Duke Postgame Thread

[addictedtoIU]

2 hours ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

Unless Justin Smith plays like a #1 recruit the rest of the season, after these past 6 poor performances, he will def be back for his JR season.  Dude is too careless and sloppy. 

Not only he comes back for his Junior season but I think he's a typical 4-year college players. I was on Justin Smith bandwagon for some time, but I'm off the bandwagon. He needs to find his identity. If he doesn't want to mix up in the paint, he needs to work on his shooting and ballhandling. Otherwise, he doesn't contribute much in offense while still being a liability on defense. 

[HoosierMatty]

I think if this was a Crean coach teamed we would have more than two losses possibly. The Arkansas game their would have been zero fighting back like we saw. We would have lost that game by double digits.

[NotIThatLives]

9 hours ago, CSprings Hoosier said:

Romeo is a 3-man and not a 2-man, btw...tonight made that clear.

It definitely appears that is the case for now. 

[IU Scott]

First I am not saying Archie will turn into a HOF like these coaches but lets put some things into perspective.  I just looked up the records of these coaches who are in the hOF or probably will be and looked at their first two years at their respective jobs that made them a HOF coach.

 

Coach K 27-30  48%

Dean Smith 23-15 61%

Bill Donovan 27-32  46%

Jim Calhoun 29-33  47%

Archie 21-17 so far 56%

Just pointing out that just because your tenure starts out slow does not mean it can't change and turn into a great coach. 

[cohete15]

I need Saturday to get here immediately. 

I could have accepted a 120-85 beat down. Very difficult for me to accept a loss with so many unforced errors.

[SIHoosier26]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Duke did beat UK by over 30 on a neutral court and they were ranked in the top at that time so we at least fared better than they did.

Oh okay, at least we were closer than Kentucky you're right because that's all that matters. Duke didn't even play all that well and K took his foot off the gas. That being said, this isn't even about Duke, the team's looked lethargic for 2 weeks.

I honestly don't care about the box score or how much they beat us by, I didn't even watch the second half.

I expected us to get beat, even routed. What I didn't expect, was this team to show no chemistry, no sense of urgency, no effort, and the same lack of mental toughness that has plagued IU basketball for almost 2 decades. 

That isn't something that you can turn on/off when you want to, it's something that has to be developed in the offseason and early on in the season by the coaching staff. 

We are heading into December now and we have a 7 game stretch that will likely define our season. IU has better players than all 7 teams and 5 of those games are at home. Need to win all 7 or at the very least go 6-1 to have any shot at the tourney. This team is too talented to miss the tourney again.

If they show the same effort on Saturday as they did tonight then we will all be contemplating a home loss to Northwestern.

[Zuckerkorn]

20 turnovers is not a recipe for success.  But as bad as it is, remember that this occurred in a beat down loss to the best team in the country while we used to have similar numbers on a very regular basis just a few years ago.  Not excusing sloppy play, but I don't expect this to be the norm.  At least I sure as h*ll hope not!

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, 3Ballin said:

There, fixed it for ya.....👍

I'm down. Whatever it takes. Haha..

[bluegrassIU]

At least we aren't the only ones stinking up the joint.....

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article222261645.html

[Danomatic]

It was quite obvious that our younger guys, including Durham and Smith were intimidated by the environment. Romeo didn’t look overwhelmed, but he had moments of panic and anxiety as well. 

Don’t overreact to this... the effort was there, even if you think that it wasn’t. We had too many self inflicted turnovers and that’s due to a lack of basic basketball IQ and fundamentals. Archie and this young team will continue to grow. As fans, we need to understand this... if any of you have ever played or coached competitively with a large portion of underclassmen at any point, you should be able to relate. 

I’m simply saying relax, it’s a long season. If we have two other players the caliber of Romeo at different positions, we are neck and neck. That game exposed the talent gap, that’s it. If we work hard and continue to grow, as anticipated, we’ll be a much better team come March. Lots of growing pains are likely ahead, but you’ll have that. I predicted 7 regular season losses and I’m sticking to that number for now. I know that we haven’t looked great, but we will get better.

I'm sure coach is telling Justin Smith that he has to be stronger with the ball. Im sure that he’s reiterating to Fitzner that he needs to find an outlet, because he isn’t a ball handler. Im sure that he’s telling them all that they had 17 unforced turnovers and that has to change in order for them to get where they want to go.

[Steubenhoosier]

1 hour ago, slojoe said:

Duke is really, really good.

Cameron Arena is really,really hard to play in.

We are not getting better and perhaps getting worse.  Many B1G teams are whizzing past us.

20 Errors!  Barf.   Many of them just stupid.  For example, near end of 1st half Phinisee takes the ball over half court and attempts to pass to Fitzner who is standing still near the ten second line.  Williamson swoops in and steals the "pass" and goes in for an uncontested fancy dunk.

Defense.  What defense?  Not only could we not stop the dribble dunk, but we couldn't even land one hard foul on them.  Or at least that was so through the first 6 minutes of the 2d half when I gave up.

We were the "entertainment"  last night.

We didn't even put up any fight.

