5fouls Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just now, Hoosierhoopster said: This year's Wisconsin team is another animal. They're a bad team. I don't consider it a likely loss, more like a who knows, which for me applies for most of our games. I thought the timing of your thread here was kind of interesting. We just played a good game, really, all around. We clearly played a horrible game, all around, against FW. But the guys also have shown the ability to play well, including against teams like Duke, Louisville and ND. I said interesting because at the start of the year you were more optimistic than most on this team's chances, and discounted the loss of 3 double digit scorers to the NBA. I was not optimistic. I wouldn't say I'm really optimistic now, but I see reason to believe we can do better than this projection. The timing has nothing to do with anything other that the Big Ten season is around the corner and there is not much else to talk about during the Holidays. Apologies to the Penguins, but it would be difficult to talk about Youngstown State for two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said: i like the optimism that some still show after a win. wait til the next loss and people will be back to realizing this is nowhere near a tourney team. .500 seems like a reasonable goal. do we forget how hard it is to win a B1G game on the road even against the weaker teams? .500 in the conference for this team would be a really nice surprise to me. Realizing, or pessimism? The flip side here is this view is the glass half empty view. Why is that when the team just played well, all around, people should "realize" that the team sucks? You're right, it's very hard to with in the B1G on the road, and there's lot of reasons (FW, what a disaster) to think the team will fold. But do you then just discount the way the team played last night, against ND, Duke and Louisville, etc.? It's not like this team has been consistently bad, it's that it's been, well, inconsistent. If inconsistency is this team's image, it will crash. But, objectively, there's reason to think they're turning, or on their way to turning, the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: The timing has nothing to do with anything other that the Big Ten season is around the corner and there is not much else to talk about during the Holidays. Apologies to the Penguins, but it would be difficult to talk about Youngstown State for two weeks. I thought you of all people would talk about Youngstown for two weeks. Who was that other team you kept talking about....? Seriously though, as to timing I was referring to the negative outlook the projection shows, posted after we played a good game. Sure, that was a mediocre team that an IU team should beat, soundly, at home. But, well, there's FW, and this team was very much like FW, quick, with good outside shooters, and our guys played a very solid game on both sides of the ball. I'm just saying that while the awful losses are there, there's also reason to think the team is improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Realizing, or pessimism? The flip side here is this view is the glass half empty view. Why is that when the team just played well, all around, people should "realize" that the team sucks? You're right, it's very hard to with in the B1G on the road, and there's lot of reasons (FW, what a disaster) to think the team will fold. But do you then just discount the way the team played last night, against ND, Duke and Louisville, etc.? It's not like this team has been consistently bad, it's that it's been, well, inconsistent. If inconsistency is this team's image, it will crash. But, objectively, there's reason to think they're turning, or on their way to turning, the corner. admitted pessimism for sure. i love watching the Hoosiers and will always hope for the best, but i am a very hesitant fan by nature. that said, i go back to my preseason argument when everyone picked us no better than 7th-9th in the conference other than our fans. now they're saying we're 12th and we are talking about making the tourney. that's just not me. i'm sure it's much more fun being my opposite, but again, that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just now, NCHoosier32 said: admitted pessimism for sure. i love watching the Hoosiers and will always hope for the best, but i am a very hesitant fan by nature. that said, i go back to my preseason argument when everyone picked us no better than 7th-9th in the conference other than our fans. now they're saying we're 12th and we are talking about making the tourney. that's just not me. i'm sure it's much more fun being my opposite, but again, that's me. Cool -- and healthy pessimism in my book is a good thing. Not meaning to say otherwise. I like looking at the picture from all perspectives, all of them add to how to break down where things stand. Your point about winning on the road in the B1G being very hard, and that a .500 season being a reasonable goal, are absolutely fair points. Also think it's fair to say this team has shown improvement -- maybe of the two steps forward one step back kind -- to give reason to think they'll step up in conference play. Have to like the way they clamped down on D, limited our TO's to 10 and forced the other guys into high TO's leading to points off TO's, and shared the scoring with the senior guards taking care of the ball. Will that keep up? Don't know, reasons are there for all of these views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Cool -- and healthy pessimism in my book is a good thing. Not meaning to say otherwise. I like looking at the picture from all perspectives, all of them add to how to break down where things stand. Your point about winning on the road in the B1G being very hard, and that a .500 season being a reasonable goal, are absolutely fair points. Also think it's fair to say this team has shown improvement -- maybe of the two steps forward one step back kind -- to give reason to think they'll step up in conference play. Have to like the way they clamped down on D, limited our TO's to 10 and forced the other guys into high TO's leading to points off TO's, and shared the scoring with the senior guards taking care of the ball. Will that keep up? Don't know, reasons are there for all of these views. certainly agree that anything can happen any game with this team! my main problem is that i have no faith in Newkirk and Johnson when we need them and we definitely need them to have a respectable season. i think we'll see each have good games here and there because they mainly look for their's. i just don't take much at all away from looking good