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The state of the NBA (and other major professional sports)


FKIM01

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20 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

 

On the other hand, the players are just employees in the aspect that they should not be dictating who the head coach is (Lebron) what teammates are brought in, or frankly, what the franchise represents. 

Why not? I have similar influence and I'm just an employee. I'm not 1 of 15, I'm 1 of 1500, but what good organization doesn't value employee feedback? 

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43 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Why not? I have similar influence and I'm just an employee. I'm not 1 of 15, I'm 1 of 1500, but what good organization doesn't value employee feedback? 

Feedback, yes.  Being dictated to, no.  I'm not sure where it truly fell between the two, but the inference was in Cleveland at least that if LeBron didn't like you, you're gone.  While he might have liked Tyron Lue better, it didn't appear that he respected him much.  Just going off of body language in huddles, etc.  I remember a lot of times when I was watching, Lue would be talking to the team in the huddle and LeBron wasn't even looking at him and didn't appear to be listening.  Not sure what LeBron was looking for in a coach, but his interaction with coaches in Cleveland lost some respect for me.  Maybe he felt he was talented enough that he didn't need to be coached, but it wasn't a great look for me.  Can't say if he's changed or not because I simply don't watch enough anymore.

Employee input...absolutely.  That's a good thing for a healthy organization.  The inmates running the asylum is not.

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5 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Feedback, yes.  Being dictated to, no.  I'm not sure where it truly fell between the two, but the inference was in Cleveland at least that if LeBron didn't like you, you're gone.  While he might have liked Tyron Lue better, it didn't appear that he respected him much.  Just going off of body language in huddles, etc.  I remember a lot of times when I was watching, Lue would be talking to the team in the huddle and LeBron wasn't even looking at him and didn't appear to be listening.  Not sure what LeBron was looking for in a coach, but his interaction with coaches in Cleveland lost some respect for me.  Maybe he felt he was talented enough that he didn't need to be coached, but it wasn't a great look for me.  Can't say if he's changed or not because I simply don't watch enough anymore.

Employee input...absolutely.  That's a good thing for a healthy organization.  The inmates running the asylum is not.

There is certainly a fine line, and LeBron's line is in a different place than almost any employee on the planet, but I'd say that's for good reason. 

I don't think you're wrong about how things played out in Cleveland, though. 

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Granted I was never much of an NBA fan anyway, but when they put their material and symbolic support behind a Marxist group intent on defunding the police and doing away with the nuclear family, that pretty much eliminated them from any entertainment options for me.

All the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. had to do was say "we're sports, not a platform for individual political messages" and everything would be kosher. 

I've always loved sports, but have no problem telling them all to go to hell if they start preaching to me, or supporting militantly confrotational radical groups like BLM.

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On 10/6/2020 at 11:41 AM, HoosierFaithful said:

I want to love the NBA but why watch a league where only 7-10 teams have a shot to win?

Say what you want about the NFL, but they figured out how to have parity, which no other league has done.

That’s a big part for me. Couple that with the way the game is played (ISO ball) where the best player runs a pick n roll 100 times a game it’s just repetitive and boring. Then it became everyone and their brother tossing up 50 3s a game many just awful awful possessions but the fact it’s worth more points and all the while everyone thinking let’s get up as many shots as possible no matter the quality and it turns into a track race of bad shot after bad shot. It just isn’t basketball that I recognize and enjoy.
Kind of the same stuff with football and the rule changes so crazy that makes passing and the offense almost impossible to stop (if you have a really good qb) and suddenly the nuance is gone. Then you have baseball and all the pitching changes, shifts, strike outs it hasn’t made a better product either. What happened to starters going 7-8 innings or say a guy driving it the other way or up the middle. Well with the shift either they can’t hit it where people aren’t or they figure since I can’t line a hit they all swing for the fences. Don’t know how many times I’m disappointed when I see a sharply hit ball that looks like a sure hit go right to a we’ll positioned shift. Sure that’s awesome for defense but it just takes away something about the game...I don’t know if it’s helping the game.

