The “What are we selling to recruits” thread…

[Initial79]

11 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.   

 

 

This post tells me that the majority are fully misunderstanding my perspective and reason for the things I have pointed out.

I have said repeatedly I trust the staff and feel patience is needed. There is not a single thing you said that I disagree with.

my entire point on NIL, Facilities etc. was people on here, other boards, Twitter etc keep saying “how did we lose 2 guys to Tenn.? How is Arkansas, Alabama etc seem to be the top destination for portal guys? These are all “football” schools.  Then this questioning is usually followed by 50% of people blaming the staff, Woody’s knee etc. 

I am trying to help provide insight into why this is occurring in general. That some players want that stuff and IU can’t compete there. But… and I have said this many times, Ware is a prime example of a recruit that didn’t want that. Been there, done that. There are plenty more like him. But yes, there are plenty players now days that choose schools for reasons that would make your head flip.

Hopefully this helps educate a few while also helping people see what you pointed out in greater detail, IT IS OK, we don’t need to be the right choice for every player we offer we just need talent that wants to be here. 

[kyhoosier29]

24 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

This post tells me that the majority are fully misunderstanding my perspective and reason for the things I have pointed out.

I have said repeatedly I trust the staff and feel patience is needed. There is not a single thing you said that I disagree with.

my entire point on NIL, Facilities etc. was people on here, other boards, Twitter etc keep saying “how did we lose 2 guys to Tenn.? How is Arkansas, Alabama etc seem to be the top destination for portal guys? These are all “football” schools.  Then this questioning is usually followed by 50% of people blaming the staff, Woody’s knee etc. 

I am trying to help provide insight into why this is occurring in general. That some players want that stuff and IU can’t compete there. But… and I have said this many times, Ware is a prime example of a recruit that didn’t want that. Been there, done that. There are plenty more like him. But yes, there are plenty players now days that choose schools for reasons that would make your head flip.

Hopefully this helps educate a few while also helping people see what you pointed out in greater detail, IT IS OK, we don’t need to be the right choice for every player we offer we just need talent that wants to be here. 

Or maybe Ware did choose “that” at IU. Maybe HE doesn’t agree with your assessment and feels in his opinion that IU measured up just fine in those areas. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Initial79]

12 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Or maybe Ware did choose “that” at IU. Maybe HE doesn’t agree with your assessment and feels in his opinion that IU measured up just fine in those areas. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Huh? He chose Woody and NBA development. No question. He decided that all the athlete perks at Oregon are not worth it.

hard to figure out what you are implying. I really thought this last reply was going to clear this up but I guess not 🤦‍♂️

[IUFLA]

SIAP but I was listening to the first edition of  "Outside the Locker Room" on @The Daily Hoosier and it gives some great insight of IU basketball, NIL, the transfer portal, and the whole experince of being an IU basketball player...Colin Hartman and Miller Kopp with other IU athletes (notably Makenzie Holmes) sitting down with them, and they take questions from the internet...Long, but a really good listen...

Miller Kopp's take on Woody is excellent...Says he's a "No BS" kind of guy that's not going to lie to you, not going to make promises on playing time, but just very straightforward and to the point...

I know that's the perception, but hearing somebody who's lived it say it, pretty much cements who at least I think our head coach is...

Edited April 24, 2023 by IUFLA

[kyhoosier29]

12 hours ago, Initial79 said:

Huh? He chose Woody and NBA development. No question. He decided that all the athlete perks at Oregon are not worth it.

hard to figure out what you are implying. I really thought this last reply was going to clear this up but I guess not 🤦‍♂️

HE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME VIEW AS YOU THAT OREGON HAS BETTER THIS OR THAT. Just because you think it’s better and most people probably would too doesn’t mean he sees it that way. Or yeah, maybe he just chose IU for Woody.  Do you know him personally? Did we read somewhere that Woody was the ONLY reason he chose IU? I don’t remember seeing that. But I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. Your words would probably go over better with people if you didn’t speak in condescending tones or like you knew the answers to everything. Just saying.

[Initial79]

35 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

HE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME VIEW AS YOU THAT OREGON HAS BETTER THIS OR THAT. Just because you think it’s better and most people probably would too doesn’t mean he sees it that way. Or yeah, maybe he just chose IU for Woody.  Do you know him personally? Did we read somewhere that Woody was the ONLY reason he chose IU? I don’t remember seeing that. But I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. Your words would probably go over better with people if you didn’t speak in condescending tones or like you knew the answers to everything. Just saying.

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

HE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME VIEW AS YOU THAT OREGON HAS BETTER THIS OR THAT. Just because you think it’s better and most people probably would too doesn’t mean he sees it that way. Or yeah, maybe he just chose IU for Woody.  Do you know him personally? Did we read somewhere that Woody was the ONLY reason he chose IU? I don’t remember seeing that. But I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. Your words would probably go over better with people if you didn’t speak in condescending tones or like you knew the answers to everything. Just saying.

It was the quote yesterday how he was here to educate us on this which pissed me off.

