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Secret Scrimmage


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2 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I'm curious about this technical.  Any word or details?  

Here is some video Marquette guys have dropped.  https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/2019/10/20/arquette-bmeats-indiana-hoosiers-secret-scrimmage-indianapolis/4047478002/

It's like watching a recruit's highlight video. Got nothing to compare it with. I would bet ours would be much of the same but vice versa.

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12 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Coach ss post that you quoted, "Spoke with a pair of guys at the scrimmage and a few others who spoke with others who were there."

exactly. he did not say "WHO were at the scrimmage" which could mean WHILE at the scrimmage. in any event, just want to know the extent and veracity of his insider access

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14 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s like a broken record. He is many things. There is zero reason to call him a 3 

you keep saying that. is the only reason you say that is because he's not a good shooter? if he shot 44% from three, would you concede he is indeed a 3?

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3 hours ago, zerawkid said:

People who have been members of this community understand SS’s positioning in basketball and can vouch for him. Some people are able to share insight here with impunity because their reliability is generally proven.

and what is your understanding of his "positioning" in basketball?

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4 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Yeah I think he was the only guy that didn't though. 

I think that was what Aaron's dad said and I think they started Winston, Henry, Aherns, Tillman and can't remember the 5th.  I would bet that we have fans right now who are freaking out because we lost a scrimmage and blaming Archie for the loss.  I was just bringing this  up to show even what is supposed to be the #1 team in the country can lose in a scrimmage.

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2 hours ago, DWB said:

Read the Milw press article and viewed the Marquette version of video highlights.

Couple of things:

  1. Our defense is a long way from where it needs to be. Too many easy buckets for them without being contested.
  2. Surprised that Brunk and Smith got beat several times. Might not be their fault, due to poor help defense, but still...
  3. We lost the scrimmage on a last few seconds 4 point play, which means to me, somebody fouled a 3 point shooter at the end. The MU guy was 6-8, so I assume (maybe not correctly) it was one of our forwards.

If we can improve our defense (and I think we will) and continue to work on CAM's version of motion offense, we should be pretty good.

If IU's defense is a long way off, so is Marquette's shooting. 😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, coachv said:

you keep saying that. is the only reason you say that is because he's not a good shooter? if he shot 44% from three, would you concede he is indeed a 3?

Oh Lord. This has been beaten to death. No, 

He is not an outside shooter -- and of course he won't shoot 44% from 3. He has not shown the ability to handle the ball from the wing, as in the role a 3 plays, at any point in his IU career. He has not shown, at any point in his tenure at IU, the ability to play the 3. This is not to knock him -- we are talking positions -- he's a very good defender, and he has the ability to be a very good forward, call it a 4 but it's just a forward spot. Of course if he has improved, dramatically, over the summer into a reliable outside shooter and his handle in traffic, the ability to break down guys from the wing, then he could play the wing. 

So let me turn the question back to you. What, exactly, do you think he has shown to play 3? I mean seriously, what? Please don't say his D -- that's not playing the 3.

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4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh Lord. This has been beaten to death. No, 

He is not an outside shooter -- and of course he won't shoot 44% from 3. He has not shown the ability to handle the ball from the wing, as in the role a 3 plays, at any point in his IU career. He has not shown, at any point in his tenure at IU, the ability to play the 3. This is not to knock him -- we are talking positions -- he's a very good defender, and he has the ability to be a very good forward, call it a 4 but it's just a forward spot. Of course if he has improved, dramatically, over the summer into a reliable outside shooter and his handle in traffic, the ability to break down guys from the wing, then he could play the wing. 

So let me turn the question back to you. What, exactly, do you think he has shown to play 3? I mean seriously, what? Please don't say his D -- that's not playing the 3.

Long time listener, first time caller.

Do you think Justin Smith can see time at the 3 this year?

Love the show, I will hang up and listen.

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6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh Lord. This has been beaten to death. No, 

He is not an outside shooter -- and of course he won't shoot 44% from 3. He has not shown the ability to handle the ball from the wing, as in the role a 3 plays, at any point in his IU career. He has not shown, at any point in his tenure at IU, the ability to play the 3. This is not to knock him -- we are talking positions -- he's a very good defender, and he has the ability to be a very good forward, call it a 4 but it's just a forward spot. Of course if he has improved, dramatically, over the summer into a reliable outside shooter and his handle in traffic, the ability to break down guys from the wing, then he could play the wing. 

So let me turn the question back to you. What, exactly, do you think he has shown to play 3? I mean seriously, what? Please don't say his D -- that's not playing the 3.

Given the fact that Armaan seems like he'll be ready sooner than later I'm expecting a 3 guard lineup when Jerome is not on the court.