We're far from a top 25 team right now.

That is the line I disagree with from your post.

As I said several weeks ago, we are a team that made no tournament last year, and are relying on several freshmen to play meaningful minutes against a level of competition they have never faced before. Add to that, the environment last night being some of these kids first exposure to an intensity both on the floor and off that they have not experienced to the degree it was last night.

We are not getting worse. We are like most teams that have a similar makeup--steps forward, and unfortunately a step backwards now and again. Doesn't mean that we are being passed by, just means that we are inconsistent right now. Young kids will be. The hope is that as the season goes forward, the inconsistencies become less frequent. 

[Artesian_86]

I found some interesting stats  which, to me, sort of softened the blow a bit. 

• first half score - Duke 53, IU 29....enough said!
• second half score - Duke 37, IU 40.....Some positives here. Two things that stick out, it appeared that IU settled down a bit and better defense.
• first half turnovers - Duke 4, IU 13.....again, enough said!
• second half turnovers - Duke 10 , IU 7.....More positives, again....better defense.
• THIS LAST ONE REALLY SURPRISED ME!.....bench points - IU 31, Duke 15

Bottom line, ....say what you want about last nights poor showing, IU did not quit fighting. There is hope.

[bluegrassIU]

3 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I found some interesting stats  which, to me, sort of softened the blow a bit. 

• first half score - Duke 53, IU 29....enough said!
• second half score - Duke 37, IU 40.....Some positives here. Two things that stick out, it appeared that IU settled down a bit and better defense.
• first half turnovers - Duke 4, IU 13.....again, enough said!
• second half turnovers - Duke 10 , IU 7.....More positives, again....better defense.
• THIS LAST ONE REALLY SURPRISED ME!.....bench points - IU 31, Duke 15

Bottom line, ....say what you want about last nights poor showing, IU did not quit fighting. There is hope.

We played even against their 2nd team.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

First I am not saying Archie will turn into a HOF like these coaches but lets put some things into perspective.  I just looked up the records of these coaches who are in the hOF or probably will be and looked at their first two years at their respective jobs that made them a HOF coach.

 

Coach K 27-30  48%

Dean Smith 23-15 61%

Bill Donovan 27-32  46%

Jim Calhoun 29-33  47%

Archie 21-17 so far 56%

Just pointing out that just because your tenure starts out slow does not mean it can't change and turn into a great coach. 

Question about these stats.  Are these their first 2 year coaching, or their first 2 years at the  big time school jobs?

[IowaHoosierFan]

22 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I found some interesting stats  which, to me, sort of softened the blow a bit. 

• first half score - Duke 53, IU 29....enough said!
• second half score - Duke 37, IU 40.....Some positives here. Two things that stick out, it appeared that IU settled down a bit and better defense.
• first half turnovers - Duke 4, IU 13.....again, enough said!
• second half turnovers - Duke 10 , IU 7.....More positives, again....better defense.
• THIS LAST ONE REALLY SURPRISED ME!.....bench points - IU 31, Duke 15

Bottom line, ....say what you want about last nights poor showing, IU did not quit fighting. There is hope.

The bad thing about the 2nd half stats is that Duke and Coach K didn't step our necks and end it embarassingly.  I honestly think they could have pushed it to 30+ points had they wanted.  They could have kept up the full court press and in the last 5 minutes he had his starters on the bench.

There were positives though.  We did play somewhat better.  DD was a beast, although he still can't finish at the rim when fouled

[Danomatic]

7 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Question about these stats.  Are these their first 2 year coaching, or their first 2 years at the  big time school jobs?

At their jobs that made them Hall of Fame worthy. For example, K’s first two seasons at Duke.

[The Daily Hoosier]

Posted in wrong thread.  Relocating to a good home.

Indiana at Duke:  The Report Card.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/indiana-at-duke-the-report-card/

[NCHoosier32]

24 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

We played even against their 2nd team.

this is what i was going to say.  1st half was so lopsided that we played against their 2nd a lot.  sportsmanship made the 2nd half score look like that more than anything.  as far as bench points, that's not surprising to me either.  K has never relied on his bench much and that usually works out pretty well for him.  

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, SIHoosier26 said:

Oh okay, at least we were closer than Kentucky you're right because that's all that matters. Duke didn't even play all that well and K took his foot off the gas. That being said, this isn't even about Duke, the team's looked lethargic for 2 weeks.

I honestly don't care about the box score or how much they beat us by, I didn't even watch the second half.

I expected us to get beat, even routed. What I didn't expect, was this team to show no chemistry, no sense of urgency, no effort, and the same lack of mental toughness that has plagued IU basketball for almost 2 decades. 

That isn't something that you can turn on/off when you want to, it's something that has to be developed in the offseason and early on in the season by the coaching staff. 

We are heading into December now and we have a 7 game stretch that will likely define our season. IU has better players than all 7 teams and 5 of those games are at home. Need to win all 7 or at the very least go 6-1 to have any shot at the tourney. This team is too talented to miss the tourney again.

If they show the same effort on Saturday as they did tonight then we will all be contemplating a home loss to Northwestern.

