time he's played well...I was simply illuminating those games because of the "he always gets dominated" statements...He doesn't...Armando Bacot is a pretty good player, and Trayce dominated him...You can say, "Bacot was injured" but he hasn't missed any time since...went for 21 and 10 in his next game against Georgia Tech... Look, I understand...We're all pissed because of the Kansas game...we got smoked by a very good team in a gym where the visitor rarely wins...Got it...But as @mrflynn03 said, Coach Woodson is building a culture...The first step, and yes, scheduling Kansas and Arizona were done with his influence, was starting to put Indiana in games a blue blood should be in, rather than a bunch of mid level P6 or mid major games...We had to take our lumps Saturday, but long term, it's to our benefit... And to pile onto a kid that constantly gets double teamed and as @slojoesaid has increased his assist numbers this year because he knows he can't just charge into two or three players is BS...Very first play of the game against Kansas, he got doubled, found a wide open Miller Kopp, and Kopp missed...Happened more than a few other times too... We're only 11 games...11 GAMES into the season...Before calling it an abject failure, let's see what happens at least until the BTT... Edited December 19, 2022 by IUFLA 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntnfreak Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Come on, that's not the only time he's played well...I was simply illuminating those games because of the "he always gets dominated" statements...He doesn't...Armando Bacot is a pretty good player, and Trayce dominated him...You can say, "Bacot was injured" but he hasn't missed any time since...went for 21 and 10 in his next game against Georgia Tech... Look, I understand...We're all pissed because of the Kansas game...we got smoked by a very good team in a gym where the visitor rarely wins...Got it...But as @mrflynn03 said, Coach Woodson is building a culture...The first step, and yes, scheduling Kansas and Arizona were done with his influence, was starting to put Indiana in games a blue blood should be in, rather than a bunch of mid level P6 or mid major games...We had to take our lumps Saturday, but long term, it's to our benefit... And to pile onto a kid that constantly gets double teamed and as @slojoesaid has increased his assist numbers this year because he knows he can't just charge into two or three players is BS...Very first play of the game against Kansas, he got doubled, found a wide open Miller Kopp, and Kopp missed...Happened more than a few other times too... We're only 11 games...11 GAMES into the season...Before calling it an abject failure, let's see what happens at least until the BTT... I agree with what you have said, but let’s not forget…he is in his fourth season doing the same things as he did in his first!! All I’m saying is…he doesn’t bring any energy. How many “All American” players do you know that don’t play with energy every single night?? He is what he is at this point and it’s not hard to see it! With that said….I truly wish the Hoosiers would run the table from here on out!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 A couple of other things... I understand why people start threads like this, and I have no issue with them...I think @13th&Jackson is a great poster and just wants to stimulate the conversation...But it also opens the floor to trolls and some bad information... I mentioned Trayce dominating Bacot above, and I truly believe that that happened in part because JHS came out like a ball of fire and played like he CAN play...He's a freshman...He's going to be inconsistent, particularly against opponents that are better, more experienced players...RJ Davis and Caleb Love are a couple of pretty good guards, and he was taking Love to school...They switched their best defender, Leaky Black to Jalen, but he'd already opened up the middle for Trayce, got the crowd into it, and had his other teammates, notably X and Galloway, were feeding off of it big time... Now he's gotta learn to do that on the road... And fast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntnfreak Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Now he's gotta learn to do that on the road... Exactly…..can’t just get fired up at home!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Huntnfreak said: I agree with what you have said, but let’s not forget…he is in his fourth season doing the same things as he did in his first!! Disagree with that...A lot...He's vastly improved in all facets of his game since he got here... Surrounding him with a better cast is one reason...But I think he's also worked his tail off to improve...His passing and defense alone are miles above what they were when he came to IU... In the Kansas game he had NINE blocks...NINE...That's a helluva night for any big guy...But he only took 8 shots and made half of them...That's not on him at all, in my estimation... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Huntnfreak said: Exactly…..can’t just get fired up at home!! Oh, I agree...But it's an experience/learinng process I think...We've been to 3 pretty tough environments (Xavier, Rutgers, Kansas) but we were missing Jalen for 2 of those... I'm not saying he would have made the difference, but we have seen what he can do against big time competition (UNC). Not making excuses, as injuries are part of the game, and as Woody says "next man up" but I didn't expect us to go undefeated... Like I said in previous posts, let's see how we do in Iowa City on 1/5... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Until I know more about the health of X I’m not really changing my thoughts on this season. We still should contend for a Big Ten title, nothing I’ve seen changes that. If we do that, we should have a high enough seed that could set us up for a nice March run, which is as much about matchups as anything. Seasons are not decided in December… 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 37 minutes ago, Huntnfreak said: I agree with what you have said, but let’s not forget…he is in his fourth season doing the same things as he did in his first!! All I’m saying is…he doesn’t bring any energy. How many “All American” players do you know that don’t play with energy every single night?? He is what he is at this point and it’s not hard to see it! With that said….I truly wish the Hoosiers would run the table from here on out!!!!! Look man I was pretty dang disappointed with TJD Saturday, we all were. 13/6/9 blocks being a disappointment shows just how good he is. That’s truly amazing to have that be a bad game by his standards. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Am still excited for the season and think we have a good shot at finishing in top 4-5 of the B1G and win a couple games in the tournament. We got smoked by two incredible teams and wilted at Rutgers. We went 2-2 in the four non conf games I had circled and the young players need time to gel. If we are being honest, I drank the kool aid earlier in the season thinking we were going to waltz through the B1G and end up int he Final Four. We were “that good.” Well, we weren’t and we aren’t. I do want to see us in the hunt of the B1G title race. I don’t think we will be in the driver’s seat, but we should be in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lostin76 said: We got smoked by two incredible teams and wilted at Rutgers. I get that we did the home and home series with Kansas and will have them in Btown next year, but I wasn't really a fan of the scheduling with AZ and KS. I just don't think the program is there yet and losing by double-digits to top teams doesn't really accomplish anything. A lot of veterans on this team, so what benefit is there to proving to them that we aren't at that level? The losses don't help with fan support or recruiting. With the way the NCAA uses the NET to select and seed the tournament, I think IU could be more strategic in its scheduling. The Xavier game was a perfect NET game (will be a Quad 1 lock), but that was actually picked by the Gavitt Games. The NET really values road games, but you only need a road win over a top 75 team to get a Quad 1 win. Nobody wins in Allen Fieldhouse. Plus, by doing a home and home with KS you risk a Quad 1 home loss next year. I think they should schedule maybe 2 road games against teams that are likely to be in the 40-60 NET range and perhaps a neutral top 50 (but not top 5) every year. Those two road games would also help prepare for the B1G more so than playing at Allen Fieldhouse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 49 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Look man I was pretty dang disappointed with TJD Saturday, we all were. 13/6/9 blocks being a disappointment shows just how good he is. That’s truly amazing to have that be a bad game by his standards. The problem with TJD on Saturday is that he went awol when we needed him. Stats can be misleading. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, rico said: The problem with TJD on Saturday is that he went awol when we needed him. Stats can be misleading. Yeah I definitely agree that his energy wasn’t where it needed to be, especially in the first half. No one’s was, for whatever reason. KU did a phenomenal job of taking him away schematically, which we seemed to anticipate, and he let that impact his energy. In hindsight I wish we would have found a way to get him some easy buckets early despite the Kansas defense. Some lobs and PnR early to get him a couple easy buckets would have been great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 31 minutes ago, rico said: The problem with TJD on Saturday is that he went awol when we needed him. Stats can be misleading. 