Backcourt

[KoB2011]

4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

We played "big" with TJD, Brunk, and Justin Smith...And Smith is gone...

Our frontcourt isn't very deep...Hunter is going to see minutes he didn't last year, but my personal opinion is we'll see 2 of our 3 bigs (TJD, Thompson, or Brunk) out on the floor more often than not...

I just can't see one big, Hunter, and 3 guards out on the floor together very often. Particularly against teams with size.

How many teams have a 4 that is going to bully a 6'7, 220lb player with length and athleticism?

What do you make of Archie's comments about playing smaller like he did at Dayton, and even mentioning a lineup with Jerome or Jordan at the 4?

[IUFLA]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

How many teams have a 4 that is going to bully a 6'7, 220lb player with length and athleticism?

What do you make of Archie's comments about playing smaller like he did at Dayton, and even mentioning a lineup with Jerome or Jordan at the 4?

A few...I liked the progress of Hunter last year, but he did have struggles on the defensive end. And then there's rebounding to consider...

As for your second question, that will play out in practice I suppose. But I also know Archie is pretty consistent in his lineup choices. 

I guess we'll see...

[IowaHoosierFan]

13 hours ago, IUFLA said:

We played "big" with TJD, Brunk, and Justin Smith...And Smith is gone...

Our frontcourt isn't very deep...Hunter is going to see minutes he didn't last year, but my personal opinion is we'll see 2 of our 3 bigs (TJD, Thompson, or Brunk) out on the floor more often than not...

I just can't see one big, Hunter, and 3 guards out on the floor together very often. Particularly against teams with size.

I think we see TJD and RT at the same time with Brunk off the bench

[NotIThatLives]

Well, this team has experience. It is faster.  More talented.  The main 4 are capable and component shooters.  Not sure why Franklin is getting so little love, I believe he will traject nicely into a really nice player.  Even if Rob, Al, and Franklin make just incremental improvements, add Lander's abilities and that's a really solid core 4.  Maybe not top 3 in league but I think we finally see a team put together that can be more than the sum of it's parts.  It's good to really good everywhere.  Staying healthy is key because you really don't want to rely on freshman who are outside of the top 50 to jump right in to a top 10 most difficult schedule in the country.  

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

A few...I liked the progress of Hunter last year, but he did have struggles on the defensive end. And then there's rebounding to consider...

As for your second question, that will play out in practice I suppose. But I also know Archie is pretty consistent in his lineup choices. 

I guess we'll see...

Sure, but I think you'll see Race at the 4 more when you have a big that is too much for Hunter; Race is a stronger rebounder and defender than Brunk plus he helps us keep the floor spread offensively. I'm not saying you'll never see Brunk and TJD play together, but I'd guess it'll only average about 5 minutes per game, some games where it happens more and some games it doesn't happen at all. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure, but I think you'll see Race at the 4 more when you have a big that is too much for Hunter; Race is a stronger rebounder and defender than Brunk plus he helps us keep the floor spread offensively. I'm not saying you'll never see Brunk and TJD play together, but I'd guess it'll only average about 5 minutes per game, some games where it happens more and some games it doesn't happen at all. 

Brunk started over Race last year...And Race proved that he was really effective off of the bench...

So that's why I think Joey will certainly be on the court with Trace, and as a matter of fact, I believe he will start and the bolded part of your statement will be fulfilled in the first 5 minutes of the game. 

As I said, I'm not at practice, and I don't see what's going on, but TJD was also supposed to be working on his perimeter and mid-range game, correct? If that happens successfully, then we'll need Joey and Race to be our low post presence more than ever (and I know TJD won't exclusively play on the perimeter if he does find his outside game). 

Another way to look at it...

Backcourt for 3 slots

Lander

Phinisee

Durham

Franklin

Hunter

Frontcourt for 2 slots

TJD

Thompson

Brunk

Hunter

So that's 8 guys...200 minutes...averages out to 25 per for each...we know some are going to be neared to 30 (TJD, Rob, Al) and some neared to 20 (Brunk, Franklin...and these are just guesses based on what I saw last year). I purposely didn't include the other 3 freshmen because they are X factors. I think they'll get minutes, but unless someone really breaks out, I'd think limited minutes...And none of them are what I'd consider frontcourt players.

