IUBB Off-season 2023

[btownqb]

9 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I can barely remember how this started but Malik needs a body transformation.   Bottom line.  I'm sure Coach Woodson has relayed the same.  Sure kid, you want to reach the maximum potential of you as a player, then get rid of the baby fat and come in looking like Blake Griffin next year.  

All I said... "I think Malk+Ware is a more skilled, well-round duo than Race+TJD"... that does NOT mean I think they are flat out better. But I think with Malik+Wares skill sets and versatility compared to the other two... that players 1-3 will have an easier time going about their business. 

Youth/Inexperience will be there at times, for sure, though. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by btownqb

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Well that isn't how they look at it, pretty clearly. Maybe on the old 3pt line? 

Probably right and it probably comes from seeing IU best shooters shooting over 40%

[btownqb]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Probably right and it probably comes from seeing IU best shooters shooting over 40%

We aren't talking about best shooters. We are talking about a kid, outside of shooting, has probably the best "measurables" of any player we've ever had here and it's positionally based. 

I don't want Cupps shooting 30%... but my 7'1 guy that shoots 3 3s per game, yeah hitting one of those a game is big, especially just having the threat of it. 

[FKIM01]

18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me anything under 35% from 3 is pretty bad. 

Mathematically, 33.3333% from 3 = 50% from 2.  We're splitting hairs here, but it's easy for me to see why college coaches would be happy with 33% from distance and not really upset until it dips below 30%.

[Between2Halls]

 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, btownqb said:

We aren't talking about best shooters. We are talking about a kid, outside of shooting, has probably the best "measurables" of any player we've ever had here and it's positionally based. 

I don't want Cupps shooting 30%... but my 7'1 guy that shoots 3 3s per game, yeah hitting one of those a game is big, especially just having the threat of it. 

I wasn't really saying that for Ware and anything we get from him from the perimeter is a bonus. My thing is when I see names in the portal stating they are good shooters and see a stat line of 42 overall and 34 from 3, to me that is not a good shooter at all.

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Mathematically, 33.3333% from 3 = 50% from 2.  We're splitting hairs here, but it's easy for me to see why college coaches would be happy with 33% from distance and not really upset until it dips below 30%.

For me shooting 50% from 2 isn't that great either.

[Steubenhoosier]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

For me shooting 50% from 2 isn't that great either.

There are what, 350 or so Division 1 basketball teams. Just counting the starters, not including the guys that come off the bench , that’s 1750 players. Last season 89 of them had a FG% better than 50%. 73 players had a 3pt. FG% above 35%. I can guarantee that quite a few on the first list didn’t shoot much beyond 5 feet or so from the basket.

 I think you’re definition of what is a good shooter in today’s game is unrealistic 

 

[FKIM01]

10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

For me shooting 50% from 2 isn't that great either.

It's pretty typical.  Perhaps your expectations are just a bit high.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/two-point-pct

Only the top 20 D1 teams averaged 55% last year.  I'm curious what you would describe as "great" 2-point shooting?

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

There are what, 350 or so Division 1 basketball teams. Just counting the starters, not including the guys that come off the bench , that’s 1750 players. Last season 89 of them had a FG% better than 50%. 73 players had a 3pt. FG% above 35%. I can guarantee that quite a few on the first list didn’t shoot much beyond 5 feet or so from the basket.

 I think you’re definition of what is a good shooter in today’s game is unrealistic 

 

Probably true with the 30 second clock making a lot of bad shots being taken at the end of the clock. Plus coaches usually don't have them start the offense until about 18 seconds left on the clock. Plus only shooting 3's and layups you are getting a lot of contested tough shots. If you just try to get the first open shots the percentages.kigjt go up.

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

It's pretty typical.  Perhaps your expectations are just a bit high.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/two-point-pct

Only the top 20 D1 teams averaged 55% last year.  I'm curious what you would describe as "great" 2-point shooting?

I guess I was spoiled 92-93 season

Cheaney 58% from 2 42% from 3 

Greg Graham 56 from 2 52% from 3 

Bailey 49% from 2 41%from 3 

Alford freshman year 59% from 2 

These guys weren't shooting all layups

[IU Scott]

13 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

It's pretty typical.  Perhaps your expectations are just a bit high.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/two-point-pct

Only the top 20 D1 teams averaged 55% last year.  I'm curious what you would describe as "great" 2-point shooting?

66 over 53 but wadainly talking individual players especially if you are a big guy 

[KoB2011]

Percentages aside, it is significantly harder to guard a guy who can score at all three levels (Ware) than it is to guard that same guy in just his best areas.

Since we are ignoring height for some reason, Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson were not particularly good three point shooters. Both guys would have been significantly easier to guard if they didn't take three pointers, despite the fact that  their percentages for their careers amounted to less than 1 point per shot.