So all in all interest has waned for pro sports while gone up for amateur sports where the sport seems to retain still some of its appeal for me. Add in the social political narratives going on...that was the last straw to break my back from declining interest to finding something else to watch to avoid the last pure thing about sports...as it was a break from the real world. Sports used to unite and now it divides like so many other things. Even if I couldn’t stand the announcers slobbering over the Patriots and Cowboys or Yankees and Red Sox or Lakers and Celtics I would still suck it up and watch...now...if it isn’t my team I’m not sticking around to listen and go through all the BS to watch a game that doesn’t effect my team....even so much that the playoffs don’t interest me because of the mind numbing convos going on and the state of the games.

So that’s where I stand in a nutshell...well that’s too long for a nutshell...more like a coconut.

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17 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

BaCk iN ThE 90'S nBA, yOu HAd tO WoRK fOr EveRY PoInt yOu GoT!

(caution: language)

 

I watched a couple mins...which was pretty much after the Jordan rules came into effect...which probably was the beginning of the end for physical play in the nba. I noticed he didn’t use clips from any Detroit series in late 80s early 90s when MJ was getting mugged by Dumars and laid out by Mahorne and Lambeer. Anyways cherry picking video we could even make TJ Leaf look like an All Star...well...a short video that is lol.

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10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I watched a couple mins...which was pretty much after the Jordan rules came into effect...which probably was the beginning of the end for physical play in the nba. I noticed he didn’t use clips from any Detroit series in late 80s early 90s when MJ was getting mugged by Dumars and laid out by Mahorne and Lambeer. Anyways cherry picking video we could even make TJ Leaf look like an All Star...well...a short video that is lol.

You mean he didn't use any clips from when Jordan couldn't win?

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1 hour ago, GrangerHoosier said:

Granted I was never much of an NBA fan anyway, but when they put their material and symbolic support behind a Marxist group intent on defunding the police and doing away with the nuclear family, that pretty much eliminated them from any entertainment options for me.

All the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. had to do was say "we're sports, not a platform for individual political messages" and everything would be kosher. 

I've always loved sports, but have no problem telling them all to go to hell if they start preaching to me, or supporting militantly confrotational radical groups like BLM.

Do you have an issue when athletes pray or talk about their religion in interviews? If not, my guess is you have a bigger issue hearing a message you disagree with than you have an issue with a message of personal conviction being shared. 

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52 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That’s a big part for me. Couple that with the way the game is played (ISO ball) where the best player runs a pick n roll 100 times a game it’s just repetitive and boring. Then it became everyone and their brother tossing up 50 3s a game many just awful awful possessions but the fact it’s worth more points and all the while everyone thinking let’s get up as many shots as possible no matter the quality and it turns into a track race of bad shot after bad shot. It just isn’t basketball that I recognize and enjoy.
Kind of the same stuff with football and the rule changes so crazy that makes passing and the offense almost impossible to stop (if you have a really good qb) and suddenly the nuance is gone. Then you have baseball and all the pitching changes, shifts, strike outs it hasn’t made a better product either. What happened to starters going 7-8 innings or say a guy driving it the other way or up the middle. Well with the shift either they can’t hit it where people aren’t or they figure since I can’t line a hit they all swing for the fences. Don’t know how many times I’m disappointed when I see a sharply hit ball that looks like a sure hit go right to a we’ll positioned shift. Sure that’s awesome for defense but it just takes away something about the game...I don’t know if it’s helping the game.

So all in all interest has waned for pro sports while gone up for amateur sports where the sport seems to retain still some of its appeal for me. Add in the social political narratives going on...that was the last straw to break my back from declining interest to finding something else to watch to avoid the last pure thing about sports...as it was a break from the real world. Sports used to unite and now it divides like so many other things. Even if I couldn’t stand the announcers slobbering over the Patriots and Cowboys or Yankees and Red Sox or Lakers and Celtics I would still suck it up and watch...now...if it isn’t my team I’m not sticking around to listen and go through all the BS to watch a game that doesn’t effect my team....even so much that the playoffs don’t interest me because of the mind numbing convos going on and the state of the games.

So that’s where I stand in a nutshell...well that’s too long for a nutshell...more like a coconut.

Agree with everything in this post

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26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you have an issue when athletes pray or talk about their religion in interviews?

Not in individual interviews, but if they forced the NBA to paint "Praise Jesus!" and "God Lives!" on the court while trying to advance radical ideas that I disagreed with, then yeah...

