IPFW post game

[HoosierFaithful]

Get better?  Hell, RoJo isn't even the same player.  It's quite plain to see he has regressed significantly since his sophomore year, IMO.

[Indykev]

2 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Get better?  Hell, RoJo isn't even the same player.  It's quite plain to see he has regressed significantly since his sophomore year, IMO.

Some guys just can't be the man. They dont have the mental make up.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Robert Johnson is a four year, major minute playing, top 50 recruit role player. He really never got better. I'm not sure I've ever seen a guy play major minutes so four years and not improve like he has. 

Not just hasn’t gotten better, he’s gotten worse. Is there a more disappointing player on this team? He has 12 turnovers in the last two games, and I’ve said this before but what is so incredibly frustrating is that the majority of his turnovers are just complete bonehead plays. It’s honestly like 6-10 times a game he just blacks out or literally forgets he’s in a basketball game. 

The thing that is tough though is the first clip of BTN’s game recap was a Davis turnover in the first half, and RoJo was back to make a play defensively on FW’s ensuing fast break and RoJo literally trotted from half court as he watched Scott race pass him for an easy layup. 

[KoB2011]

If you're looking for a positive, McRoberts looked to score a little more tonight and ended up with 9 points. He could be an important player for us the next couple years. 

[cohete15]

It starts with the players. I said this when Crean was there. When you come out flat and see lack of focus, laziness, etc...that's on the players. Coaches will always be as prepared as they know best. I don't know of coaches that take opponents lightly. I was at the game and I sit pretty close to the bench, and if there's one guy who was focused and intense, it was Archie. Many championship coaches say the same...it starts with the players. When the coach has to be the leader, you have bad leadership. Unfortunately, our "leaders" don't appear to care.

18 turnovers...18 LAZY turnovers. If I were Archie, I wouldn't have spoken to the team after the game. I would have just sent out a group text and hour after the game, "Practice, 6am, tomorrow"

Archie has my full support. I'll remain disappointed in the kids out there that will look back and fully regret the effort they put in to their senior year. 

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, cohete15 said:

It starts with the players. I said this when Crean was there. When you come out flat and see lack of focus, laziness, etc...that's on the players. Coaches will always be as prepared as they know best. I don't know of coaches that take opponents lightly. I was at the game and I sit pretty close to the bench, and if there's one guy who was focused and intense, it was Archie. Many championship coaches say the same...it starts with the players. When the coach has to be the leader, you have bad leadership. Unfortunately, our "leaders" don't appear to care.

18 turnovers...18 LAZY turnovers. If I were Archie, I wouldn't have spoken to the team after the game. I would have just sent out a group text and hour after the game, "Practice, 6am, tomorrow"

Archie has my full support. I'll remain disappointed in the kids out there that will look back and fully regret the effort they put in to their senior year. 

Great post!

[BGleas]

It’s going to be tough to win games consistently for this team when our guards/wings are a bunch of streak, 6’1” guards that aren’t overly athletic, can’t shoot, and constantly turn the ball over. It’s just a team terrible guard play. 

[BGleas]

Can Phinisee graduate high school now and take CuJo’s scholarship? 

[cohete15]

I'll get some flak for this statement...but said it to my buddy on the way TO the game. No more of this in-state scheduling. Play the ND/Butler game and be done with it. It's just dumb, bad scheduling. 

[Fundamentals]

IU led 37-36 at the half, and knew then they were in a fight.  

Once FW started a 3-pt flood, IU players quit, never responded.  That is what’s puzzling. 

I realize the famous “help is on the way” statement by Mike Davis is in play, but watching Damezi Anderson at Southport?  I’d argue he is as talented as any player we have now.  And that doesn’t include what Phinisee is doing.  Our roster will stabilize and there is no substitute for a coach having his own players.

Archie will respond, the players will respond, I just wish we could watch the younger players learn moving forward, instead of upperclassmen entrenched in a former approach  

 

[Fundamentals]

Now is a great time to buy a clock for Christmas, especially in Bloomington, where word was all clocks were cleaned

[jefftheref]

1 hour ago, Fundamentals said:

Now is a great time to buy a clock for Christmas, especially in Bloomington, where word was all clocks were cleaned

That might be true but none of them can keep the correct time.

[zerawkid]

7 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I've already answered your question in my post to Muddy.  Not gonna do it again.  I've talked all week about Crean's first two years, and how those teams played with effort.

