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THE BRIGHT SIDE


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4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Fool's errand. CAM and Glass think it's a bad idea. There's obvious reason for that. I couldn't disagree with you more, for the reasons noted, which you ignore. Enjoy your coffee. Enjoy PU....

Let me see here.  Practicing against each other vs. playing an opponent.  Hmmmmm.  

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The interesting thing about this debate is that both side are right.  Recently we have won two Big Ten titles and reached two sweet 16s.  This isn't nothing. However, we have also missed the tourney several times, done absolutely zero in the big ten tourney and been in the 2nd to 3rd quadrant of the conference.  On the whole, there has got to be at least 30 major programs that have performed to this level or better.  You could easily find 6-7 in our conference alone. Have we out-performed the following programs over the past 20-25 years:  Maryland, Michigan, MSU, Purdue, OSU, Wisconsin and possibly Illinois.  If we go conference by conference I think we don't have a very stout resume recently.  This is not to discredit the 3-5 season that were pretty good to great since the mid 90s, but there has been more bad than good.

With all this, I think we would not be foolish to be optimistic about the direction of the program.  Even if we don't land RL, I think next year will be better, and I fully expect to make the tourney.  I would like to be a final four pick within the next year or two, however I think if it is going to happen, it likely will be in 3-5 years.

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If the desire is to get the younger kids more playing time, and the concern is over sullying the program's reputation, then schedule an overseas trip this summer.

Seniors are gone so no worries there. Playing against different teams has to be better than seeing the same faces every practice. And the promise of a trip could be another selling point to certain, uncommitted recruits 

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I think one consideration has to be how beat up this team is, re: not accepting a CBI invite. Hartman is being held together with duct tape. DeRon is still on the mend, Juwan looks gassed from being the only consistent scorer, Rojo is checked out, we should have watched Newkirk in his last game already, and the rest are probably just ready to close the books on this one. But, if you accept an invite, the team still has to travel, be together after an up and down season, etc. It just seems like prolonging the agony to me at this point and may possibly aggravate any semblance of team chemistry that developed over the course of the season . I saw that someone suggested accepting and just playing the younger guys, but I'm not persuaded that this provides any kind of valuable experience to anyone. Call it a season. Move into the off season and regroup, analyze, plan, recruit. To me, that's a better investment of time than taking a CBI invite to "prove" it's not beneath us.  

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5 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Ridiculous. Those are regular season games. We're talking about the CBI. It would absolutely kill recruiting for IU to play in the CBI. If you don't see that, I don't know what to say to you. 

How, exactly, would it kill recruiting?

Matt Painter to recruit... "Indiana made the post-season last year, but it was only the CBI.'"

versus 

Tom Izzo to recruit ...."Indiana didn't even make the post-season last year".

Neither are optimal, but it's easier to spin post-season versus no post-season.  Especially when we're trying to sell how horrible the roster Archie inherited was.  Archie wouldn't, but he could technically say this to a recruit...."I inherited a cluster of a roster, had my only big man get injured, and I still coached the team to the post-season."

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

How, exactly, would it kill recruiting?

Matt Painter to recruit... "Indiana made the post-season last year, but it was only the CBI.'"

versus 

Tom Izzo to recruit ...."Indiana didn't even make the post-season last year".

Neither are optimal, but it's easier to spin post-season versus no post-season.  Especially when we're trying to sell how horrible the roster Archie inherited was.  Archie wouldn't, but he could technically say this to a recruit...."I inherited a cluster of a roster, had my only big man get injured, and I still coached the team to the post-season."

 

 

 

The last quote sounds weak. That's why Archie wouldn't do or say that. 

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6 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Ridiculous. Those are regular season games. We're talking about the CBI. It would absolutely kill recruiting for IU to play in the CBI. If you don't see that, I don't know what to say to you. 

It doesn't help recruiting when you get your a** handed to you by Fort Wayne,Indiana St,or lose to Rutgers in the BTT...or lose 15 plus games over the past two yrs

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

How, exactly, would it kill recruiting?

Matt Painter to recruit... "Indiana made the post-season last year, but it was only the CBI.'"

versus 

Tom Izzo to recruit ...."Indiana didn't even make the post-season last year".

Neither are optimal, but it's easier to spin post-season versus no post-season.  Especially when we're trying to sell how horrible the roster Archie inherited was.  Archie wouldn't, but he could technically say this to a recruit...."I inherited a cluster of a roster, had my only big man get injured, and I still coached the team to the post-season."

 

 

 

It could hurt if we played in the CBI and got bounced early.  Then the pitch could be “They couldn’t even win the CBI.”  

