Duke Postgame Thread

[SIHoosier26]

2 hours ago, Danomatic said:

It was quite obvious that our younger guys, including Durham and Smith were intimidated by the environment. Romeo didn’t look overwhelmed, but he had moments of panic and anxiety as well. 

Don’t overreact to this... the effort was there, even if you think that it wasn’t. We had too many self inflicted turnovers and that’s due to a lack of basic basketball IQ and fundamentals. Archie and this young team will continue to grow. As fans, we need to understand this... if any of you have ever played or coached competitively with a large portion of underclassmen at any point, you should be able to relate. 

I’m simply saying relax, it’s a long season. If we have two other players the caliber of Romeo at different positions, we are neck and neck. That game exposed the talent gap, that’s it. If we work hard and continue to grow, as anticipated, we’ll be a much better team come March. Lots of growing pains are likely ahead, but you’ll have that. I predicted 7 regular season losses and I’m sticking to that number for now. I know that we haven’t looked great, but we will get better.

I'm sure coach is telling Justin Smith that he has to be stronger with the ball. Im sure that he’s reiterating to Fitzner that he needs to find an outlet, because he isn’t a ball handler. Im sure that he’s telling them all that they had 17 unforced turnovers and that has to change in order for them to get where they want to go.

I'm sorry I just don't buy this, the effort last night was abysmal. Justin Smith should be sat on the bench for the foreseeable future. One play after yet another careless turnover by him, he didn't even make an effort to get back and guard the fast break. He pouted the entire game and with the amount of turnovers that he had, there was plenty to pout about. There was another play where he was guarding Zion on the perimeter and he literally let him drive right around and just stood there, didn't even make an effort to get back in the play. He never blocked anyone out and he had countless rebounds he could've dove for, yet once again, he just stood there. The worst turnover he had last night was when he was driving in on a fast break and he had Green wide open for a 3 in the corner, instead he chose to try to posterize Trey Jones and got called for the easy charge.

My problem has nothing to do with them dominating us, I knew they were going to. It was that our team had no fight, put in no effort, and they all (including Archie) looked scared to death. Again if we bring the same effort on Saturday, Northwestern will expose us as well.

In terms of effort this is one of the worst performances I've ever seen out of an IU team,  they were already beat when they showed up at the gym. Absolutely embarrassing.

[Billingsley99]

I keep going back and forth as whether to post this or not but something with Smith has been bothering me and I just want to air it and see what others might think. At HH we had great seats and I began to notice something and it bothered me but I let it go and was just hoping I was wrong. Is there an issue between JS and RL? I think that he might be jealous of all the Romeo love and instead of showing that he deserves some I see him fading out of the picture.  At HH every time they announced RL or he got an ovation JS was rolling eyes shaking his head and looked disgusted and I did not see and conversation between them. Doing a couple of drills I noticed that players slap hands as they pass and those 2 did not any of the time. I hope that I am off base and like I said at first I thought is was an older player just not giving love to the rookie but after seeing that and seeing some things on the floor I have to wonder if JS is struggling being in the shadow of a Freshman.  maybe nothing but I am keeping an eye on it.

[FKIM01]

Well I DVR'd the game and promptly deleted it.  By that time, I'd read enough to know it was an ugly performance.  A few highlights were sufficient.  I figure if the players have to watch games like that as punishment, why am I voluntarily watching the game and literally wasting two hours of my life?  Instead, I worked on paperwork and made money with that two hours.

Sad thing is, I just about nailed the margin of victory.  It's not that I didn't expect Duke to win at Cameron and it's not like I didn't expect TV Ted to punish our players with ridiculous calls.  What bothers me the most was that it sounds like IU's players never competed.  That's a disappointment.  Get beat, fine.  At least make a respectable showing where Duke separates more as the game goes on.  It sounds like Duke hardly broke a sweat.

Pick up the pieces and move on.  Lots more film for the coaches to teach with.

[SIHoosier26]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Well I DVR'd the game and promptly deleted it.  By that time, I'd read enough to know it was an ugly performance.  A few highlights were sufficient.  I figure if the players have to watch games like that as punishment, why am I voluntarily watching the game and literally wasting two hours of my life?  Instead, I worked on paperwork and made money with that two hours.