Don't want politics OR religion with my sports, thank you...

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2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Feedback, yes.  Being dictated to, no.  I'm not sure where it truly fell between the two, but the inference was in Cleveland at least that if LeBron didn't like you, you're gone.  While he might have liked Tyron Lue better, it didn't appear that he respected him much.  Just going off of body language in huddles, etc.  I remember a lot of times when I was watching, Lue would be talking to the team in the huddle and LeBron wasn't even looking at him and didn't appear to be listening.  Not sure what LeBron was looking for in a coach, but his interaction with coaches in Cleveland lost some respect for me.  Maybe he felt he was talented enough that he didn't need to be coached, but it wasn't a great look for me.  Can't say if he's changed or not because I simply don't watch enough anymore.

Employee input...absolutely.  That's a good thing for a healthy organization.  The inmates running the asylum is not.

What he said 

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31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you have an issue when athletes pray or talk about their religion in interviews? If not, my guess is you have a bigger issue hearing a message you disagree with than you have an issue with a message of personal conviction being shared. 

I really like and respect you KoB, but do you not see a difference between thanking God for your ability, v making a political stance?

 Correct me if I’m wrong but I cannot recall a time when an athlete brought up his/her faith when it was not to acknowledge that any success that they had was because of the blessings they received 

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9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Not in individual interviews, but if they forced the NBA to paint "Praise Jesus!" and "God Lives!" on the court while trying to advance radical ideas that I disagreed with, then yeah...

Don't want politics OR religion with my sports, thank you...

Take it you're not an auto racing fan then?

And on the ideas you disagree with, can you clarify if that means if they're pushing ideas you do agree with you won't have an issue with it?

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Just now, KoB2011 said:

Take it you're not an auto racing fan then?

And on the ideas you disagree with, can you clarify if that means if they're pushing ideas you do agree with you won't have an issue with it?

You are correct. I don't watch auto racing.

And I believe in God, but I don't want it painted on a frigging basketball court...whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant...

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7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I really like and respect you KoB, but do you not see a difference between thanking God for your ability, v making a political stance?

 Correct me if I’m wrong but I cannot recall a time when an athlete brought up his/her faith when it was not to acknowledge that any success that they had was because of the blessings they received 

Of course there are differences, I am just trying to understand where the line of sharing personal conviction is drawn? And, trying to understand what role agreeing with the message plays. 

I recognize that everyone will have different answers there; for me, I've always had to deal with personal convictions/messages/whatever I disagree with in sports and it's never impacted my fandom. It seems like some are dealing with that, at least at scale, for the first time and the result is taking their ball and going home. 

I just want to understand the why behind that, as I'm naturally inclined to what you engage with what I disagree with so I can understand and grow. 

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You are correct. I don't watch auto racing.

And I believe in God, but I don't want it painted on a frigging basketball court...whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant...

Totally fair, just trying to understand. I think everyone will have different answers and lines on that. 

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1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Of course there are differences, I am just trying to understand where the line of sharing personal conviction is drawn? And, trying to understand what role agreeing with the message plays. 

I recognize that everyone will have different answers there; for me, I've always had to deal with personal convictions/messages/whatever I disagree with in sports and it's never impacted my fandom. It seems like some are dealing with that, at least at scale, for the first time and the result is taking their ball and going home. 

I just want to understand the why behind that, as I'm naturally inclined to what you engage with what I disagree with so I can understand and grow. 

For me the political stuff is not why I am not watching the game but more due to my dislike of the style of basketball I see.

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2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You are correct. I don't watch auto racing.

And I believe in God, but I don't want it painted on a frigging basketball court...whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant...

That's kind of where I draw the line as well.  I have no problem with differing beliefs and opinions...but I'm not watching the game just so I can learn what the players think and believe.  I'm watching to see how they perform.  All the extra stuff just distracts from the reason I am watching and is annoying even when I agree with it.  The subliminal message is, because I/we think/feel this way, you all should too.

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Just now, IU Scott said:

For me the political stuff is not why I am not watching the game but more due to my dislike of the style of basketball I see.

You dislike the NBA? If you hadn't mentioned it hundreds of times I'd never have guessed with the frequency you post in a thread specifically about the NBA. 

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