Jump to content

It’s time... Fire Archie Miller


Recommended Posts

I don't have an answer for this team right now, only suggestions...... On that note, we all respected the insight, well thought out, educated posts which both ColonelCrester and MileHIU often submitted at times like this. Knowing the kind of men they were and how they viewed things,.....what would they be saying right now? Deep down we know....

I loved reading their post after wins and losses. They really made me look at things differently. My blood pressure appreciated those reads.....I sure miss them both. Go IU!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree, that was absolutely another headscratching moment. I too remember that senior day and was also expecting some big emotional connection between Archie and Juwan Morgan. 

Maybe it would have happened anyway, but the fact is Archie was the coach when Morgan got his chance to be the man, show what he can do, and lead a Big Ten team. Sure the results weren't always great, but Archie is the one that handed Morgan the ball and let him lead the program. 

I thought there would be some bond over that.  But as you said, Morgan hardly even mentioned Archie and actually talked more about Devonte Green convincing him not to transfer than anything else. 

There's just been a lack of emotion and a lack of passion from this program since Archie got here. 

There's no enthusiasm, where it be from the fans, players or coaches, and its been that way for 4 years. 

Calbert was able to connect with kids on that level. Create a bond with them. They wanted to impress him. Give their all. He offered wisdom and experience that would translate to the next level. That’s the kind of things being said to me in my conversations with certain people. At one point, it was apparent that Calbert was more respected and liked by the players than Crean. So they parted ways. We see how that turned out. 

I think that’s the same connection that we seen in Michigan when Beileins kids started to get rolling. If you watch Michigan now, you can still see that culture. Howard doesn’t have to be the best strategist. He just has to be a respectable leader and get the most out of who he brings in. He can surround himself by people that will compliment his weakness. Which I think he has already done. 

I gave my opinion years ago. When IU turned down the 7 million plus that was being sought by a big time coach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archie is and probably always will be a super control freak.  Most coaches are control freaks but he takes it to an extraordinary level.  These kids now he has his favorites who have leashes longer than the Nile river and others who just have no leash at all.  It’s time to move on, the money is there and always will be there.  Will Dolson use the pandemic to buy Archie more time or will he be ahead of the curve and pull the trigger after this year?  I’m guessing the former because it’s who IU has and probably will always be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jblaz13 said:

If you're wondering what point I might be trying to imply, 

it is merely that the timing doesn't appear to be able to get much worse for potemtially shelling bonuses , raising the pay,  and replacing departed  football staff while considering and amassing resources needed to do another buyout housecleaning of the basketball staff .

Then make a clear obvious move up the perceived coaching name value ladder as some have alluded directly to here .

I just worry about the costs of one coming at the expense of the other without anything coming in at the gates.

 

This university has hundreds of million if not billions at their disposal in endowments.  Paying a coach another 5 mil a year is not going to break them.  And honestly i have very little sympathy for universities if they can't weather a few lean years without going under. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, rico said:

I let reality set in with me quite a few games back.  And tbh I have more questions than I have answers. 

Purdue started out hot from behind the arc...yet no adjustment was made.  It is like the defense was set up to "hope they miss."  And it stayed that way the whole game.

Al and Rob were cornjerkin', which we are used to, but still no adjustment in a "must have" game.

There never was a sense of urgency, which pisses me off, with under 10 minutes to go.  

I could go on and on.  But it boils down to Arch better find a way to win and win now.  This fan is sick and tired of waiting.  No excuses, I want wins.  If he can't win this season then I want a coach who can next season.

To slightly disagree we did make an adjustment and came out pressured the ball and fought over screens the last 3 to 4 mins of 1st half and kept them scoreless. After halftime back to the old plan but we still went over screens and PU made adjustments for more tight curls and less flares. Once the ball hit the paint we collapse and kick out open 3's. It nice to see a coach make adjustments just wish it was ours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Calbert was able to connect with kids on that level. Create a bond with them. They wanted to impress him. Give their all. He offered wisdom and experience that would translate to the next level. That’s the kind of things being said to me in my conversations with certain people. At one point, it was apparent that Calbert was more respected and liked by the players than Crean. So they parted ways. We see how that turned out. 

I think that’s the same connection that we seen in Michigan when Beileins kids started to get rolling. If you watch Michigan now, you can still see that culture. Howard doesn’t have to be the best strategist. He just has to be a respectable leader and get the most out of who he brings in. He can surround himself by people that will compliment his weakness. Which I think he has already done. 

I gave my opinion years ago. When IU turned down the 7 million plus that was being sought by a big time coach.

And he also seems to acknowledge his weaknesses something Archie can’t and will not do.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

Archie after the game “This team has to be able to get some stops and find a way to play defensively very tight and very tough-minded. It has to find a way to have its defense as something that it can rely on because offense is hard.” 
 
I’m sorry but there are quite a bit of teams out there that don’t make offense look hard at all. Crean pushed so hard to have a high flying offense because he didn’t know how to coach defense...Now Archie is pushing so hard at thinking the only key is having a sound defense because he must not know too much about having a good offense. 