We are looking like that because when you only had 6 or 7 players being able to practice it is hard to prepare.  it also makes the other players wear down and when that happens you will look lethargic.

[IU Scott]

15 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Question about these stats.  Are these their first 2 year coaching, or their first 2 years at the  big time school jobs?

It was the school where they became the HOF so it was coach K's first two years at Duke

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

this is what i was going to say.  1st half was so lopsided that we played against their 2nd a lot.  sportsmanship made the 2nd half score look like that more than anything.  as far as bench points, that's not surprising to me either.  K has never relied on his bench much and that usually works out pretty well for him.  

I wouldn't say that because Zion, jones and Reddish were all in there with 3 minutes to go.  The only reason Barrett was not in there was that he fouled out with 8 minutes to go.

[rico]

1 hour ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

Posted in wrong thread.  Relocating to a good home.

Indiana at Duke:  The Report Card.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/indiana-at-duke-the-report-card/

You grade on a curve?  LOL

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, addictedtoIU said:

Not only he comes back for his Junior season but I think he's a typical 4-year college players. I was on Justin Smith bandwagon for some time, but I'm off the bandwagon. He needs to find his identity. If he doesn't want to mix up in the paint, he needs to work on his shooting and ballhandling. Otherwise, he doesn't contribute much in offense while still being a liability on defense. 

Great post and I think 'identity' is a great word. Smith has no identity right now. I really don't know what he's good at? He's decent at some things, but has no one skill in particular that he's really good at that he can fall back on. He's a decent shooter, but not a really good one. He's got a good vertical, but I think calling him a great athlete isn't really accurate. His lateral quickness isn't there. It's easy for guys to go by him and he struggles to go by guys on offense. He's not a good ball-handler and he doesn't finish well. 

Right now he's just kind of like a guy out there on the court filling up space and time. 

If I'm Archie, I'm having a talk with Smith. I don't know if Smith is capable of this because he seems like more of a laid back guy, but I'd be telling Smith that his playing time going forward will be dictated by his rebounding. I don't know what the right number is, but say something like if he gets 8 rebounds next game then he keeps his spot, or make it 4 offensive rebounds. Maybe rebounds isn't the right stat, but the point I'm trying to make is that Archie has to find a way to get Smith to active, to be a junk-yard-dog. His play should be measured by getting on the offensive glass and creating opportunities for this team. 

First, this team needs that. Second, since Smith doesn't really have an offensive identity, getting him some easy baskets and having some success with activity could get his confidence going. But, Archie needs to find a way to turn him into an active type player and get his motor going. Either he responds and has a huge impact on this team, or you find out you can't use him. 

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

First I am not saying Archie will turn into a HOF like these coaches but lets put some things into perspective.  I just looked up the records of these coaches who are in the hOF or probably will be and looked at their first two years at their respective jobs that made them a HOF coach.

 

Coach K 27-30  48%

Dean Smith 23-15 61%

Bill Donovan 27-32  46%

Jim Calhoun 29-33  47%

Archie 21-17 so far 56%

Just pointing out that just because your tenure starts out slow does not mean it can't change and turn into a great coach. 

To add to this...

Tony Bennett (UVA) 31-31 50%

John Beilein (Mich) 31-36 46%

Tom Izzo (MSU) 33-28 54%

 

[3Ballin]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Great post and I think 'identity' is a great word. Smith has no identity right now. I really don't know what he's good at? He's decent at some things, but has no one skill in particular that he's really good at that he can fall back on. He's a decent shooter, but not a really good one. He's got a good vertical, but I think calling him a great athlete isn't really accurate. His lateral quickness isn't there. It's easy for guys to go by him and he struggles to go by guys on offense. He's not a good ball-handler and he doesn't finish well. 

Right now he's just kind of like a guy out there on the court filling up space and time. 

If I'm Archie, I'm having a talk with Smith. I don't know if Smith is capable of this because he seems like more of a laid back guy, but I'd be telling Smith that his playing time going forward will be dictated by his rebounding. I don't know what the right number is, but say something like if he gets 8 rebounds next game then he keeps his spot, or make it 4 offensive rebounds. Maybe rebounds isn't the right stat, but the point I'm trying to make is that Archie has to find a way to get Smith to active, to be a junk-yard-dog. His play should be measured by getting on the offensive glass and creating opportunities for this team. 

First, this team needs that. Second, since Smith doesn't really have an offensive identity, getting him some easy baskets and having some success with activity could get his confidence going. But, Archie needs to find a way to turn him into an active type player and get his motor going. Either he responds and has a huge impact on this team, or you find out you can't use him. 

If I am remembering correctly, you are suggesting that Smith fall into the role that Morgan had early on....want it more than the guys around you; find ugly ways to help the team.  Feel free to leave your shoulder in olace while you do it though.

HOLY CRAP that would fill a major void this team has.  Morgan and McBob make the ugly plays, but Morgan is more of a focus and the one taking the initial shot now and Zach is more out on the wing.  With his skill set, its a perfect role for Smith to fit into if he's willing to do so.