7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Yeah I definitely agree that his energy wasn’t where it needed to be, especially in the first half. No one’s was, for whatever reason. KU did a phenomenal job of taking him away schematically, which we seemed to anticipate, and he let that impact his energy. In hindsight I wish we would have found a way to get him some easy buckets early despite the Kansas defense. Some lobs and PnR early to get him a couple easy buckets would have been great. That's the issue...We didn't try...Vitale railed about it for half the game... He had 3 turnovers...there were 20 more that he was no part of... I guess he could simply work on his NBA stock and fire up 3s and mid-range shots, but that's not going to help the team unless he would all of a sudden start making them at a 40% or higher clip...But he knows that won't help this team win... No way I single this kid out as the reason we got killed in The Phog... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 I'm still bullish on tnis team and program trajectory. I also still believe we will finish in the top 4 of the b10. We ARE improved but our ceiling is not as high as some wanted to believe: maybe s16, even e8 with some breaks and peaking in March (neither are a cinch). The conference is, as always, a grind/roller coaster. Overall it's not especially strong this year, so we can compete for the title (pending multiple factors, especially the injury situation). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) As far as TJD is concerned.... Does he need to fight to get the ball more? sure. BUT his teammates need to get him the ball more. Is this the fault of the coaching staff or the players? both Plays need to be ran for other players so we aren't as one dimensional. It's interesting that we can get plays for others out of a timeout, but without direct guidance from Woody the team reverts into the same old: pass the ball around the perimeter until they can find an opening to feed it into TJD in the post. The problem with this strategy is that it forces TJD to being a back to the basket post player and TJD is not an effective back to the basket post player against legit bigs. He needs to face the basket and take his defender off the dribble, get alley-oops, roll off of screens. etc. So IMO, TJD needs to be used in more ways, more frequently. This falls on his teammates for not being able to create for any of the 4 other guys on the floor and the coaching staff for not preparing the team to run these 'alternate' plays. If the players can't do this instinctively, perhaps Woody has to tighten the reigns and call more plays from the sideline. Edited December 19, 2022 by tdhoosier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 12 hours ago, slojoe said: This team is substantially better than last year. Year KenPom # KenPom OE KenPom DE 21-22 48 95 24 22-23 17 30 23 There is only 1 B1G team rated ahead of us this year. But there are a handful nipping at our heels. We face 2 big challenges. First, opponents have figured out how to slow us down offensively. Second, we are losing X, a top player for awhile and maybe the season. The team and coaches have to meet those challenges. I predict 1-4 in B1G and 1 or 2 wins in the tourney. T-Rank sees it a little different, with IU at 27 (finished 28th last year). Probably feels worse this season because IU upgraded their non-conference schedule considerably. Shooting was always the question for me and while the 3 pt% is better, still not a high volume of shots taken. Obviously even though he's inconsistent, Johnson would be a big loss if he's out for a while. Seth Davis thinks it's panic time. 🤣: Indiana Lost, 84-62, at Kansas Again: no shame in losing in Allen Fieldhouse, especially under the circumstances. The Hoosiers lost veteran guard Xavier Johnson to an ankle injury early in the first half, and 6-6 freshman point guard Jalen Hood-Schifino was in no position to carry the load after missing the previous three games with a back injury. (He had 11 points on 2-of-11 shooting to go along with four assists and five turnovers.) Still, the margin of defeat (and the limited production from Trayce Jackson-Davis against an undersized Jayhawks squad) was demoralizing. The Hoosiers have now lost three of their last four games. The big concern moving forward is the status of Johnson. If he’s out for a while, then Indiana could be headed for a rough patch. It also makes you wonder if this team is snakebit when it comes to injuries. Not that fans tend to think that way. Panic Meter: 4 https://theathletic.com/4014928/2022/12/19/college-basketball-kentucky-indiana/ Lot of season left, from what I've seen IU is definitely upper half of the conference which is pretty much up for grabs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: T-Rank sees it a little different, with IU at 27 (finished 28th last year). Probably feels worse this season because IU upgraded their non-conference schedule considerably. Shooting was always the question for me and while the 3 pt% is better, still not a high volume of shots taken. Obviously even though he's inconsistent, Johnson would be a big loss if he's out for a while. Seth Davis thinks it's panic time. 