Indiana Roster 2023-2024

[MSHoosier]

5 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

 

I am probably wrong on this take, and sure I will be proven so if I am. When I watch some of these other teams and players coming off the bench, I see them gradually get into the flow of the games. Make a pass here, run a play there, get a rebound or an assist. My perception with Tamar, and again I may be incorrect, is that he comes out guns a blazing. It almost appears as though he feels he needs to get shots up because he doesn't know how long he's going to be on the floor. Don't get me wrong, there have been some games where he works within the offense and does what he does best on that end of the floor...be a spot up 3 point shooter. But there are too many occurrences where he rushes or forces bad shots to the point where it's a head scratcher as to why he's on the floor.

I had the same impression. The thing I think needs to happen is that TB should  start over TG. I think its worth a try to see if TB gets into the game easier and earlier. TG then does what he does best, bring a spark.

Edited March 25, 2023 by MSHoosier

[IU Scott]

45 minutes ago, MSHoosier said:

I had the same impression. The thing I think needs to happen is that TB should  start over TG. I think its worth a try to see if TB gets into the game easier and earlier. TG then does what he does best, bring a spark.

I have always said if TG is one of our starters then we will not be a great team. He sho be player 7-8 and playing 15-18 minutes for him to be the most productive.  With our talent level we can use 3 new starters and have to over recruit our current players. If XJ is back then him and Reneau should be picks to start but the other 3 spots should be with new players. I hope Banks maybe can be the stretch 4

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by IU Scott

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I dont worry about the chemistry at all. These teams that are still playing are littered with transfers. 

We're going to have roster spots open and we're most likely losing 4 starters. Unless Woodson wants to take a big step back next season, which i doubt he does, IU is going to have to take in multiple transfers. 

If the current guys can't handle that, then maybe they're not the guys people are hoping they are.

It's Woodson's job to make sure the pieces fit and the chemistry/culture works. From everything I've seen to this point, I trust him to manage that. 

 

Those tweets have facts in them that are undeniable.  We need to concern ourselves with getting the RIGHT guys out of the portal as opposed to worrying if we are getting too many.  

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I dont worry about the chemistry at all. These teams that are still playing are littered with transfers. 

We're going to have roster spots open and we're most likely losing 4 starters. Unless Woodson wants to take a big step back next season, which i doubt he does, IU is going to have to take in multiple transfers. 

If the current guys can't handle that, then maybe they're not the guys people are hoping they are.

It's Woodson's job to make sure the pieces fit and the chemistry/culture works. From everything I've seen to this point, I trust him to manage that. 

 

Yes, including the fact that over half of those 19 starters play for 2 teams... Kansas State and Texas...

Look, no one has a problem with getting select guys out of the portal... But 5 or 6 is nuts... 

And, as I said, for every K-State I can show you 3 not so successful teams that went heavily into the portal... 

 

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Yes, including the fact that over half of those 19 starters play for 2 teams... Kansas State and Texas...

Look, no one has a problem with getting select guys out of the portal... But 5 or 6 is nuts... 

And, as I said, for every K-State I can show you 3 not so successful teams that went heavily into the portal... 

 

UNC coach and Cal both said this week they are going to change their recruiting and add guys from the portal. Its the times we live in now. You take a proven kid from the portal over 3 and maybe some 4 star high school kid who is unproven.

[KoB2011]

21 hours ago, BGleas said:

My thing with Bates is that he has to do more. At this point he's too one-dimensional, and even that one thing (3pt shooting) he is very streaky at. He has to defend and he has to be able to handle the ball and get to the basket and finish. 

Without those other skills, he's a situational role player and the reality right now is that this roster needs more then that at the wing and guard spots. 

With that said, I do wonder with continued development and an updated system (not having two bigs clogging the paint all of the time) how much different and maybe "unleashed" Bates might look?

I think for me, I need to see him scoring somewhere besides the three point line as much as I need to see the (continued) consistency on defense. He sure tries to shoot mid range shots and floaters but it is often really ugly. 

[KoB2011]

19 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Probably the most overlooked aspect on here with all the names being thrown around...

But I guarantee you not in Coach Woodson's book...

I don’t think it’s overlooked, we just can’t really know how the chemistry will be with new players with the information we have. 

[BGleas]

20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think for me, I need to see him scoring somewhere besides the three point line as much as I need to see the (continued) consistency on defense. He sure tries to shoot mid range shots and floaters but it is often really ugly. 

I'd also be curious to see with continued development and work, would Bates loom different to us in a different offense?

I think it was obviously the right play, but the reality is that our perimeter players have made some sacrifices with the offense centered around TJD. 

Does Bates loom different and more free in a free-flowing offense centered around the guards and wings?