All which says, "Hell I don't know." Fun to speculate and kick around though...

[Hoosierhoopster]

It's an interesting discussion, we won't know until the season (finally) starts, and then that's just the start -- the lineups will likely evolve just as they did last season.

We're looking at what big jumps are expected and in that regard how that affects who starts or, more importantly, how it changes how we play, particularly offensively, but also defensively. Have to also look at how the lineups and minutes changed last year, and the departures of Smith and Green and how that will impact who plays how much this year.

Hunter, Race and Armaan each averaged 3.7 - 3.8 ppg, on the season, but that disregards their clear development over the season, and how they finished the season, including minutes played, scoring, percentages, and defense, all of which each of them significantly improved. 

Just looking at how Brunk was played last year (and disregarding how that changed significantly towards year end) is misleading, and it should be. 

Looking at last season's games starting in February (OSU), Brunk's minutes dropped significantly from the 20's to single digits.

Brunk started over Race? OK, Brunk was playing around 7-9 min per game as the season wound down, Race was playing 20-plus minutes and his role was growing. Hunter started Feb off with a 28-minute, productive game. Race's minutes, and production, increased the most from that point forward, from about 7 to 24 a couple games later against Iowa, and 20-min games for the most part going forward.

Looking back at the box scores , it's kind of odd the way Hunter's and Race's minutes go up and down game by game -- CAM was experimenting or playing to the competition, I'm not really a fan of that kind of minute movement, better consistency is needed, but you can see both Race and Hunter's respective impacts growing and Brunk's minutes decreasing. 

So what should be obvious -- Race will take on Smith's minutes and role, with better versatility. Seems likely to me looking back at the last 10 games and now Smith's departure that Race will start. so TJD, Race, Lander, and Rob (assuming healthy) seem highly likely, to me. That would leave one of Al, Hunter, Armaan or Brunk. Really, really don't think we'll see Brunk and Race much together, we're going to be faster and more versatile, not plodding. Have to think Al will start, he's started every year and is a consistently good outside shooter and can play off ball with Rob and Lander. So probably Al. 

But that's just the start of the season. Would expect guys like Hunter and Armaan to be real impact players this season, starting or not.

 

[bluegrassIU]

Thank you God, we finally have a real IU basketball discussion going on HSN. 

 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

Thank you God, we finally have a real IU basketball discussion going on HSN. 

 

Well, dammit, you just brought religion into it  

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, bluegrassIU said:

Thank you God, we finally have a real IU basketball discussion going on HSN. 

 

How do we report this religious talk to the mods? I want this guy banned!! 

[Candystripes_56]

Awesome stuff!

 

In regards to backcourt/wing, though, what combo do y'all think is best for spacing and taking care of the ball?

[NCHoosier32]

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

How do we report this religious talk to the mods? I want this guy banned!! 

i'm offended

[dgambill]

Yes we are speculating of course. I kind of get the feeling based on the players Archie has recruited recently (3 wings and a pg last year) and he is in close talks with several more wings and only one traditional big basically that he would like to go 1 in and 4 out. Now it still takes a player that can physically hold up to big 4s because we all know the B1G plays physical but that is why guys like Miller and Kaufman and lately a guy like Hopkins who can play 4 and hold up physically are a focus along with multiple overlaps at the guard spots.

Would love to hear from someone within the program to comment on what kind of lineups he is running in practices or what they are hearing but I know Covid has probably limited who had been allowed around the program lately so news is hard to get.

[milehiiu]

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yes we are speculating of course. I kind of get the feeling based on the players Archie has recruited recently (3 wings and a pg last year) and he is in close talks with several more wings and only one traditional big basically that he would like to go 1 in and 4 out. Now it still takes a player that can physically hold up to big 4s because we all know the B1G plays physical but that is why guys like Miller and Kaufman and lately a guy like Hopkins who can play 4 and hold up physically are a focus along with multiple overlaps at the guard spots.