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29 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh Lord. This has been beaten to death. No, 

He is not an outside shooter -- and of course he won't shoot 44% from 3. He has not shown the ability to handle the ball from the wing, as in the role a 3 plays, at any point in his IU career. He has not shown, at any point in his tenure at IU, the ability to play the 3. This is not to knock him -- we are talking positions -- he's a very good defender, and he has the ability to be a very good forward, call it a 4 but it's just a forward spot. Of course if he has improved, dramatically, over the summer into a reliable outside shooter and his handle in traffic, the ability to break down guys from the wing, then he could play the wing. 

So let me turn the question back to you. What, exactly, do you think he has shown to play 3? I mean seriously, what? Please don't say his D -- that's not playing the 3.

To go along with the lineups used last year showing that he literally never played the "3",  ever.  

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2 hours ago, coachv said:

and what is your understanding of his "positioning" in basketball?

I do have a working understanding of what his connections are, but I won’t presume to answer for someone else. 
 

Here’s my suggestion: rather than rabble rouse in the middle of a topic about another member’s qualifications to comment on certain things, if you truly want to know, shoot him a PM. It’s up to him to decide whether he wants to share with you, and the thread doesn’t run the risk of turning into a pissing match.

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Everyone knows this is my favorite topic, so I'll jump in 😀.

For those that think Smith is a 3 (really a wing), how comfortable are you with him spending 20+ minutes per game in a role where he is coming off ball screens to penetrate, make decisions with the ball, handle it in traffic and be a play creator offensively? Not someone finishing from slashing to the hoop, but someone handling the ball off ball screens and being a decision maker with the ball in traffic and whether or not to shoot, penetrate or deliver it to the slashers. Because, that is what the wing (or 3) is responsible for. 

This is why so many of us are adamant that he's not a 3. Being a "3" isn't just shooting from the perimeter when you're open, it's being one of the core play creators and ball handlers. It's being a decision maker with the ball and a decision maker in traffic. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if he has improved in all of these areas and is capable of it. That would be great. But, not only has he not shown these skills yet, he's actually shown he's pretty bad at those skills. 

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27 minutes ago, Indykev said:

My take away from this. Who cares its meaningless.

"In other news, the Indiana University basketball team missed the NCAA tournament again this year. Indiana was tied with Marquette University in all ratings factors, but the Golden Eagles got the 64th and last bid because of a 3 point win in an October 'Secret Scrimmage' with the Hoosiers."

😁

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4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Everyone knows this is my favorite topic, so I'll jump in 😀.

For those that think Smith is a 3 (really a wing), how comfortable are you with him spending 20+ minutes per game in a role where he is coming off ball screens to penetrate, make decisions with the ball, handle it in traffic and be a play creator offensively? Not someone finishing from slashing to the hoop, but someone handling the ball off ball screens and being a decision maker with the ball in traffic and whether or not to shoot, penetrate or deliver it to the slashers. Because, that is what the wing (or 3) is responsible for. 

This is why so many of us are adamant that he's not a 3. Being a "3" isn't just shooting from the perimeter when you're open, it's being one of the core play creators and ball handlers. It's being a decision maker with the ball and a decision maker in traffic. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if he has improved in all of these areas and is capable of it. That would be great. But, not only has he not shown these skills yet, he's actually shown he's pretty bad at those skills. 

Well said.  I will add that I thought he was very poor at passing last year, as if he had no aptitude for it.  There's a view that "you are what you can defend" but his inability to handle, pass, shoot (essentially create) would make us skeptical.  But, as you pointed out, he's had 6-7 months to improve in these areas.  Let's what he looks like in a month.

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Changing the subject a little, it looked like Damezi got alot of run.  Based on the boxscore, I bet he played with that motor and toughness we liked.  He got some boards which to me is a number I look at for the toughness/hard work factor.  We can't tell how he defended, and he has had issues, but his motor suggests to me he can defend once he gains enough experience.  But the box score showed he is still a nervous wreck shooting the ball.  Hopefully, he will calm down with his shot because he shot well in high school.  There's potential there.  He just needs to let the game slow down for himself.  I suspect (hope) he will make strides but it may be over the course of the season, not necessarily right away.  

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1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Well said.  I will add that I thought he was very poor at passing last year, as if he had no aptitude for it.  There's a view that "you are what you can defend" but his inability to handle, pass, shoot (essentially create) would make us skeptical.  But, as you pointed out, he's had 6-7 months to improve in these areas.  Let's what he looks like in a month.

Exactly. And, we're not saying he can't be an extremely valuable and important/impactful player to this team. But, as we all know coaching is about putting people in the right position to succeed, and unless he's improved drastically in many of those areas, then IMO (though as someone said yesterday Archie's opinion is all that matters) the best position for Justin Smith to thrive, succeed and impact the team is as a forward where he's setting screens, slashing to the basket, and finishing. A guy that defends like crazy, hits the boards, runs the floor as a receiver, not a ball handler, and finishes plays with his athleticism. 

I don't think putting in in a position to create plays with ball handling, passing and decision making in traffic is putting him in a position to succeed and help the team, again unless he's improved dramatically, which is possible. 

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