Sad thing is, I just about nailed the margin of victory.  It's not that I didn't expect Duke to win at Cameron and it's not like I didn't expect TV Ted to punish our players with ridiculous calls.  What bothers me the most was that it sounds like IU's players never competed.  That's a disappointment.  Get beat, fine.  At least make a respectable showing where Duke separates more as the game goes on.  It sounds like Duke hardly broke a sweat.

Pick up the pieces and move on.  Lots more film for the coaches to teach with.

Trust me, you didn't miss much, they absolutely didn't compete.

[addictedtoIU]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Great post and I think 'identity' is a great word. Smith has no identity right now. I really don't know what he's good at? He's decent at some things, but has no one skill in particular that he's really good at that he can fall back on. He's a decent shooter, but not a really good one. He's got a good vertical, but I think calling him a great athlete isn't really accurate. His lateral quickness isn't there. It's easy for guys to go by him and he struggles to go by guys on offense. He's not a good ball-handler and he doesn't finish well. 

Right now he's just kind of like a guy out there on the court filling up space and time. 

If I'm Archie, I'm having a talk with Smith. I don't know if Smith is capable of this because he seems like more of a laid back guy, but I'd be telling Smith that his playing time going forward will be dictated by his rebounding. I don't know what the right number is, but say something like if he gets 8 rebounds next game then he keeps his spot, or make it 4 offensive rebounds. Maybe rebounds isn't the right stat, but the point I'm trying to make is that Archie has to find a way to get Smith to active, to be a junk-yard-dog. His play should be measured by getting on the offensive glass and creating opportunities for this team. 

First, this team needs that. Second, since Smith doesn't really have an offensive identity, getting him some easy baskets and having some success with activity could get his confidence going. But, Archie needs to find a way to turn him into an active type player and get his motor going. Either he responds and has a huge impact on this team, or you find out you can't use him. 

It'll be interesting to see how Archie will utilize Justin for the rest of the season. I found it was quite strange to see Justin not making eye contacts with reporters after UTA and UCS games. He was sitting next to his teammates and kept his head down for a long time (maybe reading something or pretending to read) while other teammates were ready and making eye contacts with reporters. I kind of sensed that he was losing his confidence already in early part of the season. Heart-to-heart talk with Archie seems to be a must. Otherwise, there would be a high chance he would keep regressing. By all accounts, he seems like a great kid, but he doesn't seem like someone who has strong enough personality and high-level of self confidence to overcome adversity by himself. 

[StLHoosier]

I think Justin started to believe his own hype, and thought all he needed to work on was his vertical this offseason.  I’m really disappointed that he doesn’t seem to be any better at shooting the ball, and he’s really not mixing it up in the paint like he did last year.  He’s definitely taken a step or two backwards.  I do remember him saying that they changed some of the offense this past year and players were adjusting to it.  Maybe it’s just taking him time to adjust?

[IUFLA]

47 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I keep going back and forth as whether to post this or not but something with Smith has been bothering me and I just want to air it and see what others might think. At HH we had great seats and I began to notice something and it bothered me but I let it go and was just hoping I was wrong. Is there an issue between JS and RL? I think that he might be jealous of all the Romeo love and instead of showing that he deserves some I see him fading out of the picture.  At HH every time they announced RL or he got an ovation JS was rolling eyes shaking his head and looked disgusted and I did not see and conversation between them. Doing a couple of drills I noticed that players slap hands as they pass and those 2 did not any of the time. I hope that I am off base and like I said at first I thought is was an older player just not giving love to the rookie but after seeing that and seeing some things on the floor I have to wonder if JS is struggling being in the shadow of a Freshman.  maybe nothing but I am keeping an eye on it.

Chemistry issues will kill a team as quickly as anything

[IUFLA]

Two other things about JS. First, is it me, or does he have terrible hands? I can't count the number of times, both this year and last, that he gets in the air and loses control of the ball, or clangs a dunk off the back iron...

The other is his "coast to coast" runs last night and in previous games. Now, from what I've read about Archie's offense, he wants guys getting defensive rebounds to quickly start up the court in transition. But the 3 or 4 times he did it last night, and I think only once it resulted in points (FTs), I'm screaming in my mind "pass it to a #$&$$ guard!" Same with Fitz. When he takes off up the court with the ball I cringe...