I consider tonight's effort as an anomaly.  Especially after the ND game, and the efforts shown against Duke and Louisville.  Count me as one who is not going to stop pulling, much less watching my beloved Hoosiers because of tonight's performance.  Just as I did not give up watching and pulling for IU during Crean's first three years.

I've been pulling, listening and watching IUBB since the early 1950's.  Attended all the games as a student during the putrid Lou years.  Certainly not going to give up now. I've seen better.  And I've seen worse.

 

I agree with pretty much everything here (except that last paragraph, sorry mile, I’m only 38 years old) 😉

For those railing about “effort” and “apathy”, as it may or may not pertain to the players, I ask this: how do you actually measure effort and how much a player “cares?” I get that you can try to look at a performance like last night and rail against how much they clearly “don’t care”, however, where’s the line between effort and just lack of developed IQ? Are you measuring body language? Facial expressions? I’m just positing that there’s a fair amount of subjectivity to this area of critique.

Turnovers aren’t always about lack of effort, sometimes it’s misplaced effort. A guy looks to use extra energy to make what he thinks will be a good play, only to have a defender make a better play...or, he find out, only too late, he shouldn’t have made that play after all. 

As far as defense, sure, I can honestly support and accept that lack of *consistent* effort was a culprit, however, there were numerous possessions that were coming down the wire where FW was able to step into yet another three. I see decent effort defensively, and then I see us being woefully unable to push the opposition back from being able to step, in rhythm, into good three point looks. Some of this is effort, some of it is still being a defense-avert, long term trained squad.

Just some thoughts. Disappointing let down after a signature win? Definitely. Should we have been ready to hoist the sky and proclaim smooth sailing? No. Not even close. Perhaps I manage my expectations differently, I dunno, but I will still watch every, single game, and login in here a couple times daily. The ship will be righted, but IU is a big vessel and it takes time to truly correct the momentum.

[FWIUFan]

I've been an avid IUBB fan since the 70's when CBK took the helm.  Just as Mile mentioned, I've seen better and worse over the years.  Let us not forget the same team that had an embarrassing  loss last night to IPFW and ISU also NEARLY beat Duke and UL.  It did beat ND on Sat and I was elated!  This team is a work in progress with a new system and new coach.  WE ARE NOT DONE WITH THE ROLLER COASTER RIDE--IT IS JUST BEGINNING!  I just hope we can play well enough to get into post season play.  Right now that will probably only be NIT.  However, there is still a lot of BB to be played.  The season is only half over.  For the long term, I still believe in CAM.  For the rest of the year, I still think this team will improve.  I will be here for the ups and the downs just like always.

[CampHoosier]

The losses IU has cannot make up for wins they will have. This team will have to win 22-23 games to have a prayer at the tournament 

[NCHoosier32]

so... i would never stop watching or supporting the Hoosier bball team.  i barely missed a game the worst year in history.  i am also not ready to complain about Archie.  obviously we need time to see how his system and coaching are going to pan out.  that said, i was so surprised when so many on here jumped on the Johnson bandwagon after the ND game.  he is going to get his shots because that's all he cares about, so there are going to be games that he scores a lot.  he still hurts this team.  people are saying that now, but i encourage you not to be fooled when he has his next high scoring game.  coach needs to slowly take his minutes away in attempt to not completely make him a cancer.  otherwise, i wish he'd just stop playing him now.  CLEARLY the same with Newkirk.  going to be tough for CAM to do though.  i would love nothing more than to see him start giving the major minutes to the future.  Durham, Davis, Morgan, Smith, Green, even Moore.  i know so many on here are huge fans of McRoberts and Hartman, and sure they play harder and smarter than Newkirk and Johnson, but they aren't part of the future either.  i also hear all the complaints about our 3 point shooting.  that is clear, but the answer is to take less.  when you have a team that can't shoot the 3, take fewer and get the ball to the post or get to the basket!

[NCHoosier32]

oh, and i truly can't believe that we are even discussing what this team would have to do to make the tourney.  i can't see how that is even a goal at this point.

[HoosierCPA]

Archie is my coach through and through, but I question his defensive strategy of protect the paint at all costs and let them beat you with three's.  When a team's strength is shooting three's, you're asking for trouble.  Imagine telling CTC's teams we want you to beat us with three's - Jordan Hulls would be salivating.  I think it's fine to start out a game with that strategy, but once you see a team can't miss, you've got to MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT.  We clearly couldn't guard them straight up, as we were making their guards look like Steph Curry.  De'Ron's defenders made him look like he was running with concrete in his shoes.

