KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 46 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: Why did Ballard pay Hines big money? Why did CMac go in the top 10 and JT in the 2nd round ? Hint: it’s because one of them is a versatile every down back and one isn’t. Look, I’m not knocking JT, but CMac is a bad comp. It’s like comparing Edgerrin James and Ricky Williams. What in the world is this post? You constantly knock Ballard, and are now using Ballard paying a guy after JT's rookie year as some knock on JT? Who cares where they were drafted? Ryan Leaf went second overall and Tom Brady went in the 6th round. Who would you rather have? JT rarely comes off the field when he is healthy, it was one of the frustrating things for the Colts because we didn't use Hines at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: What in the world is this post? You constantly knock Ballard, and are now using Ballard paying a guy after JT's rookie year as some knock on JT? Who cares where they were drafted? Ryan Leaf went second overall and Tom Brady went in the 6th round. Who would you rather have? JT rarely comes off the field when he is healthy, it was one of the frustrating things for the Colts because we didn't use Hines at all. I knew that post would go over your head. You can’t compare JT and CMac. Apples and oranges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: I knew that post would go over your head. You can’t compare JT and CMac. Apples and oranges. Yes they have different skillsets, they don't have drastically different values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Yes they have different skillsets, they don't have drastically different values. Apparently NFL GMs feel differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 38 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: Apparently NFL GMs feel differently. How do you know that? Should be really easy to link that sort of thing. CMC has the 8th highest cap hit among RBs, so it isn't like he is paid in some different tier than other top backs by these GMs... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Boiler Sam said: Why did Ballard pay Hines big money? 5 hours ago, Boiler Sam said: It’s a passing league. Only a guy like Ballard would prefer a 1-2 down back that is weak in the passing game. So do we care what Ballard thinks or no? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-BONE Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Okay. Maybe this has already been discussed, but I just read this review of Ballard's end-of-year, post-mortem presser: https://www.stampedeblue.com/2023/1/10/23548543/chris-ballard-will-do-whatever-it-takes-to-land-franchise-quarterback-in-draft. Admittedly, haven't yet reviewed it in its entirety. But, at first blush, I'm getting a Pagano/Grigson vibe from the post-kumbaya, pre-firing period. Hope this off-season and next season goes better for Ballard than the last one under that duo. Edited January 10, 2023 by D-BONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: So do we care what Ballard thinks or no? He paid Hines big money because JT isn’t an every down back. Like CMac is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: How do you know that? Should be really easy to link that sort of thing. CMC has the 8th highest cap hit among RBs, so it isn't like he is paid in some different tier than other top backs by these GMs... One was drafted in the top 10 and was subsequently given a 4 year $64 million deal. The other guy wasn’t drafted in the top 30, and won’t be given that kind of contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 58 minutes ago, D-BONE said: Okay. Maybe this has already been discussed, but I just read this review of Ballard's end-of-year, post-mortem presser: https://www.stampedeblue.com/2023/1/10/23548543/chris-ballard-will-do-whatever-it-takes-to-land-franchise-quarterback-in-draft. Admittedly, haven't yet reviewed it in its entirety. But, at first blush, I'm getting a Pagano/Grigson vibe from the post-kumbaya, pre-firing period. Hope this off-season and next season goes better for Ballard than the last one under that duo. Ballard said all the right things. Now we’ll see if he can finally win the worst division in football in his 7th season. Did a nice job dancing around the “meddling owner” questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: One was drafted in the top 10 and was subsequently given a 4 year $64 million deal. The other guy wasn’t drafted in the top 30, and won’t be given that kind of contract. We have no idea, but I’d guess JT gets a big contract unless there are health concerns. 25 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: He paid Hines big money because JT isn’t an every down back. Like CMac is. He did that before JT became elite. And you already questioned Ballard’s judgement, you don’t get to use that as proof when it’s convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: We have no idea, but I’d guess JT gets a big contract unless there are health concerns. He’s not getting $16 million a year. For the same reason that every team passed on him in the draft, and CMac went #8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: 34 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: He did that before JT became elite. And you already questioned Ballard’s judgement, you don’t get to use that as proof when it’s convenient When did he become elite in the passing game? Was that 2021 when he had 360 receiving yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Boiler Sam said: When did he become elite in the passing game? Was that 2021 when he had 360 receiving yards? His complete package is elite. This really isn’t that complicated… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: His complete package is elite. This really isn’t that complicated… That may be the case. But the point is, his skill set isn’t in demand to the same degree that McCaffrey’s is. So no one is trading that much draft capital for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Boiler Sam said: I knew that post would go over your head. You can’t compare JT and CMac. Apples and oranges. You’re right. The last couple of years CMC couldn’t stay on the field due to injuries while JT was carrying the ball more than 300 times—which was more touches than McCaffery averages running and catching. The only reason the Colts shut Taylor down this year was because they had nothing to play for. And, per your own admission, the Colts have much less talent than San Francisco. Taylor has to carry his team much more than McCaffrey does his. So who is more valuable? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdgenhoosier Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 20 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: His complete package is elite. This really isn’t that complicated… Agree. I don’t know what is so complicated. He has shown he can be utilized in the passing game but the Colts don’t use him that much. I wish they did because I believe he has that skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, Steubenhoosier said: You’re right. The last couple of years CMC couldn’t stay on the field due to injuries while JT was carrying the ball more than 300 times—which was more touches than McCaffery averages running and catching. The only reason the Colts shut Taylor down this year was because they had nothing to play for. And, per your own admission, the Colts have much less talent than San Francisco. Taylor has to carry his team much more than McCaffrey does his. So who is more valuable? JT is certainly more valuable TO THE COLTS, with their ground and pound attack. He’s not as valuable TO OTHER NFL TEAMS with high powered passing attacks as McCaffrey. Hence their draft positions. This discussion is about whether JT can fetch the same amount of draft capital in a trade. Not about who is more valuable to their current team. It’s all about supply and demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, btownqb said: At 3? When you gave up 3 2nd rd picks to get him? When Josh Allen was there? Its worked well so far for the Jets! Would Josh Allen be where he is if he went to the Jets and didn’t work with Brian Diaboll and Ken Dorsey? If they never traded for Diggs? I’m saying he might have struggled too in NY with that cast of receivers and that staff Darnold had. Would Mahomes be what he is if he landed with another coach and system instead of Andy Reid?? That was all I meant. There will be a whole lot more that goes into the selection and how it works out then just the kid himself. Let me know who our coach and system will be and I will tell you who I prefer at QB. Edited January 10, 2023 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said: Agree. I don’t know what is so complicated. He has shown he can be utilized in the passing game but the Colts don’t use him that much. I wish they did because I believe he has that skill set. I think they will more with Hines gone, but it’s not like he was being used at Derrick Henry levels even with Hines here. It was still a good amount, just not CMC or Ekeler type levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10, 2023 Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Boiler Sam said: JT is certainly more valuable TO THE COLTS, with their ground and pound attack. He’s not as valuable TO OTHER NFL TEAMS with high powered passing attacks as McCaffrey. Hence their draft positions. This discussion is about whether JT can fetch the same amount of draft capital in a trade. Not about who is more valuable to their current team. It’s all about supply and demand. But draft position has nothing to do with it. Brady was a sixth round pick, what does that have to do with today? JT didn’t “slip” because of his skill set, it’s because of his workload in college, slight concerns about fumbling, and questions around how long he will play. JT is similar to guys like Zeke or Saquon in play style (more explosive than both though) and they were both top 5 picks. One year from now (or maybe even this offseason) it’s going to look really silly to say JT isn’t value like CMC when he commands a similar contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdgenhoosier Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: But draft position has nothing to do with it. Brady was a sixth round pick, what does that have to do with today? JT didn’t “slip” because of his skill set, it’s because of his workload in college, slight concerns about fumbling, and questions around how long he will play. JT is similar to guys like Zeke or Saquon in play style (more explosive than both though) and they were both top 5 picks. One year from now (or maybe even this offseason) it’s going to look really silly to say JT isn’t value like CMC when he commands a similar contract. I’d add that Wisconsin’s scheme didn’t exactly allow him to show what he could do in the passing game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: JT didn’t “slip” because of his skill set, it’s because of his workload in college, slight concerns about fumbling, and questions around how long he will play. JT is similar to guys like Zeke or Saquon in play style (more explosive than both though) and they were both top 5 picks. CMac, Zeke, and Saquon were drafted way earlier than JT because they were all much better in the passing game in college. I guarantee JT won’t get a 4 year $64 million contract like CMac. Nor will he command the same amount of draft capital in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said: I’d add that Wisconsin’s scheme didn’t exactly allow him to show what he could do in the passing game. True. Maybe he shouldn’t have gone to Ground and Pound U. (And Ballard’s alma mater ironically) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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