[IU Scott]

18 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

It is that you bring your opinion on things and make as fact without proving that.  It is your opinion that our facilities are way worse than some of those teams yet I actually showed someone's ranking of facilities. They had IU way ahead of Arkansas and behind UT by 10. You then debunked that post saying that guy had no clue what he was talking about about and just wanted clicks. The thing is you just bring opinions without showing where you got opinion from. What makes your opinion above anyone else. You have your opinion on what makes a great facility but other might see the same thing differently.

[Initial79]

Scott, I explained this is detail to you. I am not doing it again. The answers you seek were provided. 
 

I am sure you will take this the wrong way. Not my intention. 
 

We have choices in life to be open, learn from others and seek new knowledge or put our head in the sand. The world today is dominated by the latter. People dig deeper and deeper into their hole until they can’t see anyone beside those with the same opinions. 
 

You have built in beliefs about the program. You sought out “facts” that support your view rather than be open and seek new knowledge. You are not the only one doing this. 
 

again, you probably won’t be seeing me too much moving forward anyway. I won’t have nearly the time to be on here as my life gets back to normal. I used the down time to jump into something I care about and discuss.  Probably a mistake. 😂 All good. 

[NotIThatLives]

40 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

Thanks for bringing your perspective.   My childhood best friend's son is a stud track kid.  I asked him to chime in.  Very interesting take especially concerning Alabama.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Initial79 said:

Scott, I explained this is detail to you. I am not doing it again. The answers you seek were provided. 
 

I am sure you will take this the wrong way. Not my intention. 
 

We have choices in life to be open, learn from others and seek new knowledge or put our head in the sand. The world today is dominated by the latter. People dig deeper and deeper into their hole until they can’t see anyone beside those with the same opinions. 
 

You have built in beliefs about the program. You sought out “facts” that support your view rather than be open and seek new knowledge. You are not the only one doing this. 
 

again, you probably won’t be seeing me too much moving forward anyway. I won’t have nearly the time to be on here as my life gets back to normal. I used the down time to jump into something I care about and discuss.  Probably a mistake. 😂 All good. 

Where have you showed anything but an opinion. It is funny you wonder why you are not perceived on here kindly but every post should make more clear. You act like you are doing is a favor coming here to educate us on things

  I have been watching IU and college basketball my whole life 52 years and don't need your pity by trying educate me.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Scott, I explained this is detail to you. I am not doing it again. The answers you seek were provided. 
 

I am sure you will take this the wrong way. Not my intention. 
 

We have choices in life to be open, learn from others and seek new knowledge or put our head in the sand. The world today is dominated by the latter. People dig deeper and deeper into their hole until they can’t see anyone beside those with the same opinions. 
 

You have built in beliefs about the program. You sought out “facts” that support your view rather than be open and seek new knowledge. You are not the only one doing this. 
 

again, you probably won’t be seeing me too much moving forward anyway. I won’t have nearly the time to be on here as my life gets back to normal. I used the down time to jump into something I care about and discuss.  Probably a mistake. 😂 All good. 

Don't let the door hit you on the backside. I did put you on ignore but still saw your post when people responded to them so I took you off ignore.aybe it would best to put you back on that list. Why don't you tell us who you are so we know how you  know whsy every facility looms like on the country 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

  I have been watching IU and college basketball my whole life 52

So what'd you think of George McGinnis?  

[Initial79]

8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Thanks for bringing your perspective.   My childhood best friend's son is a stud track kid.  I asked him to chime in.  Very interesting take especially concerning Alabama.  

Yeah, it does vary and it also depends. If they are a track athlete they usually take them through their section of the facilities. Not the BB or Football area. Depending on that, it would skew opinions greatly. 
 

for example, I have a kid committed to play D1 soccer. Memphis was one of the visits. If you look at their soccer section it is a dump. Big time. But their Football and BB which we asked to see at the end of the visit was way different.  That experience is just a very small part of the insight I have into this. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Initial79

[IU Scott]

Just now, IUFLA said:

So what'd you think of George McGinnis?  

Great player wish he would have stayed another  year under RMK. Also you know I was like 1 when he played at IU but watched him with the Pacers and the Sixers 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Yeah, it does vary and it also depends. If they are a track athlete they usually take them through their section of the facilities. Not the BB or Football area. Depending on that, it would skew opinions greatly. 
 

for example, I have a kid commuted to play D1 soccer. Memphis was one of the visits. If you look at their soccer section it is a dump. Big time. But their Football and BB which we asked to see at the end of the visit was way different.  That experience is just part of the insight I have into this. 

Would you mind sharing and ranking the schools you have visited?  

Edited April 24, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Great player wish he would have stayed another  year under RMK. Also you know I was like 1 when he played at IU but watched him with the Pacers and the Sixers 

I know...I did the math first...that's why I posed the question to "I have been watching IU and college basketball my whole life 52"

 

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I know...I did the math first...that's why I posed the question to "I have been watching IU and college basketball my whole life 52"

 

Also have done a lot of research on the past to learn what happened before my time.  To bad there are not older games in that era to watch so you could actually see some of the old players. That meant I was 52 years old but have been watching since I can remember which is around 1976

Edited April 24, 2023 by IU Scott

[Initial79]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Would you mind sharing and ranking the schools you have visited?  

