The “What are we selling to recruits” thread…

[IndyResident16]

24 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

you are so disconnected but cool. Keep believing it is 1987.  

you win, I believe you.  

So IU not having a granola station is the reason they aren’t getting big time recruits? I’m recently retired, I’ll go stand in the entrance of the locker room and personally hand out Raisin Bran if it meant landing some big time recruits but I’d be wasting my time as we both know that isn’t really how it works.

Surely it has nothing to do with a revolving door of incompetent coaches who can’t sustain any type of program success? I’m sure that doesn’t play a factor in any of this. Who am I kidding?

Edited April 22, 2023 by IndyResident16

[Initial79]

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

So IU not having a granola station is the reason they aren’t getting big time recruits? I’m recently retired, I’ll go stand in the entrance of the locker room and personally hand out Raisin Bran if it meant landing some big time recruits but I’d be wasting my time as we both know that isn’t really how it works.

Surely it has nothing to do with a revolving door of incompetent coaches who can’t sustain any type of program success? I’m sure that doesn’t play a factor in any of this. Who am I kidding?

I will avoid the easiest conclusion to your disconnection 

I addressed your granola station comment plenty. Way, way more than that. Not even close. Also not close to top on NIL. These SEC schools just keep killing everyone and they use that football money for BB. This is not 1987. Big money moving around, agents, companies, collectives etc. 

Like I said, you convinced me. You know more. 

[IndyResident16]

3 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

I will avoid the easiest conclusion to your disconnection 

I addressed your granola station comment plenty. Way, way more than that. Not even close. Also not close to top on NIL. These SEC schools just keep killing everyone and they use that football money for BB. This is not 1987. Big money moving around, agents, companies, collectives etc. 

Like I said, you convinced me. You know more. 

Arkansas and UT NIL collective’s for basketball don’t compare to Indiana’s. There’s no point in comparing them because it isn’t close. There isn’t a single person at either school who came close to making TJD money last year. 

[Steubenhoosier]

2 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

We’re not discussing the football program. We’re talking basketball. Kids aren’t committing to UT and Arkansas over IU because Arkansas has a juice bar in their locker room and IU doesn’t. They’re committing to those schools because they have entirely better coaching staffs in place who can sell their program a lot better than our current staff. This isn’t hard to figure out.

I will assure you if IU hired Eric Musselman he wouldn’t have an issue getting his pick of the litter in the portal, just like Arkansas will go back to being decidedly mediocre when/if he leaves just like they were in the 25 year span between him and Nolan Richardson and no amount of money, slushee machines, or Xbox game rooms are going to change that. 
 

Arkansas is not a basketball destination. They currently have a very desirable college basketball coach who can sell his vision on par with the best in the country. This is what it comes down to, plain and simple.

They do not have “entirely better coaching staffs.” They have a head coach who has been there longer than CMWand staff. When our staff has its own players in place and can play the style of game they want instead of being dictated by the players from the previous regime, then you can make a fair comparison. 
Unless, of course, you really don’t ever want to make a fair comparison…

[Initial79]

13 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Arkansas and UT NIL collective’s for basketball don’t compare to Indiana’s. There’s no point in comparing them because it isn’t close. There isn’t a single person at either school who came close to making TJD money last year. 

The collectives are not separate. The are all one. The more people love football and those schools, the more that gets pushed in. This leaves lots of extra money for BB. The Tenn. collective has a yearly target of $25 million. 

[13th&Jackson]

7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

They do not have “entirely better coaching staffs.” They have a head coach who has been there longer than CMWand staff. When our staff has its own players in place and can play the style of game they want instead of being dictated by the players from the previous regime, then you can make a fair comparison. 
Unless, of course, you really don’t ever want to make a fair comparison…

Unfortunately, waiting for a staff to have their players in place isn’t really a thing anymore. New coaches are coming in and turning over their entire rosters. Unseemly? Maybe, but it’s how it works now. 

[Initial79]

2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Unfortunately, waiting for a staff to have their players in place isn’t really a thing anymore. New coaches are coming in and turning over their entire rosters. Unseemly? Maybe, but it’s how it works now. 

Honest question, can you name one where that has worked and if it did, did it work to better and faster results than Woody has had in 2 years? 

I was thinking about this the other night and trying to think of any program that has turned faster. It seems like it really just depends on this year. They pull another solid guy or 2 and finish well Year 3 and he is right in line with the best, right? 