CAM teach them how to guard the BLOB, screen the screener = layup every time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Evolution or extinction. Looking like extinction for Archie. 

IU has been a flawed product on the court since Sampson got fired (flawed off the court with him)

College basketball is getting to be near unwatchable due to bad refs, lack of player continuity, player apathy (due to AAU, focus on NBA/life changing $, generation) and a myriad of other reasons and IU basketball is right in line with it. 

Very sad (in a sports context, irrelevant in the grand scheme of life)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Euroclydon said:

Back to reality - Archie is not going anywhere anytime soon. IU is facing financial issues already due to covid and the shutdown. His buyout is $13+ million. That's just half of the problem. Who do you replace him with that you would reasonably believe can turn things around quickly and how much would that cost? The answer is, it costs more than IU is WILLING to pay. 

Fixed it for you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not saying I want it either way, but just trying to gauge where people think we will be at seasons end and likelihood of things...Let’s say we lose most of the games remaining in the season...will it really be enough for Archie to be let go, or will there be other factors that most likely outweigh and prevent that from happening? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

Some good points here, but I would just say the season isn't over yet. We are seeing some good things on the court - Armaan Franklin is going to be a spectacular player, Race Thompson is playing better and better, and the freshman group is getting good minutes and producing. I'd say the most disappointing thing ... again ... is the production we're not getting from our upperclassmen guards. Rob was ok, Al was mostly non-existent, and the shooting. 

I get the frustration, especially after losing again to Purdue, and I get all of the questions about Archie, and I have them, too. But, I've also seen glimpses of how good this team can be, and I'm also seeing the effort on the court. We weren't missing effort last night, we just can't shoot the basketball, even when we get wide open shots or are standing at the FT line with no one in front of us. Look at the numbers - shoot just 30% from 3, which is still kinda bad, and our usual below average percentage from the line, and it's a W. It's entirely possible CAM has everything working except the actual shooting, and that can be fixed.

Also, I'd love to see the shot chart, because I would wager it was very similar to Purdue's.

We're good against mediocre talented teams.  Thats when we're good.  Against talent, we just dont' stack up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, the best word to describe my feelings about the CAM tenure is "disappointment".  I like the guy.  He represents the university admirably, seems like a stand-up person in control of his emotions, and requires his players to be good student athletes.  These traits DO mean something, so it makes everything that follows just that much more difficult to come to grips with.

There are multiple paths to turning a program around or propelling it to the next level.  Coach and inspire the players you have to scrap and grind every game - Pat Chambers did this at PSU.  You can recruit extraordinarily driven, pit-bull players that have modest to good basketball skills. You can recruit studs that lessen the importance of coaching and X's and O's.  The truth is we have almost none of the grit and determined play.  We have had perhaps 2 "difference maker" players, with one of them being a one-and-done.  I remember toward the end of the first CAM season commenting that we then knew Archie couldn't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear (i.e. couldn't "coach 'em up" to victories or over achievement).

We can debate whether the in-state recruiting has been stellar or not ("lock down the state") - IMO, it has been good but not great).  Our out of state recruiting deserves an "F" rating.  Not one difference maker has stepped onto the floor for CAM.  Race is the only player from out of state that approaches "starter" level quality.

And finally, we come to the actual X's and O's part of the analysis.  Our team defense has improved substantially over the 4 years, albeit partly because "D" was non-existent in the CTC years.  As much as it has improved, it still has weak points with failure to defend the 3 being the most glaring.  Our offense is, well, painful and inexplicable to watch.  Perhaps because we are, as a team, poor shooters IDK, but shooting has been a sore spot for all four of CAM's seasons here.  FT shooting just bolsters that assertion.

Time is not on Archie's side at all.  Like many others, I think it's very unlikely he'll be dismissed before 2022 due to financial considerations and IU's history of excessive tolerance of underachievement.  If his evaluation were to occur in March, 2022 it must be based on all 5 years.  Unless somehow he manages to right the ship to a herculean extent (like E8/FF level success), I don't see how you can confidently extend his contract - let alone give him the type of money he's making now.

I'd love to be wrong, but I think it's fairly clear CAM hasn't, nor is likely to, come close to the expectations we have for IU basketball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, IUrocker said:

Not saying I want it either way, but just trying to gauge where people think we will be at seasons end and likelihood of things...Let’s say we lose most of the games remaining in the season...will it really be enough for Archie to be let go, or will there be other factors that most likely outweigh and prevent that from happening? 

Not really, unless they work something out ahead of time where CAM already has another place to go, which will automatically offset the payout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

I'm warming up to the idea of Calbert head, Lewis and Fife assisting.  Isn't Jordy looking at getting into coaching?  Lord knows we need a shooting coach. 

But reality is one more year.