against Tennessee Tech. i take more away from your points of how we played Duke, Louisville, and ND, but when i add up how many road B1G games we have plus some that we're not gonna win at home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 The thing is, the ND game appears to be much more the outlier than the ISU and IPFW games. We lost to ISU by 21, Seton Hall by 16, Duke by 10, Michigan by 14, Louisville by 9, and IPFW by 20. As IU fans, we looked at the positives in some of those losses, especially Duke and Louisville. But in reality, we weren’t really close to winning any of those games. If any other team had those same losses, we would be predicting them to finish at the very bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: The thing is, the ND game appears to be much more the outlier than the ISU and IPFW games. We lost to ISU by 21, Seton Hall by 16, Duke by 10, Michigan by 14, Louisville by 9, and IPFW by 20. As IU fans, we looked at the positives in some of those losses, especially Duke and Louisville. But in reality, we weren’t really close to winning any of those games. If any other team had those same losses, we would be predicting them to finish at the very bottom of the league. Disagree. Context is relevant. If I saw Purdue had those losses, you're right, I would predict them to finish near the bottom of the league. But I would do that, knowing I didn't watch a single minute of their games. Louisville was a 2-4 point game with 2 minutes left. Tied with Duke with 4 minutes left. The final score was not indicative of how the game was played. It's just like football games the other way around...a team flat dominates the game, they're up 28-0 in the 4th, and the final is 31-17. You think the winning team was only 2 TD's better? No...which is why context is relevant. Like em or not, that's why the CFP committee was formed. The idea that we "weren't close to winning any of those games" is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 41 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: The thing is, the ND game appears to be much more the outlier than the ISU and IPFW games. We lost to ISU by 21, Seton Hall by 16, Duke by 10, Michigan by 14, Louisville by 9, and IPFW by 20. As IU fans, we looked at the positives in some of those losses, especially Duke and Louisville. But in reality, we weren’t really close to winning any of those games. If any other team had those same losses, we would be predicting them to finish at the very bottom of the league. I agree with you on Seton Hall, Michigan and probably Louisville, but as far as the Duke game, that's a much different finish if Davis could hit his free throws. If I remember correctly, it was a one possession game down the stretch when Davis had consecutive possessions of missing 4 free throws with Duke scoring on both of their ensuing possessions. Hit free throws and IU maybe wins that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 We're 7-6, with losses at home to Indiana State and IPFW by a combined 40 points. We have beaten one team who is even remotely good. We've gone on the road three times and got pounded two of those games. KenPom, an objective ratings service, slots us 12th in the league. We're also 12th in the Sagarin rankings. At some point you are who your record says you are. I haven't lost hope. I think our ceiling is higher than the team we currently are. But looking at things objectively, we are going to have to play much better than we have been to reach .500 in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Well we know one thing is for sure........win the BTT and we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, cohete15 said: Disagree. Context is relevant. If I saw Purdue had those losses, you're right, I would predict them to finish near the bottom of the league. But I would do that, knowing I didn't watch a single minute of their games. Louisville was a 2-4 point game with 2 minutes left. Tied with Duke with 4 minutes left. The final score was not indicative of how the game was played. It's just like football games the other way around...a team flat dominates the game, they're up 28-0 in the 4th, and the final is 31-17. You think the winning team was only 2 TD's better? No...which is why context is relevant. Like em or not, that's why the CFP committee was formed. The idea that we "weren't close to winning any of those games" is crazy. So we kept it close against Duke and Louisville, and fell apart at the end. We were beating IPFW at halftime and fell apart in the second half. Similar collapse against Seton Hall. That’s kind of this team’s whole problem. With the exception of maybe Juwan, this team doesn’t have anyone that’s going to consistently make winning plays in close games against quality teams. And with our total lack of offensive firepower, along with our relatively frequent mental lapses and soft play on defense, I have a feeling we’re going to be seeing a lot more of those collapses. I just don’t think this team has it in them to put together 40 minutes of quality play against good opponents on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Shooter said: We're 7-6, with losses at home to Indiana State and IPFW by a combined 40 points. We have beaten one team who is even remotely good. We've gone on the road three times and got pounded two of those games. KenPom, an objective ratings service, slots us 12th in the league. We're also 12th in the Sagarin rankings. At some point you are who your record says you are. I haven't lost hope. I think our ceiling is higher than the team we currently are. But looking at things objectively, we are going to have to play much better than we have been to reach .500 in the league. this is pretty much what i'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cohete15 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 58 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: So we kept it close against Duke and Louisville, and fell apart at the end. We were beating IPFW at halftime and fell apart in the second half. Similar collapse against Seton Hall. That’s kind of this team’s whole problem. With the exception of maybe Juwan, this team doesn’t have anyone that’s going to consistently make winning plays in close games against quality teams. And with our total lack of offensive firepower, along with our relatively frequent mental lapses and soft play on defense, I have a feeling we’re going to be seeing a lot more of those collapses. I just don’t think this team has it in them to put together 40 minutes of quality play against good opponents on a consistent basis. I’m with ya. We haven’t played 40 minutes too often. We definitely lack