Honestly, I would have but not now. It isn’t worth my time with the responses. fyi, I will say I have seen IU recently and all the areas. 

As someone from the outside, this board has certain names that just carry weight and they are easy to learn and see who they are fast. One of them just laughed at a post I spent a good bit to think through and try not to offend.  Talk about condescending and rich from a guy who made big predictions a few weeks back only to fall flat. We have another name who makes bold claims and condescending as well and not just to me. 
 

again, my life is getting back to normal soon and my leave to take care of my wife is ending. I’m good. Hope fans start to see some reality and stop believing certain things. It would help their stress level and allow them to be more patient with the staff. 

[NotIThatLives]

21 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Honestly, I would have but not now. It isn’t worth my time with the responses. fyi, I will say I have seen IU recently and all the areas. 

As someone from the outside, this board has certain names that just carry weight and they are easy to learn and see who they are fast. One of them just laughed at a post I spent a good bit to think through and try not to offend.  Talk about condescending and rich from a guy who made big predictions a few weeks back only to fall flat. We have another name who makes bold claims and condescending as well and not just to me. 
 

again, my life is getting back to normal soon and my leave to take care of my wife is ending. I’m good. Hope fans start to see some reality and stop believing certain things. It would help their stress level and allow them to be more patient with the staff. 

OK.  Well hope your wife is on the up and up.  This board can be territorial, probably because there is a large crew of long time posters that share more than just basketball.  We have encouraged each other through all of life's battles.  Loss and gain.  

Care to share where the kid wound up at?

[rico]

27 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Honestly, I would have but not now. It isn’t worth my time with the responses. fyi, I will say I have seen IU recently and all the areas. 

As someone from the outside, this board has certain names that just carry weight and they are easy to learn and see who they are fast. One of them just laughed at a post I spent a good bit to think through and try not to offend.  Talk about condescending and rich from a guy who made big predictions a few weeks back only to fall flat. We have another name who makes bold claims and condescending as well and not just to me. 
 

again, my life is getting back to normal soon and my leave to take care of my wife is ending. I’m good. Hope fans start to see some reality and stop believing certain things. It would help their stress level and allow them to be more patient with the staff. 

Don't be discouraged about posting.  I enjoy reading your stuff.

[kyhoosier29]

1 hour ago, Initial79 said:

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

I don’t think you’re getting it either. People appreciate the perspective, the experiences, and the OPINION. I’m not telling you you’re wrong. I’m telling you that it’s your opinion. Some people don’t see it the same way you do. Ware may not see the facilities argument that you see. Maybe he does and like you said he chose IU simply bc of Woody. But depending on what you’re looking for as a recruit or what fancies somebody your experiences aren’t the same. You saying it’s a fact because you’ve seen the differences doesn’t make it so. Apples to oranges on the orthopedic comparison. I was a D1 baseball player in the SEC and saw a lot of different facilities. There are pluses and minuses at every school and those are my opinion only. I’ve also been in Cook Hall and in the men’s weight room at IU, so I have a little bit of a reference too but doesn’t mean my opinions on them are fact. That’s all I’m saying. Too many variables to make an absolute statement. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited April 24, 2023 by kyhoosier29

[IU Scott]

44 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

Honestly, I would have but not now. It isn’t worth my time with the responses. fyi, I will say I have seen IU recently and all the areas. 

As someone from the outside, this board has certain names that just carry weight and they are easy to learn and see who they are fast. One of them just laughed at a post I spent a good bit to think through and try not to offend.  Talk about condescending and rich from a guy who made big predictions a few weeks back only to fall flat. We have another name who makes bold claims and condescending as well and not just to me. 
 

again, my life is getting back to normal soon and my leave to take care of my wife is ending. I’m good. Hope fans start to see some reality and stop believing certain things. It would help their stress level and allow them to be more patient with the staff. 

What bold prediction are you talking about 

Edited April 24, 2023 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

21 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

OK.  Well hope your wife is on the up and up.  This board can be territorial, probably because there is a large crew of long time posters that share more than just basketball.  We have encouraged each other through all of life's battles.  Loss and gain.  

Care to share where the kid wound up at?

I know this site helped me through COVID 3 times and help me celebrate my 3 granddaughters being born 

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, Initial79 said:

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

I encourage anyone that feels this way to reconsider the idea of not posting.  Everyone's opinion is valued, if not by everyone, at least by the majority.  

The number of posts someone has or does not have should not factor into how valuable the contribution is to the discussion.  

Personally, if I respond in disagreement to someone, I'm not doing it to dominate the discussion, I'm doing it to facilitate further discussion.

 I will say that I dont think the discussion on here is as good as it used to be. I'm not going to speculate on a root cause for that, but it is something I believe has evolved over time. Disagreement, when handled the right way, is the foundation of a good message board.

I wish we would/could have more in-depth discussions that dont result in one side or the other taking offense.