Would love to hear from someone within the program to comment on what kind of lineups he is running in practices or what they are hearing but I know Covid has probably limited who had been allowed around the program lately so news is hard to get.

Rather than starting a new thread. I am going to put this here, since his name has recently come up :

IU basketball: “No one has made more strides” than Race Thompson – The Daily Hoosier

[IUFLA]

17 hours ago, Candystripes_56 said:

In regards to backcourt/wing, though, what combo do y'all think is best for spacing and taking care of the ball?

Obviously a lot of that counts on how well we shoot the ball. I think Al is a good shooter, Hunter came on late in the year as a reliable shooter, and I'm anxious to see an injury free Rob Phinisee playing more off the ball and how consistent he can be from outside. Lander is an unknown. I've hear that's a weak part of his game, and of course facing college defenses will be new to him. Franklin showed flashes(we don't beat Notre Dame without his contribution) but was inconsistent.

I also wonder how much latitude our big guys (TJD and Race, not Brunk) will get on shooting from mid-range or outside. I know Race can hit an occasional 3, but I also remember CAM getting pissed when he took one. 

As far as the ball handling and taking care of the ball, with 2 legit PGs starting (assumed) and Al being a "tweener" I think we should be strong there...And we lost Justin Smith's hands  

[Hoosierhoopster]

22 hours ago, Candystripes_56 said:

Awesome stuff!

 

In regards to backcourt/wing, though, what combo do y'all think is best for spacing and taking care of the ball?

I like that you added taking care of the ball here, to go with spacing. I think that part of the question gets overlooked.

With Rob (if healthy, otherwise Armaan) and Lander —

Spacing - either Al or Hunter (depending on whether Hunter’s second half of season Shooting continues and grows.

Taking care of the ball - think Hunter will be better. I also expect we’ll see an improved Hunter defensively now that he’s had a full summer following the season to re-acclimate himself to game conditions.

[BGleas]

I'm an Archie fan and supporter, but I will say that if we start big to begin next season I will begin to really question the direction the program is headed. IMO, it's pretty crystal clear the last few years that this team needs to get more athletic, more skilled on the perimeter and explosive offensively. Have two bigs that can't shoot outside of the paint, assuming TJD hasn't drastically improved from the perimeter, just doesn't get it done. 

Also, with Davis gone, Brunk slides nicely into that backup center role, with either Hunter or Race becoming the starting 4. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I'm an Archie fan and supporter, but I will say that if we start big to begin next season I will begin to really question the direction the program is headed. IMO, it's pretty crystal clear the last few years that this team needs to get more athletic, more skilled on the perimeter and explosive offensively. Have two bigs that can't shoot outside of the paint, assuming TJD hasn't drastically improved from the perimeter, just doesn't get it done. 

Also, with Davis gone, Brunk slides nicely into that backup center role, with either Hunter or Race becoming the starting 4. 

Agreed. I know matchups and how well guys are performing will determine how the playing time might go from game to game and matchups of course but he should have a slew of guys that are ready to contribute minutes next year. Armaan and Lander for sure. Geronimo should be able to give minutes by bringing defensive intensity and I think Leal and Galloway can spot a few minutes here and there. By the following year the gap gets even more evident Archie is building a perimeter oriented team.

[Reacher]

On 10/9/2020 at 10:50 AM, Hoosierhoopster said:

It's an interesting discussion, we won't know until the season (finally) starts, and then that's just the start -- the lineups will likely evolve just as they did last season.

We're looking at what big jumps are expected and in that regard how that affects who starts or, more importantly, how it changes how we play, particularly offensively, but also defensively. Have to also look at how the lineups and minutes changed last year, and the departures of Smith and Green and how that will impact who plays how much this year.

Hunter, Race and Armaan each averaged 3.7 - 3.8 ppg, on the season, but that disregards their clear development over the season, and how they finished the season, including minutes played, scoring, percentages, and defense, all of which each of them significantly improved. 