[rico]

15 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Chemistry issues will kill a team as quickly as anything

Why do I think Bracey Wright?

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

Why do I think Bracey Wright?

Same guy I was thinking of. When I lived in Chicago, my youngest daughter and I would go see IU/Northwestern every year at the Northwestern High Scool Crackerbox Arena (Welsh-Ryan). In 2004 we were standing at a concession stand that was in the hallway leading to the visitors locker room and see Tom Coverdale and (I'm guessing) his girlfriend. I talked to him for a moment, and about then, IU came off the floor from warmups. All the guys were happy to see Tom, but Bracey walked right by him without a word. Told me something about the year before.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Well I DVR'd the game and promptly deleted it.  By that time, I'd read enough to know it was an ugly performance.  A few highlights were sufficient.  I figure if the players have to watch games like that as punishment, why am I voluntarily watching the game and literally wasting two hours of my life?  Instead, I worked on paperwork and made money with that two hours.

Sad thing is, I just about nailed the margin of victory.  It's not that I didn't expect Duke to win at Cameron and it's not like I didn't expect TV Ted to punish our players with ridiculous calls.  What bothers me the most was that it sounds like IU's players never competed.  That's a disappointment.  Get beat, fine.  At least make a respectable showing where Duke separates more as the game goes on.  It sounds like Duke hardly broke a sweat.

Pick up the pieces and move on.  Lots more film for the coaches to teach with.

TV Teddy did not do our game

[INDenizen]

With JS, to me it seems like he is more concerned with what type of dunk he's going to do than just to score the ball. He thinks too much. For his vertical and athleticism, there is no reason for him to miss so many bleeping dunks or putbacks around the rim. He and Green have this tendency in common...how good can i make this look? Just make a layup!! Get the job done.

I wish you could blend JS's athleticism with McBob's fundamental, get it done mindset.

[IowaHoosierFan]

I think with Green and McBob back, you will see Smith go back to playing 15 minutes a game.  He will be the 6th or 7th guy off the bench.  He just needs to find his niche.  He isn't a 3 or a 4.  He kind of falls in between.  Not quick enough to guard the three and not powerful enough for the 4.  I don't don't exactly know where to put him but the bench seems like a good spot for now

[addictedtoIU]

34 minutes ago, INDenizen said:

With JS, to me it seems like he is more concerned with what type of dunk he's going to do than just to score the ball. He thinks too much. For his vertical and athleticism, there is no reason for him to miss so many bleeping dunks or putbacks around the rim. He and Green have this tendency in common...how good can i make this look? Just make a layup!! Get the job done.

I wish you could blend JS's athleticism with McBob's fundamental, get it done mindset.

I thought the same thing. JS+McBob is a first rounder. 

[Danomatic]

2 hours ago, SIHoosier26 said:

I'm sorry I just don't buy this, the effort last night was abysmal. Justin Smith should be sat on the bench for the foreseeable future. One play after yet another careless turnover by him, he didn't even make an effort to get back and guard the fast break. He pouted the entire game and with the amount of turnovers that he had, there was plenty to pout about. There was another play where he was guarding Zion on the perimeter and he literally let him drive right around and just stood there, didn't even make an effort to get back in the play. He never blocked anyone out and he had countless rebounds he could've dove for, yet once again, he just stood there. The worst turnover he had last night was when he was driving in on a fast break and he had Green wide open for a 3 in the corner, instead he chose to try to posterize Trey Jones and got called for the easy charge.

My problem has nothing to do with them dominating us, I knew they were going to. It was that our team had no fight, put in no effort, and they all (including Archie) looked scared to death. Again if we bring the same effort on Saturday, Northwestern will expose us as well.

In terms of effort this is one of the worst performances I've ever seen out of an IU team,  they were already beat when they showed up at the gym. Absolutely embarrassing.

I agree to an extent, especially on JS. However, I thought everyone else was giving solid effort, just not making good basketball decisions. Our defense was as poor as I’ve seen in the Archie era. Transition D was nonexistent. Juwan and Romeo weren’t great, but they didn’t have much support from the rest of the team either. I thought Al played ok at times, so did Davis. Davis is just too slow to be effective in transition. Our spacing was really poor in the first half, but got better after halftime. 