[bstall76]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

oh, and i truly can't believe that we are even discussing what this team would have to do to make the tourney.  i can't see how that is even a goal at this point.

I agree, I think a real goal is to finish the season. . 500 or better. With how we played tonight I am not sure that is even realistic.  I have a feeling we will see more gems like tonight than we will like the ND game.  At this point I would rather lose with underclassmen and walk on energy and effort than upperclassmen apathy and laziness.  

[BGleas]

Just now, HoosierCPA said:

Archie is my coach through and through, but I question his defensive strategy of protect the paint at all costs and let them beat you with three's.  When a team's strength is shooting three's, you're asking for trouble.  Imagine telling CTC's teams we want you to beat us with three's - Jordan Hulls would be salivating.  I think it's fine to start out a game with that strategy, but once you see a team can't miss, you've got to MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT.  We clearly couldn't guard them straight up, as we were making their guards look like Steph Curry.  De'Ron's defenders made him look like he was running with concrete in his shoes.

I agree to a point, as the game is evolving giving up a high volume of 3’s is not the best strategy. But with that said, I think you’ll see this defense much better when we have a bunch of 6’6” to 6’8” athletic wings on the team. 

[HoosierCPA]

Just to add insult to injury:

 

[BGleas]

9 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

so... i would never stop watching or supporting the Hoosier bball team.  i barely missed a game the worst year in history.  i am also not ready to complain about Archie.  obviously we need time to see how his system and coaching are going to pan out.  that said, i was so surprised when so many on here jumped on the Johnson bandwagon after the ND game.  he is going to get his shots because that's all he cares about, so there are going to be games that he scores a lot.  he still hurts this team.  people are saying that now, but i encourage you not to be fooled when he has his next high scoring game.  coach needs to slowly take his minutes away in attempt to not completely make him a cancer.  otherwise, i wish he'd just stop playing him now.  CLEARLY the same with Newkirk.  going to be tough for CAM to do though.  i would love nothing more than to see him start giving the major minutes to the future.  Durham, Davis, Morgan, Smith, Green, even Moore.  i know so many on here are huge fans of McRoberts and Hartman, and sure they play harder and smarter than Newkirk and Johnson, but they aren't part of the future either.  i also hear all the complaints about our 3 point shooting.  that is clear, but the answer is to take less.  when you have a team that can't shoot the 3, take fewer and get the ball to the post or get to the basket!

Agree on RoJo, but what makes limiting his minutes tough is that as bad as he’s been he is still our best perimeter defender. 

[hoosier10]

8 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Robert Johnson is a four year, major minute playing, top 50 recruit role player. He really never got better. I'm not sure I've ever seen a guy play major minutes so four years and not improve like he has. 

I'd challenge anyone to find a worse 1000 point scorer in IU history.  I hate his game so much 

[FW_Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, HoosierCPA said:

Archie is my coach through and through, but I question his defensive strategy of protect the paint at all costs and let them beat you with three's.  When a team's strength is shooting three's, you're asking for trouble.  Imagine telling CTC's teams we want you to beat us with three's - Jordan Hulls would be salivating.  I think it's fine to start out a game with that strategy, but once you see a team can't miss, you've got to MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT.  We clearly couldn't guard them straight up, as we were making their guards look like Steph Curry.  De'Ron's defenders made him look like he was running with concrete in his shoes.

Decided to look up if Archie’s Dayton teams got torched from three like we have been this season.  Through 12 games, IU is allowing its opponents to shoot 41.3% from three (wow), which puts us at 342nd in the nation.  Here are those stats from Archie’s years at Dayton:

11-12: 33.5% (137th)

12-13: 35.3% (253rd)

13-14: 33.2% (115th)

14-15: 32.4% (81st)

15-16: 34.9% (203rd)

16-17: 32.5% (56th)

So his Dayton teams finished in the top 100 in 3FG% defense twice, they were a bad 3FG% defense twice, and they were a middle of the pack 3FG% defense twice.  I agree with BGleas that this should improve when Archie gets the length he wants into the program.  At the same time, we all wanted a coach who could adapt to the roster he has.  It’s on Archie to change up the game plan when we’re getting lit up from beyond the arc.

[cohete15]

12 minutes ago, HoosierCPA said:

Just to add insult to injury:

 

Definitely stings. But for what it's worth, he spent most of his time chatting it up with the blonde to his right (not pictured) and laughing at stuff on his phone. 

My impression is that if he doesn't really want to come to IU, he doesn't come to that lame matchup last night on a week night.