[Steubenhoosier]

3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Unfortunately, waiting for a staff to have their players in place isn’t really a thing anymore. New coaches are coming in and turning over their entire rosters. Unseemly? Maybe, but it’s how it works now. 

Yeah, I understand that. But did you really think that we’d turn over a roster to detract from what TJD brought to the team? Especially when he recommitted to year 4? It was a thing in this situation because of the All-American talent that the team was built around 

[IndyResident16]

7 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Unfortunately, waiting for a staff to have their players in place isn’t really a thing anymore. New coaches are coming in and turning over their entire rosters. Unseemly? Maybe, but it’s how it works now. 

And that’s exactly what Eric Musselman did. He was one of the original pioneers in exercising the transfer portal to build up his teams while at Nevada and had a ton of success in doing so. 

[IndyResident16]

20 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

The collectives are not separate. The are all one. The more people love football and those schools, the more that gets pushed in. This leaves lots of extra money for BB. The Tenn. collective has a yearly target of $25 million. 

Lol.

The bigger collective the more football players get paid. Don’t be silly. Arkansas and UT basketball players are not getting paid more than Indiana basketball players. 

[IndyResident16]

27 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

They do not have “entirely better coaching staffs.” They have a head coach who has been there longer than CMWand staff. When our staff has its own players in place and can play the style of game they want instead of being dictated by the players from the previous regime, then you can make a fair comparison. 
Unless, of course, you really don’t ever want to make a fair comparison…

If Woodson achieves half of what Musselman has been able to achieve in his first 4 years I’ll be pleasantly surprised as well as shocked. I just hope we make the tournament next year.

[13th&Jackson]

19 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Yeah, I understand that. But did you really think that we’d turn over a roster to detract from what TJD brought to the team? Especially when he recommitted to year 4? It was a thing in this situation because of the All-American talent that the team was built around 

What would TJD’s last two seasons have been with the addition of two shooters? I felt that not adding one or two shooters from the portal last year was the biggest mistake CMW has made. Instead, we carried a couple front court players who gave us little and left after this year. 

[Steubenhoosier]

11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

What would TJD’s last two seasons have been with the addition of two shooters? I felt that not adding one or two shooters from the portal last year was the biggest mistake CMW has made. Instead, we carried a couple front court players who gave us little and left after this year. 

Understand… slippery slope. Had he gotten rid of Geronimo and Duncomb, the message sent would have been that he’s “Creaning.” Was it better to send a message of stability or one that you could be recruited over in a heartbeat?

[IUFLA]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

What are you talking about? I made one post about the topic, and I don't even think it was you I quoted?

I made a reply to a specific post about style of play being why wings aren't coming here, and my opinion is that that is easily overcome and not really an issue. 

Misread who you'd quoted... My apologies... 

[13th&Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Understand… slippery slope. Had he gotten rid of Geronimo and Duncomb, the message sent would have been that he’s “Creaning.” Was it better to send a message of stability or one that you could be recruited over in a heartbeat?

Like it or not, the players wanted NIL and the transfer portal. Welcome to the world of every person working in a non-union position who can be replaced at any time. 

[FKIM01]

5 hours ago, IU Scott said:

It is like you come off as arrogant lnow it all and you won't listen to other people. I have been on message boards for years and have seen to many posters come on here out of know where. These posters want to act like they are the smartest and their opinion is the only one that is right.

Scott...come on, man...you're doing the same thing.  I agree with a lot of your opinions, but you really struggle to deal with opposing opinions.  It's obvious to me that you think people who disagree with you are wrong. 🤣🤣🤣

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

If Woodson achieves half of what Musselman has been able to achieve in his first 4 years I’ll be pleasantly surprised as well as shocked. I just hope we make the tournament next year.

Would you give it an effing REST already?!!  It's APRIL.

[IndyResident16]

4 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Would you give it an effing REST already?!!  It's APRIL.

I’m good.

[5fouls]

We are selling the opportunity to play in front of a unified fanbase.

[5fouls]

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.   

 

 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.   

 

 

5Fouls for the win

Edited April 23, 2023 by IU Scott

[btownqb]

Usually a big fan of a "flash and cash" situation. Not here though, good call @5fouls

Edited April 23, 2023 by btownqb

[Drroogh]

17 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Usually a big fan of a "flash and cash" situation. Not here though, good call @5fouls

[rico]

41 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.   

 

 

[13th&Jackson]

8 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.