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IU vs Seton Hall. Game thread


milehiiu

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Great Post, ephul.  Short of a scandal, Archie won’t be on any kind of hot seat until at least his fourth year.  Will he be great?  I do not have a crystal ball.  But it’s way, way, way premature to even put the question on the table with the bunch he inherited.  There’s nobody on the roster who he even went out and found.  These are all players Crean identified.  

I am looking at things like style of play, teaching, how he handles things, building a roster, adjustments, etc.  People don’t like it, but that takes years to understand.  

I do agree with KOB’s point that you constantly evaluate and re-assess.  I’d like to think I try to do that.  To do a deep dive with proper data, it will be a few years. 

To put it another way, you could have Person A who thinks Archie is a bum after three games.   Person B says I want to see 3-4 years before I decide.  Then by 2022 or 2023, it turns out Archie gets fired.   Like in math, if you have to show your work, I would give Person B more credit because his analysis was more realistic.  With Crean, there were people who hated him when they saw him clapping and tanning.  In year three, red flags started showing up.  But, for a true understanding, we needed several years of him coaching before a proper analysis would conclude he needs to be fired, IMO.  

Bottom line, I will always analyze and consider coaching, but I’m not entertaining whether Archie needs to go until year four at a minimum.  And I’m not expecting a problem.  My confidence is unwavering right now.  I could be wrong in the end, but you can’t reasonably know that yet or even next year.  

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1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Great Post, ephul.  Short of a scandal, Archie won’t be on any kind of hot seat until at least his fourth year.  Will he be great?  I do not have a crystal ball.  But it’s way, way, way premature to even put the question on the table with the bunch he inherited.  There’s nobody on the roster who he even went out and found.  These are all players Crean identified.  

I am looking at things like style of play, teaching, how he handles things, building a roster, adjustments, etc.  People don’t like it, but that takes years to understand.  

I do agree with KOB’s point that you constantly evaluate and re-assess.  I’d like to think I try to do that.  To do a deep dive with proper data, it will be a few years. 

To put it another way, you could have Person A who thinks Archie is a bum after three games.   Person B says I want to see 3-4 years before I decide.  Then by 2022 or 2023, it turns out Archie gets fired.   Like in math, if you have to show your work, I would give Person B more credit because his analysis was more realistic.  With Crean, there were people who hated him when they saw him clapping and tanning.  In year three, red flags started showing up.  But, for a true understanding, we needed several years of him coaching before a proper analysis would conclude he needs to be fired, IMO.  

Bottom line, I will always analyze and consider coaching, but I’m not entertaining whether Archie needs to go until year four at a minimum.  And I’m not expecting a problem.  My confidence is unwavering right now.  I could be wrong in the end, but you can’t reasonably know that yet or even next year.  

I agree with this, too. Three games doesn't give enough data for a conclusion but that doesn't mean you just ignore it. I've not seen a single person say they've made a conclusion that Archie should be on the hot seat. 

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As for the game itself:

1.  Rob Johnson had the most hollow stats you will ever see.  If this team is going to have any success, he needs to be more assertive.  And I don’t mean in garbage time.  I mean, at critical junctures.  And he needs to be consistent.  Beyond that, he learned under the lax ball control system for three years.  He needs to adjust his thinking.  He’s been mislabeled as a combo guard.  He can’t handle in traffic, turns it over a ton, and makes poor decisions.  He has had experience but it’s been bad experience.  Going forward, he can commit himself as a two guard.  Let him score.  He has a full repertoire of scoring moves.  You see a bunch of seniors over the years really come on and take a big step as the game slows down for them.  Rob has always had that sleepy, low energy demeanor.  Unfortunately, he hasn’t been a mentally tough kid as his performances swerve all over the place, from him flat out carrying the team at one extreme to him being a disinterested liability at the other.  Normally when he goes into one of his scoring funks, his defense suffers too.  That’s something he needs to get past.  

This will all hopefully come into focus for him.  I’d say he’s the biggest story on the team.  If he’s not competitive, the team more than likely won’t be.  If he doesn’t pick it up in the next couple of games (I think he will), then I’d start to see him de-emphasized.  I harken back to a kid like Lyndon Jones.  Played a lot as a young player but didn’t progress and took a backup role later.  

I think Archie sees something in Rob.  He likes him and promotes him.  I still think Archie is going to get something out of Johnson.  He still has a chance to save his legacy.  Nobody will care if he was a top 50 scorer if he doesn’t assert himself and play tough, clutch basketball night-in, night-out going forward.  

2.  As maddening as the seniors have been, the freshmen and sophomores are easy to root for.  

3.  Imagine what Justin Smith will be doing when he gets stronger and has more muscle definition.  He could also use some sophistication in his game around the basket.  Durham also has a fire in his belly.  He was an underrated recruit.  With both, I like their toughness and competitiveness.  