🤣: Indiana Lost, 84-62, at Kansas Again: no shame in losing in Allen Fieldhouse, especially under the circumstances. The Hoosiers lost veteran guard Xavier Johnson to an ankle injury early in the first half, and 6-6 freshman point guard Jalen Hood-Schifino was in no position to carry the load after missing the previous three games with a back injury. (He had 11 points on 2-of-11 shooting to go along with four assists and five turnovers.) Still, the margin of defeat (and the limited production from Trayce Jackson-Davis against an undersized Jayhawks squad) was demoralizing. The Hoosiers have now lost three of their last four games. The big concern moving forward is the status of Johnson. If he’s out for a while, then Indiana could be headed for a rough patch. It also makes you wonder if this team is snakebit when it comes to injuries. Not that fans tend to think that way. Panic Meter: 4 https://theathletic.com/4014928/2022/12/19/college-basketball-kentucky-indiana/ Lot of season left, from what I've seen IU is definitely upper half of the conference which is pretty much up for grabs. Can't read it for free... Is there panic in Champaign over the Penn State beatdown at home? Hmmm? Losing at Kansas isn't anything to panic about... And just think, if Bill Self hadn't used Illinois as a stepping stone to a real blue blood, it coulda been Illinois! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 3 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: I get that we did the home and home series with Kansas and will have them in Btown next year, but I wasn't really a fan of the scheduling with AZ and KS. I just don't think the program is there yet and losing by double-digits to top teams doesn't really accomplish anything.... I think there is plenty to learn from playing those games. Way more than thumping (or in some cases, squeaking by) cupcakes which was the norm for the pre-conference schedule for so long now. People have been complaining about the cupcake schedule for years and years. Everyone called these games "measuring sticks" which they were and they showed that this team has a ways to go (it also showed that there are a lot of fans who need to come back to reality). If we lose a recruit because we lost 2 nationally televised games against top-10 teams then we really weren't in the mix with that player IMO. It sucks to lose and it really sucks to lose when the team doesn't compete but there is plenty for the team and staff to learn from this. Will they? We shall see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Back to the OP. This team, record wise, is where I thought they would be at before the season started. Difference being I had us losing to Carolina and beating Rutgers. However, I am still upset with the way we played at Kansas. I felt that a SS appearance was "due" before the season started and I still feel that way now. Overall I am happy with the job Woody is doing although sometimes I want to use my "armchair QB" super abilities to change some things I see on the floor. I don't know what the future holds for IU basketball. But I feel better about it now than I did a few years back. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said: a lot of fans who need to come back to reality Probably guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 Obviously not going to win with the amount of turnovers we had but I thought continuing to go over the top on ball screens with number 3 was a mistake because he lived in the lane and facilitated basically everything for them.. not sure why we didn’t just go underneath ball screens on him and keep him out the lane and make him shoot. He shot one 3 and it looked bad. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said: I think there is plenty to learn from playing those games. Way more than thumping (or in some cases, squeaking by) cupcakes which was the norm for the pre-conference schedule for so long now. People have been complaining about the cupcake schedule for years and years. Everyone called these games "measuring sticks" which they were and they showed that this team has a ways to go (it also showed that there are a lot of fans who need to come back to reality). If we lose a recruit because we lost 2 nationally televised games against top-10 teams then we really weren't in the mix with that player IMO. It sucks to lose and it really sucks to lose when the team doesn't compete but there is plenty for the team and staff to learn from this. Will they? We shall see. Not advocating for playing more cupcakes. Here are some teams that are 40-65 in the NET. Memphis, OK St, Colorado, NC ST, FL, Nevada, UNLV, Missouri, UCF. Those are winnable, but still challenging, road games that would still count as a Quad 1 road win. If you lose, it's a Quad 1 loss, but so is a loss at Kansas, that is almost a zero chance for a road win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted December 19, 2022 Report Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: Can't read it for free... Is there panic in Champaign over the Penn State beatdown at home? Hmmm? Losing at Kansas isn't anything to panic about... And just think, if Bill Self hadn't used Illinois as a stepping stone to a real blue blood, it coulda been Illinois! Yeah, that's why I pasted the IU part. The only other team he rated as panic-worthy was your favorites in Lexington. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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