Jump to content

This will probably not be a popluar opinion


Recommended Posts

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

I just disagree that a rotation of Phinisee, Langford, Green, Smith, Morgan, Durham, Fitzner, Moore, Anderson, and Forrester, with admittedly limited contributions from Davis and McRoberts due to injury, isn’t enough to be safely in the tournament.   There’s more than enough talent (and yes, shooting) available on the roster to be much more competitive than we are right now.

Fair enough...I certainly hope we make the tournament and will be quite disappointed if we don't...

Where do you think we should be getting more from (particular players and positions)? and where do you place the blame for that shortcoming (coaching, fit, player)?

Just interested in hearing where people think we have room to grow and how we can grow in that area...

I look at Miller as having been caught in between being too controlling/critical and not being demanding enough...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Our fans can be crazy at times, but how many other places in the country would sell out their arena to watch a 6-25 team?

 

Poor administrative decision-making is why we've reached this point. It took a strong team effort from Myles Brand, Mike Davis, Adam Herbert, Rick Greenspan, Kelvin Sampson, Fred Glass, Tom Crean and Michael McRobbie to bring down what was once of the most powerful basketball programs in the country, but they pulled it off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said the fans were the only problem because there are a lot of problems but the fans need to take some accountability as well.  We all want the coach to be held accountable or the players but I feel that is is time for us fans to be held accountable as well.

Totally agree. Disagreement is one thing, but insulting others shouldn't be tolerated. How does this get a platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZs_NM3Cm8Y

There should be no tolerance for someone who calls others names, yells and raises his voice. It conveys to 15-25 year olds (and 50-70 year olds) that it is acceptable to disagree in this manner. It isn't. Ever. This isn't speaking with, it is yelling at.

BTW--the substance of D's comments is also highly problematic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

Totally agree. Disagreement is one thing, but insulting others shouldn't be tolerated. How does this get a platform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZs_NM3Cm8Y

There should be no tolerance for someone who calls others names, yells and raises his voice. It conveys to 15-25 year olds (and 50-70 year olds) that it is acceptable to disagree in this manner. It isn't. Ever. This isn't speaking with, it is yelling at.

BTW--the substance of D's comments is also highly problematic.

I agree with your overall point quite a bit. Dakich Saying that what Knight did was merely yelling at players is obscurantist at best.

Evaluating the points made by Dakich in that rant:

  1. Miller is too kind in his press conferences --> that is an odd point because all of Dakich's favorite coaches (Beilein, Holtmann, etc...take nearly the same tone in their after game comments) Moreover, if Miller called the players out I think it highly likely that Dakich would paint it as failing to take ownership and blame...Also, what is said in a press conference doesn't  seem to account for what may be being said to players face to face...I'd rather the coach speak directly to players than leverage the media as a coaching tool
  2. There should be former Indiana players on the bench --> Being a former Indiana player is not a magic bullet, but if you told me that Fife would really take at job as the top assistant at IU I think that they should make that move. If you told me that Lewis would return, I think the same could be said there...Cheaney too. Those are three guys that have been around a lot of great coaches and would also be able to recruit the state well...I don't know that you can make sweeping changes, but if those guys wanted to chance and you had an opening, I think it would be a very positive move.
  3. Langford is not being used well --> I think that you could argue that one ore two more wrinkles could be put in to free up Langford, but I disagree with Dakich saying that none of that has been done to this point...Probably the bigger problem is not the number of screens that Langford is coming off of, but the quality of scree...Our guys do not screen well IMO
  4. The bench should be used as a motivator --> I believe that Miller did that almost to a fault last year as players struggled to adjust from Crean affirming everything to Miller criticizing...
  5. Dakich said we don't have that much talent --> I agree to some extent...But doesn't he realize that goes against most of his criticisms of the coaching staff? If they are not that talented then why are we surprised they have had a losing streak?
  6. Dakich claims that because he went to IU and played (and sacrificed there) that he has the right to speak abusively towards people and not care about their reactions --> I do think that he speaks abusively BECAUSE he went to and coached at Indiana, he doesn't have the right to speak that way to people just because he went to IU and played and coached with Knight, but he was certainly shaped in that direction during those years...
  7. Indiana deserves a team that plays hard and plays smart --> agreed, but I don't think you can say that Miller is the sole reason that it hasn't happened...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Dakich fails to accept the concept that you can hold people accountable with firm instruction/expectations without embarrassing them through fear tactics. Admittedly, Knight was incredibly successful in his prime using the latter approach. I think both can be successful (see Brad Stevens, Jay Wright, etc.) and the more even-keeled leadership approach is likely more effective in today's culture on what is acceptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I could get WOWO for part of the year but in the winter could not get it and I was about 2.5 hours away from Fort Wayne.