[Inequality]

When a kid showed up with the ability to score the ball, other than Trace, he did what no one on the bench has been able to do. Trace is such a great team player that if anyone else can score the ball he will do what he can to assist. The offense was circled around Trace because for the most part, he was the only consistent choice. I don’t see the ability to run a free flowing offense with IUs roster of non shooter and non creators. I’d love to be hopeful but realistically I don’t see it.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Inequality said:

When a kid showed up with the ability to score the ball, other than Trace, he did what no one on the bench has been able to do. Trace is such a great team player that if anyone else can score the ball he will do what he can to assist. The offense was circled around Trace because for the most part, he was the only consistent choice. I don’t see the ability to run a free flowing offense with IUs roster of non shooter and non creators. I’d love to be hopeful but realistically I don’t see it.

I didn't completely follow your point there, so apologies if I'm misinterpret it, but my post wasn't about TJD being a good teammate or willing passer, etc. He was clearly both. 

But, we ran a two-post offense largely the last two years that was centered around TJD operating out of the right block, with another post typically also in the paint area. 

It was the right move for our personnel. But, it is not ideal for the way the game is played now or for perimeter guys to showcase their skills. The lane was almost always clogged. 

I'm just saying, maybe Bates looks different in an offense with one big that is largely setting ball screens and leaving an open lane for our perimeter players to get to the basket,etc. A more space oriented offense. 

 

[IUFLA]

31 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'd also be curious to see with continued development and work, would Bates loom different to us in a different offense?

I think it was obviously the right play, but the reality is that our perimeter players have made some sacrifices with the offense centered around TJD. 

Does Bates loom different and more free in a free-flowing offense centered around the guards and wings?

I think that's a great question.

We have 7 kids who are some point last year were in the rotation (and I realize Banks and Gunn are a bit of a stretch, but bear with me)...

XJ 

Galloway 

Bates 

Reneau 

Geronimo (and I'll include him, even if some think he's gone, until he IS gone) 

Banks 

Gunn 

People say they have to "show something" but you have to show it in practice and have time on the court to do so. I think Woody puts kids out there asking them to play within their game. I also think that's why Banks was getting minutes at the end... He did that. He tried to rebound and defend. He knew he wasn't going to be the focus of the offense and they were going to run few, if any, plays for him. I also feel like that's why Gunn and Geronimo lost minutes. They tried to do things outside of what Woody expected of them at this point.

Then you have the 2 new kids coming in. I think both are going to surprise us and see meaningful minutes this year.

So that's 9 at this point. Add Leal, who's gonna be on the team, and it's at 10. Let's see over the summer how this group progresses. I think a few will break out with not only time, but shots are available. As I said, if there are a couple of transfers that the coaching staff sees as a good fit, great. I believe in good competition for starting spots. But there's a balance to be had...

And I trust Coach Woodson to find it... 

Edited March 26, 2023 by IUFLA

[Inequality]

@BGleas yeah I’m just saying I don’t think Bates issue is the offensive scheme. Reps and flow help and I understand that but even being extremely high on the guy myself I think he is about as prime as he’s gonna get. Unless he is forced into a role where he has to shoot the ball a whole lot more I don’t see him contributing more than what he normally does. Sorry for long paragraphs. I’m cooking this kid some breakfast.

[btownqb]

One poor soul had TB ranked 27th in his class coming out of HS... 

Was much, much closer to 127th than he was 27th. Look at him through that lens. 

If he wants to move on, fine.. I'd prefer he stays though. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by btownqb

[Steubenhoosier]

12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think that's a great question.

We have 7 kids who are some point last year were in the rotation (and I realize Banks and Gunn are a bit of a stretch, but bear with me)...

XJ 

Galloway 

Bates 

Reneau 

Geronimo (and I'll include him, even if some think he's gone, until he IS gone) 

Banks 

Gunn 

People say they have to "show something" but you have to show it in practice and have time on the court to do so. I think Woody puts kids out there asking them to play within their game. I also think that's why Banks was getting minutes at the end... He did that. He tried to rebound and defend. He knew he wasn't going to be the focus of the offense and they were going to run few, if any, plays for him. I also feel like that's why Gunn and Geronimo lost minutes. They tried to do things outside of what Woody expected of them at this point.

Then you have the 2 new kids coming in. I think both are going to surprise us and see meaningful minutes this year.

So that's 9 at this point. Add Leal, who's gonna be on the team, and it's at 10. Let's see over the summer how this group progresses. I think a few will break out with not only time, but shots are available. As I said, if there are a couple of transfers that the coaching staff sees as a good fit, great. I believe in good competition for starting spots. But there's a balance to be had...

And I trust Coach Woodson to find it... 

I think the criticism of Bates is completely warranted and is based on what you said here… he did not play within his game. 

[Zuckerkorn]

31 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I didn't completely follow your point there, so apologies if I'm misinterpret it, but my post wasn't about TJD being a good teammate or willing passer, etc. He was clearly both. 