offensive firepower, but I think we can do things to win because we get in position to win. I think it’s a learning process on how to win those tough games when it’s close. A lot of that is mental. Make your possessions count, slow the mind down, don’t panic, don’t be a hero. I thought the Notre Dame win was a sign that we are starting to put together a 40 minute, hard fought game. And that we were coming together. Last nights team was the same team against ND. Same team against Iowa. The Fort Wayne game was the only one I’ve been super disappointed in the way we played since ISU. IMO, that’s not representative of what we see from here on out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, cohete15 said: I’m with ya. We haven’t played 40 minutes too often. We definitely lack offensive firepower, but I think we can do things to win because we get in position to win. I think it’s a learning process on how to win those tough games when it’s close. A lot of that is mental. Make your possessions count, slow the mind down, don’t panic, don’t be a hero. I thought the Notre Dame win was a sign that we are starting to put together a 40 minute, hard fought game. And that we were coming together. Last nights team was the same team against ND. Same team against Iowa. The Fort Wayne game was the only one I’ve been super disappointed in the way we played since ISU. IMO, that’s not representative of what we see from here on out. This is largely how I see it as well. It looks like, taking the 500 foot view, it's starting to come together for the team as a group. The FW game was a disaster, but it was a step back towards early season and not representative of what the team's been moving towards over the past few games. I think this past game was pretty encouraging, not in terms of the strength of the opponent, but in how the team approached the game on both ends of the floor, and in taking care of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUguy Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 17 hours ago, 5fouls said: KenPom currently has us 12th in the BIG. Ranked ahead of only Illinois and Rutgers. Based on how this team has played so far, that is probably a reasonable projection. However, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, consistency is the key. This means getting some consistent outside shooting and limiting turnovers. If that happens, IU can do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 As poorly as we have played at times, and as bleak as the picture seems to be that so many paint of our program...I can't help but feel optimistic and confident about CAM , his staff, and the vision he has for his team. First time in awhile where I don't feel we are at a disadvantage from the opening tip because the coach on the other bench is superior. How this translates into performance this year is really inconsequential in my mind. I think we will end up middle of the pack in conference and we'll gladly (unlike last year) accept an NIT bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Jerry Lundergaard said: As poorly as we have played at times, and as bleak as the picture seems to be that so many paint of our program...I can't help but feel optimistic and confident about CAM , his staff, and the vision he has for his team. First time in awhile where I don't feel we are at a disadvantage from the opening tip because the coach on the other bench is superior. How this translates into performance this year is really inconsequential in my mind. I think we will end up middle of the pack in conference and we'll gladly (unlike last year) accept an NIT bid. I agree with everything you said up until the last sentence. We did play in the NIT last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, rico said: I agree with everything you said up until the last sentence. We did play in the NIT last year. Yes we did... what I meant was that we didn't accept the offer gladly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosiertildeath Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 I can see at this point in time the best chances for any B10 wins are going to be versus IOWA 8 & 6 [ already have a win over them at home ] , Illinois 9 & 5, Rutgers 10 & 5 , Wisconsin 7 & 7 , Northwestern 9 & 5 , Nebraska 9 & 5 , and maybe Penn State 10 & 4 ! Unless the Hoosiers show some team IMPROVEMENT from the way that they have played thus far , I think B10 WINS are gonna be few and far between !! Her's hoping they do show that IMPROVEMENT ( Starting with the final NON-Conference game tonight)) Go "Archie & The Gang , get your act together !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 I think Big 10's historically bad this year and as CAM said in his recent radio show other than 2 top dogs (MSU and PU), it's up for grabs. If we don't regress towards the end of season, we can finish top 7 or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Terry Hutchens fairly gloomy about IU's Big Ten prospects. http://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/terry-hutchens-column-gazing-into-my-crystal-ball/article_db0f0718-eb5d-11e7-8a53-bb5dbc6b1fd1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 37 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Terry Hutchens fairly gloomy about IU's Big Ten prospects. http://www.heraldbulletin.com/sports/terry-hutchens-column-gazing-into-my-crystal-ball/article_db0f0718-eb5d-11e7-8a53-bb5dbc6b1fd1.html I agree with this article 100% actually. Hutch is always pretty reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 "a little good, a lot of bad and a little bit of ugly at times" This pretty much sums up how this year's team has performed so far. I can't deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaz13 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 12/21/2017 at 11:18 PM, 5fouls said: I have watched Wisconsin. I've also watched us play in the Kohl Center the last 20 years. That's a likely loss this early in the conference season. If it was later in the schedule, I may have considered it a swing game. That 20 years of Kohl Center misery has nothing to do with this year! The later IU catches Wiscy the greater the chance it comes after they pull a typical Wiscy and end up in 4th or 5th. Even if they don't ultimately rise up this year, catching a team earlier on should always be more favorable than when teams generally begin to make a bit more strides, if they're under a coach worth their paycheck. I don't see them completely bottoming out late season, and even if IU isn't very good right now, Wisconsin isn't much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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