I just refuse to let one loss against the most talented team in the country at their place, be the end all defining moment for this team. Lots of teachable moments on tape for the players and staff. Hopefully they learn from this and move on. 

[IUDan93]

9 hours ago, rico said:

And the '88-'89 team says hello.

It is really nice of them to say "hello".  Did they say anything else?  I wasn't even aware that they knew me. 😁

[NotIThatLives]

12 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said:

I thought the same thing. JS+McBob is a first rounder. 

Doesn't McBob actually have a pretty impressive vertical?

[Danomatic]

As far as Justin Smith is concerned, I feel like it’s an internal issue. He has the body and ability, but it’s very apparent that he’s struggling from a mental standpoint. Perhaps he wasn’t ready to be thrust into a more prominent role? I don’t know, but I hope Archie has already recognized it and is addressing the problem. In order for this team to be as productive as we originally anticipated, we’ll need Smith to either figure it out, or drop in minutes so someone else can take advantage of the opportunity. I like Justin, but his demeanor has to improve and soon. As someone else previously mentioned, poor chemistry will derail a season in a heartbeat. It sounds like the team could benefit from some bonding/team building exorcizes. 

[rico]

3 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

It is really nice of them to say "hello".  Did they say anything else?  I wasn't even aware that they knew me. 😁

The point is that team staggered into Big Ten play.....just as the '80-'81 team did.  If you don't understand, I don't know what to tell you.

[OGIUAndy]

I think it's a little premature to panic. After all, it was a loss at Duke, who are arguably the best team with the best coach. Yeah it was pretty ugly, but most of the issues can be cleaned up. The D  (and team) was much better in the 2nd half. They missed a lot of open shots and turned it over way more than they will. Archie still seems to be figuring out his rotation. A lot of guys have been banged up. The best indicator will be the next month. I am confident they will get better. Aggression/confidence has been what's missing so far in my opinion. 

[SIHoosier26]

22 minutes ago, Danomatic said:

I agree to an extent, especially on JS. However, I thought everyone else was giving solid effort, just not making good basketball decisions. Our defense was as poor as I’ve seen in the Archie era. Transition D was nonexistent. Juwan and Romeo weren’t great, but they didn’t have much support from the rest of the team either. I thought Al played ok at times, so did Davis. Davis is just too slow to be effective in transition. Our spacing was really poor in the first half, but got better after halftime. 

I just refuse to let one loss against the most talented team in the country at their place, be the end all defining moment for this team. Lots of teachable moments on tape for the players and staff. Hopefully they learn from this and move on. 

Well it sure didn't look like it, and I've got to be honest if that was a "solid effort" we are going to be in a lot of trouble this year.

If IU brings that effort into Saturday Northwestern will walk all over us and then we will need to be worried.

 

[CapnRon]

I have a feeling some guys like Smith look different in practice going against our own guys, and Archie is quickly figuring this out now that people are getting healthy.  This is going to take a little time, but we will be alright.  Wish our fan base could be a little more positive, but I was really pleased with some of the posts I read on HSN. On to the next game.

[rico]

2 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

I have a feeling some guys like Smith look different in practice going against our own guys, and Archie is quickly figuring this out now that people are getting healthy.  This is going to take a little time, but we will be alright.  Wish our fan base could be a little more positive, but I was really pleased with some of the posts I read on HSN. On to the next game.

I think the fan base remains pretty much positive.  I think everyone thought we would get beat by Duke.  It was the two games leading up to it that most question.  The Duke curb stomping just added fuel to the fire.

[Hoosierhoopster]

I've been accused of being a glass half full guy 

Well, I am, but that said, I think we'll see good basketball and wins going forward with the team continuing to improve with Green and McBob back. At least one of them will probably start, if not both. They missed a lot of time, things were rusty, but they'll now be integrated back in, and we're going to be better for it. At close to full strength, and with the learning that will come from this game, we're going to be good.

[SIHoosier26]

9 minutes ago, rico said:

I think the fan base remains pretty much positive.  I think everyone thought we would get beat by Duke.  It was the two games leading up to it that most question.  The Duke curb stomping just added fuel to the fire.

It was the way we lost, not the score.