But, we ran a two-post offense largely the last two years that was centered around TJD operating out of the right block, with another post typically also in the paint area. 

It was the right move for our personnel. But, it is not ideal for the way the game is played now or for perimeter guys to showcase their skills. The lane was almost always clogged. 

I'm just saying, maybe Bates looks different in an offense with one big that is largely setting ball screens and leaving an open lane for our perimeter players to get to the basket,etc. A more space oriented offense. 

 

I'm very interested to see what our offense will look like going forward.  I'm not an X's& O's guy, but I think it's obvious that the systems (and personnel) the E8 teams run is more effective.  Nothing against Kopp, but as an example when I'd see him come down on offense and go to his corner like he had been put in a "time-out" it was hard to believe that it made life difficult for the other team's defense.  I realize it was a result of our 2-post offense (and personnel).

[IUFLA]

14 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I think the criticism of Bates is completely warranted and is based on what you said here… he did not play within his game. 

I think Tamar's role was defined a bit differently... Coach Woodson wanted him to shoot and defend.

I certainly didn't see what you suggested before in saying that Tamar came in "guns blazing." He was 6th among our players in shot attempts per game, and 8th per 40 minites. He improved his 3 point shooting from 30% as a freshman to 37% as a sophomore. He's probably the best FT shooters on the team, and toward the end of the year, his defense was at the very least serviceable. That's progress. And I expect to see more next year.

Was he inconsistent? Sure he was. But he had games where you saw the potential. And as he matures even more, I expect to see more of the games like MSU at home than what we saw in the tournament... At least from an offensive standpoint... 

Edited March 26, 2023 by IUFLA

[Rev_AK]

I think TB’s issue for taking shots was timing. He seemed to play with a weight on his shoulders, like he felt he HAD to score. My issue was never his volume of shots, but that he took so many ill-advised and poorly timed shots, imo

[Petertucky2]

22 hours ago, Coach Robby said:

Gonna piggy back off this…he has a child. (I know everyone knows this already) Far away. Transfer closer to home night ease his mind a ton. I just hope he makes the best decision for himself and his family. 

Oh, I figured they lived here maybe.  If they live far away that might be tough for him.  Wonder if he  hits a higher percentage when they attend games.

[rico]

7 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

I think TB’s issue for taking shots was timing. He seemed to play with a weight on his shoulders, like he felt he HAD to score. My issue was never his volume of shots, but that he took so many ill-advised and poorly timed shots, imo

If those shots would have went in we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Rev_AK]

1 minute ago, rico said:

If those shots would have went in we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Agreed to an extent. I just seemed to be yelling at the TV at Tamar more than most to slow down, or to not try to force the issue. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, Rev_AK said:

Agreed to an extent. I just seemed to be yelling at the TV at Tamar more than most to slow down, or to not try to force the issue. 

I know what you are saying.  Seemed like he missed a bunch of ill timed shots.

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

One poor soul had TB ranked 27th in his class coming out of HS... 

Was much, much closer to 127th than he was 27th. Look at him through that lens. 

If he wants to move on, fine.. I'd prefer he stays though. 

Tamar was a Shaka recruit. Will never know if Beard told him to de-commit. But either way, I don’t think he’d still be in the roster at TX

[Purdue7]

I still think there’s something there 

Maybe with the ball in his hands more he will flourish.

37% is solid 

with his length he should be better defensively 

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'd also be curious to see with continued development and work, would Bates loom different to us in a different offense?

I think it was obviously the right play, but the reality is that our perimeter players have made some sacrifices with the offense centered around TJD. 

Does Bates loom different and more free in a free-flowing offense centered around the guards and wings?

I don't think there is any question that a more open, free flowing offense would help our perimeter players. I know I said it during the season, but our inability to play small with just TJD and 4 perimeter players (Kopp at the 4) really hurt us IMO, but we lacked the depth and to some degree the type of players you'd want to do that with; we'd have gotten slaughtered on the board with our personnel. 

 

[Steubenhoosier]

I agree with the sentiment here and wholeheartedly understand the need to get better and more athletic players. I do think the entire dynamics of this year’s team changed when X went down. We did have the penetrating guard who could set up others. We would have had JHS playing to his strengths as a shooter instead of having to also take on the role of distributor. We would have had another 3 point shooter who could have gotten his own shot and opened the floor. We would not have had to put as much pressure on Bates, Kopp and Galloway to take/make shots beyond their skill set. We would have had a defender who could control the quick guards who gave us so many problems and who caused a myriad of problems for us including rebounding issues, foul problems and giving up easy points.

My point is that although it is a completely legitimate concern for CMW to improve and change how we play going forward, we were on our way this year had X not gotten injured and a lot of the concerns/complaints about this year would’ve gone away