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58 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

It doesn't help recruiting when you get your a** handed to you by Fort Wayne,Indiana St,or lose to Rutgers in the BTT...or lose 15 plus games over the past two yrs

That has nothing to do with playing in the CBI. It’s a BS 3rd rate tourney that would only hurt IU’s image. There’s a reason the top tier programs don’t play in it. There’s a reason CAM and Glass want nothing to do with it (or for that matter Crean). Advocating for it is like saying let’s be a basketball program like a George Mason, a Nevada, etc. if you think that is what IU is simply because we’re rebuilding (again), I’ll just say I couldn’t disagree more and leave it there. 

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

How, exactly, would it kill recruiting?

Matt Painter to recruit... "Indiana made the post-season last year, but it was only the CBI.'"

versus 

Tom Izzo to recruit ...."Indiana didn't even make the post-season last year".

Neither are optimal, but it's easier to spin post-season versus no post-season.  Especially when we're trying to sell how horrible the roster Archie inherited was.  Archie wouldn't, but he could technically say this to a recruit...."I inherited a cluster of a roster, had my only big man get injured, and I still coached the team to the post-season."

 

 

 

Do you really believe this Fouls? You really believe the CBI is something you can spin to a recruit? I can’t and won’t believe that you actually believe that. 

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7 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That has nothing to do with playing in the CBI. It’s a BS 3rd rate tourney that would only hurt IU’s image. There’s a reason the top tier programs don’t play in it. There’s a reason CAM and Glass want nothing to do with it (or for that matter Crean). Advocating for it is like saying let’s be a basketball program like a George Mason, a Nevada, etc. if you think that is what IU is simply because we’re rebuilding (again), I’ll just say I couldn’t disagree more and leave it there. 

I can't help but think Jed Clampett must have moved into your neighborhood at some point.  

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Seems the sides of this discussion come down to image vs experience.

I hated that I liked Fouls long post on who and where we are as a program at this time.  However, I believe the risk vs the reward of playing in the CBI is too great.  If IU accepted the invite, do they 'have' to win it?  If they don't, what are the repercussions to the programs image?  To recruits?  To rival fan bases?  Donors?

The experience side of it?  How soon do we get to 20 games in conference?  Are those additional games or do they come at the expense of the OOC?

As far as my opinion goes, I believe we are only remotely better off not accepting the invite at this time.  5 years ago, I would have been vehemently against accepting an invite.  In 4 years, I hope to have that opinion again as we SHOULD be better than that year in and year out and we now have the coach to do this.  So my opinion will hopefully strengthen as the program collects wins.

 

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20 hours ago, 5fouls said:

The CBI discussion is related to the broader discussion about our status as a program.  Despite what happened 30+ years ago, IU is no longer an elite college basketball program.  We're not Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK, or even Michigan State or Villanova.   We are Stanford, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Notre Dame, Marquette, and Penn State. 

The banners are old.  The  balcony in Assembly Hall is empty for conference games.  And, we miss the tournament just as much or more often than we make it.  Those are not the trademarks of an elite basketball program.  So, we can continue to sit on our high horse, watch other programs pass us by, and be happy with 6th-8th place conference finishes and NIT bids, or we can start realizing that 'It's Indiana' just doesn't mean anything to today's generation. 

Romeo Langford is 18 years old.  He would have been 2 when IU played in the 2002 National Championship game.  And, even if he was a 2 year old prodigy and was able to follow that tournament, he would have understood that was somewhat of a fluke run to the Championship game.  There were some competitors and big hearts on that team for sure, but they still were fortunate to be there in the end.  The last time IU was truly relevant  for multiple seasons in a row were the Cheaney years. 

Are we too 'good' for the CBI?  No, we are not.  We are a CBI caliber team this season.  We were a CBI caliber team at the end of last season.  We were a CBI caliber team two years before that.  Seems to me that we are more CBI worthy than NCAA worthy these days.  1987 was a long time ago.      CCNY, LaSalle, San Francisco, and Loyola of Chicago have storied basketball histories as well.    That does not make them relevant today.

 

 

Good post...hard to dispute. But man, the truth stings a bit. Hopefully Archie is one the next best young coaches out there to return us to national relevance...

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11 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That has nothing to do with playing in the CBI. It’s a BS 3rd rate tourney that would only hurt IU’s image. There’s a reason the top tier programs don’t play in it. There’s a reason CAM and Glass want nothing to do with it (or for that matter Crean). Advocating for it is like saying let’s be a basketball program like a George Mason, a Nevada, etc. if you think that is what IU is simply because we’re rebuilding (again), I’ll just say I couldn’t disagree more and leave it there. 

1974

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