Just looking at how Brunk was played last year (and disregarding how that changed significantly towards year end) is misleading, and it should be. 

Looking at last season's games starting in February (OSU), Brunk's minutes dropped significantly from the 20's to single digits.

Brunk started over Race? OK, Brunk was playing around 7-9 min per game as the season wound down, Race was playing 20-plus minutes and his role was growing. Hunter started Feb off with a 28-minute, productive game. Race's minutes, and production, increased the most from that point forward, from about 7 to 24 a couple games later against Iowa, and 20-min games for the most part going forward.

Looking back at the box scores , it's kind of odd the way Hunter's and Race's minutes go up and down game by game -- CAM was experimenting or playing to the competition, I'm not really a fan of that kind of minute movement, better consistency is needed, but you can see both Race and Hunter's respective impacts growing and Brunk's minutes decreasing. 

So what should be obvious -- Race will take on Smith's minutes and role, with better versatility. Seems likely to me looking back at the last 10 games and now Smith's departure that Race will start. so TJD, Race, Lander, and Rob (assuming healthy) seem highly likely, to me. That would leave one of Al, Hunter, Armaan or Brunk. Really, really don't think we'll see Brunk and Race much together, we're going to be faster and more versatile, not plodding. Have to think Al will start, he's started every year and is a consistently good outside shooter and can play off ball with Rob and Lander. So probably Al. 

But that's just the start of the season. Would expect guys like Hunter and Armaan to be real impact players this season, starting or not.

 

Agree with this. I'd like to see Hunter improved enough to start as I think that would give us the highest ceiling.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, Reacher said:

Agree with this. I'd like to see Hunter improved enough to start as I think that would give us the highest ceiling.

I agree completely. I think that hope has been driving my thinking he could start. He made good progress last season, and if he can get to the level of his game that he looks capable of, he can be an exceptional impact player that can help the team run deep in March 

[IUFLA]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:08 PM, BGleas said:

I'm an Archie fan and supporter, but I will say that if we start big to begin next season I will begin to really question the direction the program is headed. IMO, it's pretty crystal clear the last few years that this team needs to get more athletic, more skilled on the perimeter and explosive offensively. Have two bigs that can't shoot outside of the paint, assuming TJD hasn't drastically improved from the perimeter, just doesn't get it done. 

Also, with Davis gone, Brunk slides nicely into that backup center role, with either Hunter or Race becoming the starting 4. 

My comments were made knowing that with Justin Smith gone, we'd almost HAVE to get more skilled (JS was athletic, but skilled, especially on offense, is debatable) on the perimeter, be it Hunter or a guard filling Justin's old position (The 3! 😁). I know last year we had disagreements over IU going big and basically having to pound it inside to win, but I can see that this years' team won't have to do that for a few reasons. 

The main one is, we can't because our frontcourt is thin. We can't afford to start 3 bigs. Now that opinion is based on college experience. I'm not going to  count on Geronimo until I can see minutes out of him, but 4 guys for 2 slots is, at least to me, on the lean side. And one of those 4 (Hunter) is probably going to swing between 3 and 4 (not saying he's a 4, just using it for position number reference). It doesn't fit our personnel any more. To your points in past posts, it will open up driving lanes for Al, Rob, Kristian, and Hunter. We played 3 bigs last year out of necessity. 

Archie said this in the TDH article @snowling linked in the other thread...

“I think we can play two bigs because we’re comfortable doing it, but I also think that we can move Jerome over there a little bit, and move Jordan over there a little bit, and play a little bit more four guys that are a little bit more perimeter oriented around the big guy,” 

So, at least to me, it sounds like we are definitely going to play 2 bigs at a time during games. My disagreement with some is who is going to start in the 2nd big slot across from TJD. It's my opinion, that while Race is a better player, Joey will start. Race will ultimately get more floor time, but I think he's better off the bench. He certainly was last year.

Just one man's opinion...