Jokic and Embiid are SIGNFICANTLY harder to guard as 5 men because they are okay from three and are wiling to shoot it.

If I'm an opposing big and I have to decide between contesting an X or Galloway shot at the rim, or getting out on Ware, that's a win for the defense no matter what I pick. Because I have to decide and have to guard the entire floor. We've seen 6 years now of having the paint clogged and how hard it is on guards trying to penetrate, it should be abundantly clear to everyone that having more space will be good for the offense. 

[bluegrassIU]

16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I guess I was spoiled 92-93 season

Cheaney 58% from 2 42% from 3 

Greg Graham 56 from 2 52% from 3 

Bailey 49% from 2 41%from 3 

Alford freshman year 59% from 2 

These guys weren't shooting all layups

I am not really on topic here, so I will issue myself a warning.

But dang, that just shows some of the talent we were blessed with. 

And Calbert? Those numbers while being focus 1, 2 and 3 on the opponents scouting report?

Ridiculously good.

 

[btownqb]

Oladipo was 59% from 2 for his career

64% from 2 his JR year

 

[btownqb]

17 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I guess I was spoiled 92-93 season

Cheaney 58% from 2 42% from 3 

Greg Graham 56 from 2 52% from 3 

Bailey 49% from 2 41%from 3 

Alford freshman year 59% from 2 

These guys weren't shooting all layups

Watford was 41% from 2 for his career and 42% from 3. He's a better shooter than anyone mentioned here, besides Alford. 

Btw, Alford was 44% from 2 his SR year. 

[KoB2011]

28 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I am not really on topic here, so I will issue myself a warning.

But dang, that just shows some of the talent we were blessed with. 

And Calbert? Those numbers while being focus 1, 2 and 3 on the opponents scouting report?

Ridiculously good.

 

Who gets to gives the mods a timeout when they're out of line? Asking for myself. 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, btownqb said:

Watford was 41% from 2 for his career and 42% from 3. He's a better shooter than anyone mentioned here, besides Alford. 

Btw, Alford was 44% from 2 his SR year. 

53 from 3 

No way Watford is a better shooter than those guys. 

[btownqb]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

53 from 3 

No way Watford is a better shooter than those guys. 

Everyone you named, not Alford. 

[IU Scott]

47 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Everyone you named, not Alford. 

No way possible that is correct, not even close

[Parakeet Jones]

Saw on twitter that we are hosting Harvard next season. 

[5fouls]

@IU Scottand @btownqb

Watford had a longer 3 point shot to deal with and played in an era when defenses focused on the 3 pointer more.  

Watford was a better long range shooter than Greg Graham.  Similar career impact between the two.

Watford was a better long range shooter than Bailey.  Damon, however, was a better overall player over the course of his career.

Cheaney obviously was the better player, and he was a superior overall shooter.  That said, if Cheaney played with the longer 3-point line and defensive schemes that Watford played against, I would call it a coin flip from 3 point range.  Cheaney must assuredly would still be the better player. 

[btownqb]

48 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

@IU Scottand @btownqb

Watford had a longer 3 point shot to deal with and played in an era when defenses focused on the 3 pointer more.  

Watford was a better long range shooter than Greg Graham.  Similar career impact between the two.

Watford was a better long range shooter than Bailey.  Damon, however, was a better overall player over the course of his career.

Cheaney obviously was the better player, and he was a superior overall shooter.  That said, if Cheaney played with the longer 3-point line and defensive schemes that Watford played against, I would call it a coin flip from 3 point range.  Cheaney must assuredly would still be the better player. 

Thats exactly how I view it. 

[Steubenhoosier]

Wittman shot 52.4 % from the 2 in his career and in the one year that the 3 was installed in his career he shot over 44%
 

Steve Green shot almost 54% from the field over his 3 years. He played before the 3 point era, but many of his shots would have been for 3 had it been a thing.

As much as Watford is endeared for the Wat shot, among other things, he couldn’t hold a candle to some of the elite shooters from IU’s past 

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

@IU Scottand @btownqb

Watford had a longer 3 point shot to deal with and played in an era when defenses focused on the 3 pointer more.  

Watford was a better long range shooter than Greg Graham.  Similar career impact between the two.

Watford was a better long range shooter than Bailey.  Damon, however, was a better overall player over the course of his career.

Cheaney obviously was the better player, and he was a superior overall shooter.  That said, if Cheaney played with the longer 3-point line and defensive schemes that Watford played against, I would call it a coin flip from 3 point range.  Cheaney must assuredly would still be the better player. 

Wasn't talking about just 3 point shooting but overall shooting