I would prefer we go Big game hunting as mentioned earlier.  Go find you a whale.  You want Brad Stevens [Insert big name coach here], walk into his office with a blank check and and contract and say fill it and then we'll talk.  But you have to let the fanbase know what you're doing.  If you're hunting big game, let us know it.  Let us know what is expected and when to expect it.  We will embrace that kind of transparency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tried to be diplomatic about Archie. I was thrilled with his first recruiting class. Mostly Indiana kids, including Romeo. I was thrilled to get 3 Mr Basketball’s in a row- major accomplishment. But, these guys get in the court, and do not play like Indiana kids. They all seem to regress. We are from all over this state and watch these guys in high school and see hoosier fundamentals  and when they get to IU- clank. There HAS to be something they are doing that is affecting shots. Free Throw shooting is, in my opinion, something that is at least partially coachable. And might I remind everyone that aside from this year’s uninspiring Purdue performance was LAST YEAR’s with the return of RMK, they still played terrible. Other trams have no problems shooting the ball at iconic Assembly Hall. Other Indiana kids on other teams always punish IU. I think Arch has crossed into a point of no return, but I think we need to find a balance between being an angry mob and finding a diplomatic solution to sending Archie on his way. We should still support this team, even though we are baffled as to why they can’t shoot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I agree with most of this, up to the bolded part...I think we see effort most of the time...

And here's the shot chart...

Shot.PNG.d68bf8d295f2305a9cefd75b7eb13aa5.PNG

Appreciate the effort. I mean, those are very, very similar shot charts, outside of us taking more midrange jumpers, and from what I saw, we were getting similar looks as Purdue with respect to open looks and whatnot, we just didn't make them as frequently. You can certainly still blame the coaching for that, but I think that's a problem that can still be corrected. I also agree that we've been seeing the same problem from day 1, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I would prefer we go Big game hunting as mentioned earlier.  Go find you a whale.  You want Brad Stevens [Insert big name coach here], walk into his office with a blank check and and contract and say fill it and then we'll talk.  But you have to let the fanbase know what you're doing.  If you're hunting big game, let us know it.  Let us know what is expected and when to expect it.  We will embrace that kind of transparency.

Well sure.  Someone said Stevens isn't coming for 15 million.  This program brings in last I saw 40 mil annually. Do you invest in the wealth of your program to get wealth back?

Also, do you look like UCLA in the process and get embarrassed?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Well sure.  Someone said Stevens isn't coming for 15 million.  This program brings in last I saw 40 mil annually. Do you invest in the wealth of your program to get wealth back?

Also, do you look like UCLA in the process and get embarrassed?

 

UCLA is terrible.  They didn't go big game hunting and they under fund their recruiting and sports programs.  I used Brad Stevens as an example.  And to be honest, no know really knows what anyone would say to 10mil a year for 5 years.  But there are coaches who would come to IU for the right money and the right contract.  Hell even bringing Sampson back would be an upgrade at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

UCLA is terrible.  They didn't go big game hunting and they under fund their recruiting and sports programs.  I used Brad Stevens as an example.  And to be honest, no know really knows what anyone would say to 10mil a year for 5 years.  But there are coaches who would come to IU for the right money and the right contract.  Hell even bringing Sampson back would be an upgrade at this point.

So, you are saying we need to go after Mark Few?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

UCLA is terrible.  They didn't go big game hunting and they under fund their recruiting and sports programs.  I used Brad Stevens as an example.  And to be honest, no know really knows what anyone would say to 10mil a year for 5 years.  But there are coaches who would come to IU for the right money and the right contract.  Hell even bringing Sampson back would be an upgrade at this point.

They made it very public and embarrassing offer to Cal.

I would call him one of the top three biggest names in college basketball.  They just didn't bring the checkbook with them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

I have tried to be diplomatic about Archie. I was thrilled with his first recruiting class. Mostly Indiana kids, including Romeo. I was thrilled to get 3 Mr Basketball’s in a row- major accomplishment. But, these guys get in the court, and do not play like Indiana kids. They all seem to regress. We are from all over this state and watch these guys in high school and see hoosier fundamentals  and when they get to IU- clank. There HAS to be something they are doing that is affecting shots. Free Throw shooting is, in my opinion, something that is at least partially coachable. And might I remind everyone that aside from this year’s uninspiring Purdue performance was LAST YEAR’s with the return of RMK, they still played terrible. Other trams have no problems shooting the ball at iconic Assembly Hall. Other Indiana kids on other teams always punish IU. I think Arch has crossed into a point of no return, but I think we need to find a balance between being an angry mob and finding a diplomatic solution to sending Archie on his way. We should still support this team, even though we are baffled as to why they can’t shoot

Totally agree, expecially the bolded part.  My feeling is that posters don't dislike Archie, many of us actually like him and deeply wished he'd been able to deliver.  I hope people don't go after him personally,  I doubt we here would but there are some morons on social media (and rivals) that may very well do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, rico said:

So, you are saying we need to go after Mark Few?

Go after who you want.  Who you think is going to shut up the fans, the boosters, and the naysayers.  If you want IU basketball back to the national brand it was (Not sure they do or care), then you go big or you come out publicly and say we don't really care if IU is a basketball school anymore.  Get over it.  Then we can just move on.  Just do something.  This floundering in the middle mire is just so......not IU

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...