4.  I probably would have redshirted Moore.  He’s got a high ceiling but seems to be a bit of a project.  

5.  I see people down on Morgan, but he does the little things.  Without him defensively, I don’t know where we’d be.  One thing I don’t envision with Morgan is scoring.  His touch isn’t there and he’s not accurate from deep.  He’s listed at 6’7.  Like Fletch, that’s without the Afro.  However, he plays tall.  

6.  Davis is an old school big.  Loved his little face up jumper.  He obviously has to work on his footwork defensively.  These old school centers take longer to develop.  It’s just a big adjustment.  But, when he gets there, watch out.  

7.  Green hit those shots when we really needed them.  Like his moxie.  He needs to settle down with trying to make some of those ridiculous passes.  Keep it simple. 

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Here is a quote from CAM on Rob from this week's radio show:

“I’m proud of Rob right now. I know a lot of people are wondering where his shot is, but he’s really bought into what we’re trying to do defensively. He’s played three straight games for us as hard as he can for 30 minutes. As he continues to do that, the other end of the floor will get better.”

Curious to hear what everyone thinks about this, as this seems to be pretty different than the general consensus about Rob right now. CAM isn't one to blow smoke-if he is saying this then I genuinely believe that he means it.

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12 minutes ago, madmax said:

Here is a quote from CAM on Rob from this week's radio show:

“I’m proud of Rob right now. I know a lot of people are wondering where his shot is, but he’s really bought into what we’re trying to do defensively. He’s played three straight games for us as hard as he can for 30 minutes. As he continues to do that, the other end of the floor will get better.”

Curious to hear what everyone thinks about this, as this seems to be pretty different than the general consensus about Rob right now. CAM isn't one to blow smoke-if he is saying this then I genuinely believe that he means it.

I think Rob is doing a better job than some of our other guards about not getting lose away from the ball.  Green seems great, but he gets lost when his man doesn't have the ball so much. It doesn't always result in his guy getting a shot, but often the next guy as the defense scrambles to rotate. 

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I'm with you KoB. I wasn't able to watch the Howard game or much of the Seton Hall game so I am really just going off what I have been able to read online.

I find it interesting though that our fan base has been so quick to criticize and put down Rob. I should note that CAM's statement about Rob here was in reference to being asked about him reaching the 1,000 point mark. CAM could have easily simply made nice and complimented the career that Rob has had at IU, but instead he chose to praise his "buy in" on the defensive end and his work ethic in games. Pretty stark contrast to what most fans are saying.

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1 hour ago, madmax said:

I'm with you KoB. I wasn't able to watch the Howard game or much of the Seton Hall game so I am really just going off what I have been able to read online.

I find it interesting though that our fan base has been so quick to criticize and put down Rob. I should note that CAM's statement about Rob here was in reference to being asked about him reaching the 1,000 point mark. CAM could have easily simply made nice and complimented the career that Rob has had at IU, but instead he chose to praise his "buy in" on the defensive end and his work ethic in games. Pretty stark contrast to what most fans are saying.

I’ve been critical of him. He just has a very apathetic look and demeanor that rubs people the wrong way. Maybe that’s just him being calm, level-headed and not letting the moment affect him. 

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7 hours ago, madmax said:

Here is a quote from CAM on Rob from this week's radio show:

“I’m proud of Rob right now. I know a lot of people are wondering where his shot is, but he’s really bought into what we’re trying to do defensively. He’s played three straight games for us as hard as he can for 30 minutes. As he continues to do that, the other end of the floor will get better.”

Curious to hear what everyone thinks about this, as this seems to be pretty different than the general consensus about Rob right now. CAM isn't one to blow smoke-if he is saying this then I genuinely believe that he means it.

I’ve been critical of Rob of course, though the shooting to me is less about shooting more, it’s just a fact that for this team to succeed right now it needs Rob Johnson to be a consistent threat from deep, to take them and make a high percentage. The turnovers and stuff are just baffling to me. 

But on what Archie said, I wouldn’t expect anything different right now. He’s praising and motivating his senior guard. He needs RoJo bought in. I’m not saying RoJo isn’t bought in, just saying we can’t take everything a coach says to the media as their total beliefs. Coaches often use the media for various purposes, and I think Archie is using it for positive reinforcement right now in RoJo’s case. 

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13 hours ago, Indykev said:

You do remember this team won 18 games last year and lost its best players right? . Your Love affair with Johnson is blinding.There is young talent on this team. You may be correct on your timeline for next season, Because Johnson and Newkirk won't be on the floor any longer and Hartman and Priller won't be taking up schollys not being used on the floor.

What? Hartman taking up a scholly? Love affair with Johnson? OK Kev.

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