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Deron Davis- The Ghost


hoosier10

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3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The last two games have just been terrible match-ups for Davis. Because of his physical limitations some teams are going to present problems for him. You can't have him out on the perimeter chasing 3-pt shooting bigs like ND and FW have. He's too slow to rotate back and it jacks things up. He'll be great against teams like Duke and Purdue who have bigs that largely stay in the paint. 

And what 3-pt shooting big are you talking about from ND?

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I don't think DD has it in him to be a top caliber player unless he dramatically improves his lateral quickness.  Until he does that, he will always be a liability on defense.  Some games he will be fine in but others, he will be forced to ride the pine because of matchups against Bonzie Colson-esque players.  And top players don't get forced to sit because of match-ups.

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8 minutes ago, rico said:

Hmmmmm........plenty of blame to be passed around, but where was DD in the ND game?  He disappeared in a game we won.  

See G's post above. 

How did he do against Duke? 6-7 for 16, 5 boards, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 TO. Just calling him lazy or a poor player is so off.

He's not a running big, fair. He's not exceptionally athletic, fair. He has trouble with teams who pull bigs outside, fair. Lazy, that's a lazy assessment itself.

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

And what 3-pt shooting big are you talking about from ND?

Sorry, should have said perimeter bigs. ND doesn't have your classic back-to-the-basket bigs. They use their bigs constantly in pick and roll situations. Colson, though he does post-up, is constantly on the perimeter in the pick and roll. Mooney is also a perimeter big who can shoot 3's, and otherwise they don't really have true bigs. De'Ron is a classic, old-school big and the way the game has changed there are going to be matchups that simply don't work for him and ND and FW are both examples. 

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

See G's post above. 

How did he do against Duke? 6-7 for 16, 5 boards, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 TO. Just calling him lazy or a poor player is so off.

He's not a running big, fair. He's not exceptionally athletic, fair. He has trouble with teams who pull bigs outside, fair. Lazy, that's a lazy assessment itself.

See my response to G's.

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Sorry, should have said perimeter bigs. ND doesn't have your classic back-to-the-basket bigs. They use their bigs constantly in pick and roll situations. Colson, though he does post-up, is constantly on the perimeter in the pick and roll. Mooney is also a perimeter big who can shoot 3's, and otherwise they don't really have true bigs. De'Ron is a classic, old-school big and the way the game has changed there are going to be matchups that simply don't work for him and ND and FW are both examples. 

I know what you are saying but it doesn't apply to the Notre Dame game or the Irish team.  Davis just went MIA in it.  

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1 minute ago, rico said:

I know what you are saying but it doesn't apply to the Notre Dame game or the Irish team.  Davis just went MIA in it.  

Yes it does apply, though other factors were at play as well. The main other factor was that Morgan was dominating the post offensively, so along with Davis' perimeter defensive issues it didn't make sense to have two post-up bigs in at the same time when Morgan was on fire. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yes it does apply, though other factors were at play as well. The main other factor was that Morgan was dominating the post offensively, so along with Davis' perimeter defensive issues it didn't make sense to have two post-up bigs in at the same time when Morgan was on fire. 

Who was Morgan guarding?

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, rico said:

And so did I.

It applies. I don't know why you're so bent on denigrating Davis. Gleas's points are dead on here. Davis has his faults, perfectly fair to say he's not a running big and has limitations, but then you're just ignoring games like Duke and the promise Davis has shown in those games. You're entitled to your opinion, not meaning to be disrespectful of it (and if I sound like I am, my apologies), but I disagree with it and the idea that calling him lazy is ok.

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1 minute ago, rico said:

 

My recollection is that when Davis was in Morgan was guarding Colson. When Hartman was in he and Morgan they tended to switch a bit between Colson and either a perimeter player when ND went small or Mooney who spent as lot of time on the perimeter.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It applies. I don't know why you're so bent on denigrating Davis. Gleas's points are dead on here. Davis has his faults, perfectly fair to say he's not a running big and has limitations, but then you're just ignoring games like Duke and the promise Davis has shown in those games. You're entitled to your opinion, not meaning to be disrespectful of it (and if I sound like I am, my apologies), but I disagree with it and the idea that calling him lazy is ok.

I never called him lazy.

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It applies. I don't know why you're so bent on denigrating Davis. Gleas's points are dead on here. Davis has his faults, perfectly fair to say he's not a running big and has limitations, but then you're just ignoring games like Duke and the promise Davis has shown in those games. You're entitled to your opinion, not meaning to be disrespectful of it (and if I sound like I am, my apologies), but I disagree with it and the idea that calling him lazy is ok.