I grew up in Gary.  And listened to IU games on WOWO,  when I was like 6 to 8 years of age.  Had a handheld transistor radio. That I would extend the antenna on. Had to keep adjusting it.  But the big thing about getting  WOWO for me, back in those days, was to wait till many of the local radio stations had to go off the air, once it became dark.  Back  then the FCC mandated that many stations had to go dark once the sun set.  Once that happened, WOWO came in good for me.

What probably happened for you was that WOWO most likely directed their signal away from you. I know that to be the case back then. As when I got into high school I was part of our school radio station, and we could direct our signal to reach into Chicago, rather than Southern Lake County.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, mchenry34 said:

Fair enough...I certainly hope we make the tournament and will be quite disappointed if we don't...

Where do you think we should be getting more from (particular players and positions)? and where do you place the blame for that shortcoming (coaching, fit, player)?

Just interested in hearing where people think we have room to grow and how we can grow in that area...

I look at Miller as having been caught in between being too controlling/critical and not being demanding enough...

Like you and just about everyone else, I’ve also been disappointed in Smith and Green.  Also frustrated with his unwillingness to play Moore, who should be having a bigger impact by now.  You might respond that those are all Crean’s guys, but Fitzner, Anderson, and Forrester aren’t.  If Archie needs “his guys,” then those three should be playing more.

He also needs to find a way to get the shooting figured out, both from three and from the line.  Guys like Phinisee, Durham, Green, Morgan, Fitzner, and Anderson are all capable shooters.  And shooting may not be his biggest strength, but Romeo shooting 22% from three and 71% from the line more than halfway through the season is just a huge disappointment.

I understand this isn’t all on the coaching staff, and it’s not a perfect situation as far as fit, youth, injuries, etc., go.  But there’s never going to have a perfect situation, and we’re also starting to see some issues that seem to have been trends for Archie.  The bottom line is, the coach gets paid $3M+ to figure these things out, and there’s more than enough talent to work with on this roster.  Other coaches have done far more with much, much less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Like you and just about everyone else, I’ve also been disappointed in Smith and Green.  Also frustrated with his unwillingness to play Moore, who should be having a bigger impact by now.  You might respond that those are all Crean’s guys, but Fitzner, Anderson, and Forrester aren’t.  If Archie needs “his guys,” then those three should be playing more.

He also needs to find a way to get the shooting figured out, both from three and from the line.  Guys like Phinisee, Durham, Green, Morgan, Fitzner, and Anderson are all capable shooters.  And shooting may not be his biggest strength, but Romeo shooting 22% from three and 71% from the line more than halfway through the season is just a huge disappointment.

I understand this isn’t all on the coaching staff, and it’s not a perfect situation as far as fit, youth, injuries, etc., go.  But there’s never going to have a perfect situation, and we’re also starting to see some issues that seem to have been trends for Archie.  The bottom line is, the coach gets paid $3M+ to figure these things out, and there’s more than enough talent to work with on this roster.  Other coaches have done far more with much, much less.

How does a coach, mid-season, get shooting figured out? Does he forgo game planning and just work on shooting skills? Would that figure it out—in an environment that is not the same as in game? IMO, this is on the kids to be working on their shot on their own. Best example I can give is Vic. He came to Bloomington raw and a below average shooter. Crean didn’t turn him into a good shooter. He did that through hard work.

If “ Archie’s guys “ were ready to play, he’d have them out there. Some freshmen are ready to play right away and others need some time to acclimate to a higher level of play. Thing is, a coach can’t know who is ready to play until he gets them on campus. That’s why I think star ratings are overrated. Every year 5 star kids struggle, some flame out. Every year lower rated kids achieve above their expectations. Just because they are “Archie’s guys “ doesn’t mean he’s going to play them if they aren’t ready.

Finally, what trends can you see in 1 1/2 seasons? Especially when this season has been marked with so many injuries. Especially when the team is still half recruited to play a totally different style of basketball. Archie’s time at Dayton doesn’t count. Different set of circumstances. Different team.

Your posts seem to have an air of impatience with the process of transition from Crean to Miller. I guess it’s your right to question what is going on now and find fault, which is easy to do as the team struggles. IMO, your criticisms are about 2 years premature. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

How does a coach, mid-season, get shooting figured out? Does he forgo game planning and just work on shooting skills? Would that figure it out—in an environment that is not the same as in game? IMO, this is on the kids to be working on their shot on their own. Best example I can give is Vic. He came to Bloomington raw and a below average shooter. Crean didn’t turn him into a good shooter. He did that through hard work.