I expect Davis to be a major part of the lineup when we play teams with traditional bigs. When we play teams with essentially four perimeter players he's going to struggle. It just limits the defense because you can''t do any switching, etc. Duke quite often had two tradiitonal bigs playing at the same time and Davis thrived in that game. He'll do well against Purdue, and other teams like that. 

He'll struggle against teams that have faster, more agile bigs that set screens and flare for jumpers or 3-pointers. 

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

Well, he can't guard Colson, and Mooney hangs around the 3-pt line so that's not a good match-up, everyone else that plays major minutes on ND is a perimeter player, which De'Ron can't defend. Then again, add to it Juwon dominating the block offensively so having De'Ron on the opposite block just clogs the paint. Bad match-up. 

Tell me who he should have been guarding?

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43 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The last two games have just been terrible match-ups for Davis. Because of his physical limitations some teams are going to present problems for him. You can't have him out on the perimeter chasing 3-pt shooting bigs like ND and FW have. He's too slow to rotate back and it jacks things up. He'll be great against teams like Duke and Purdue who have bigs that largely stay in the paint. 

I think it’s a question with regards to how well he’ll fare against Purdue. I think Haas will pose problems for Davis when Davis is guarding him and Haarms could really bother him with his length/shotblocking ability. Haas isn’t as good of a defender but I expect Haas will rack up plenty of fouls on DD. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Well, he can't guard Colson, and Mooney hangs around the 3-pt line so that's not a good match-up, everyone else that plays major minutes on ND is a perimeter player, which De'Ron can't defend. Then again, add to it Juwon dominating the block offensively so having De'Ron on the opposite block just clogs the paint. Bad match-up. 

Tell me who he should have been guarding?

The pine which was exactly what he did.  The second best player on IU and gets 18 minutes?  Let's flip this since it seems you are set on the defensive end.  Why couldn't Davis dominate on the offensive end?

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

The pine which was exactly what he did.  The second best player on IU and gets 18 minutes?  Let's flip this since it seems you are set on the defensive end.  Why couldn't Davis dominate on the offensive end?

Because Morgan was dominating. Add it all up and I'm not sure why this isn't making sense? There's nobody for Davis to guard and he'll jack up the rotations trying to plod his way around the perimeter, and then our other big is literally dominating the block on offense so where does Davis go on that end? It was a tailor made game for us to go small with Morgan essentially at the 5. 

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9 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I think it’s a question with regards to how well he’ll fare against Purdue. I think Haas will pose problems for Davis when Davis is guarding him and Haarms could really bother him with his length/shotblocking ability. Haas isn’t as good of a defender but I expect Haas will rack up plenty of fouls on DD. 

I didn't mean he'd necessarily dominate Purdue. I just meant the matchup lends itself to Davis getting more minutes. Depends on who brings their game that night, Davis could do great and control that game, or Purdue's bigs could, fouls will probably play a big par, but the match-up lends itself to Davis being a big part of the plan for IU. 

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I didn't mean he'd necessarily dominate Purdue. I just meant the matchup lends itself to Davis getting more minutes. Depends on who brings their game that night, Davis could do great and control that game, or Purdue's bigs could, fouls will probably play a big par, but the match-up lends itself to Davis being a big part of the plan for IU. 

Makes sense. 

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1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

See G's post above. 

How did he do against Duke? 6-7 for 16, 5 boards, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 TO. Just calling him lazy or a poor player is so off.

He's not a running big, fair. He's not exceptionally athletic, fair. He has trouble with teams who pull bigs outside, fair. Lazy, that's a lazy assessment itself.

We need a big who is going to show up for 35 games...not 1,2,3 or 4 games

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57 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Because Morgan was dominating. Add it all up and I'm not sure why this isn't making sense? There's nobody for Davis to guard and he'll jack up the rotations trying to plod his way around the perimeter, and then our other big is literally dominating the block on offense so where does Davis go on that end? It was a tailor made game for us to go small with Morgan essentially at the 5. 

What doesn't make sense is giving an excuse like "match-ups".  And then saying you got 1 guy dominating on the block.  Hmmmmm......I guess it didn't work with Tolbert/Turner and neither did it with Garrett/D.Thomas.  The latter was in the age of the 3-point shot.  So explain this once again to me now that I am all worked up.

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Just now, rico said:

What doesn't make sense is giving an excuse like "match-ups".  And then saying you got 1 guy dominating on the block.  Hmmmmm......I guess it didn't work with Tolbert/Turner and neither did it with Garrett/D.Thomas.  The latter was in the age of the 3-point shot.  So explain this once again to me now that I am all worked up.

Really, you're channeling players from 30+ years ago? Have you paid any attention to how the game has drastically changed over the last 30 years, even the last 10-15 years? 

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