If “ Archie’s guys “ were ready to play, he’d have them out there. Some freshmen are ready to play right away and others need some time to acclimate to a higher level of play. Thing is, a coach can’t know who is ready to play until he gets them on campus. That’s why I think star ratings are overrated. Every year 5 star kids struggle, some flame out. Every year lower rated kids achieve above their expectations. Just because they are “Archie’s guys “ doesn’t mean he’s going to play them if they aren’t ready.

Finally, what trends can you see in 1 1/2 seasons? Especially when this season has been marked with so many injuries. Especially when the team is still half recruited to play a totally different style of basketball. Archie’s time at Dayton doesn’t count. Different set of circumstances. Different team.

Your posts seem to have an air of impatience with the process of transition from Crean to Miller. I guess it’s your right to question what is going on now and find fault, which is easy to do as the team struggles. IMO, your criticisms are about 2 years premature. 

Crean absolutely did help turn Vic into a good shooter.  As far as I understand it, IU spent a ton of time working on shooting throughout the year.  I can recall multiple players referring to Tim Buckley (I think) as “the Shot Doctor” and talking about how much he helped them with their shot.  Totally disagree that it’s on the kids to be working on their own — shooting coaches are a huge part of the game at the highest levels.

The trends we’re seeing are terrible free throw shooting and the team shooting a low volume of threes at a poor/mediocre clip.  Saying his time at Dayton “doesn’t count” makes no sense... He got hired at IU because of what he did at Dayton.  When these issues have cropped up pretty much every year he’s been a head coach, it’s not a coincidence.  And he doesn’t appear to be prioritizing shooters at IU either.

And I am impatient when we have the best team we’ve had in three years and likely the best team we’re going to have for the next year or two.  We have the talent to be winning right now.  I don’t buy the argument that a coach should be absolved of any criticism for his first four years... Obviously you’re stupid if you think he should be fired before then, but it’s totally fair to criticize when the team is underachieving this badly.  On the other hand, I’ll be here to praise him when he hopefully manages to get this season turned around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think complaints on social media are an issue on recruiting. Eventually if not already at that point it will be like the little boy who cried wolf.  I'm sure kids know what they are getting into when they go play at a big time program.  I doubt they care about what a bunch of middle aged to old age fans on message boards think anyway.  

The real problem is the videos of players wearing gas masks to smoke dope. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I don't think complaints on social media are an issue on recruiting. Eventually if not already at that point it will be like the little boy who cried wolf.  I'm sure kids know what they are getting into when they go play at a big time program.  I doubt they care about what a bunch of middle aged to old age fans on message boards think anyway.  

The real problem is the videos of players wearing gas masks to smoke dope. lol

So you don't see it as a problem when Arman Franklin's mom and Keion brooks mom commented on twitter about how the fan base was reacting after the NEB loss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So you don't see it as a problem when Arman Franklin's mom and Keion brooks mom commented on twitter about how the fan base was reacting after the NEB loss.

I don't at all.  If they want to read that stuff that is their choice.  If they want to respond to it, that is their choice.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not in the exact same conversation but maybe in the spirit. We all know Brian Snow goes out of his way to bash all things IU. He's been an idiot in my book for years that somehow has a platform. What's funny is today is that Rabjohns is now following suit with them and in an indirect way telling Sterling that our facilities are dated or not unique,etc.....didn't think Rabby would go to these levels. Hope he has a good exit strategy lined up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Maybe not in the exact same conversation but maybe in the spirit. We all know Brian Snow goes out of his way to bash all things IU. He's been an idiot in my book for years that somehow has a platform. What's funny is today is that Rabjohns is now following suit with them and in an indirect way telling Sterling that our facilities are dated or not unique,etc.....didn't think Rabby would go to these levels. Hope he has a good exit strategy lined up. 

Also guys like DD going on his air waves and on national broadcast ripping IU doesn't help either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also guys like DD going on his air waves and on national broadcast ripping IU doesn't help either.

Dakich has been a windbag for years. Rest of the public is just starting to catch up. I was more surprised with Rabby. Like I mentioned earlier...Brian Snow has gone out of his way in his bashing IU. No surprise there. But Rabby? For example....watch the next big commit that IU gets. Snow will tweet out....so and so picks IU. But if another school in the area gets a big time commit he's full on article. His bias is so transparent. But do we expect from our journalists these days. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, rico said:

Why do you listen to him?  That is your choice.

I don't usually since I am at work during his show but sometimes at lunch his show is on.  Also it doesn't matter ifI listen to him but a lot of people do so it puts a bad light on the basketball program when a former player and coach does this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...