Will Juwan Morgan be here next season ?

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

For him to get a scholly we would have need an additional player to transfer because of the coaching change, Colin not come back, or one of Crean's '17 recruits to decommit. But yes, it appears he would have really helped this team. 

Question ? As my memory seems to be faulty at the moment.  When did Collin say he was coming back ?   For some reason, I keep thinking that there was a window for McKinley.... yet he chose not to open it, when he opted for Colorado.  I don't know. I could be wrong.  (Not the first time, I might add, LOL )

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, milehiiu said:

Question ? As my memory seems to be faulty at the moment.  When did Collin say he was coming back ? 

Going off memory, but I think it was within days of Archie being formally announced as Coach. 

[milehiiu]

Just now, BGleas said:

Going off memory, but I think it was within days of Archie being formally announced as Coach. 

OK.  Thanks.  Three strikes for me.  I am out.  At least on this subject.  LOL

[FKIM01]

3 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

OK.  Thanks.  Three strikes for me.  I am out.  At least on this subject.  LOL

I remember wanting McKinley but knowing we had no room for him.

As an aside, the fact that Archie identified him and had a commitment from a player that has played far above his ranking gives me comfort that we won't lose much of Crean's ability to identify talent that others miss.

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

OK.  Thanks.  Three strikes for me.  I am out.  At least on this subject.  LOL

Just looked it up. Archie was formally introduced on March 27th and IU sent a release announcing Hartman's return on March 30th. 

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

I remember wanting McKinley but knowing we had no room for him.

As an aside, the fact that Archie identified him and had a commitment from a player that has played far above his ranking gives me comfort that we won't lose much of Crean's ability to identify talent that others miss.

'ppreciate your input.  Thanks !

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Just looked it up. Archie was formally introduced on March 27th and IU sent a release announcing Hartman's return on March 30th. 

Cool.  Another reason what makes me so proud of this IU site.  People willing to seek and share info such as you have done.  Thanks.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I hate to differ.  However, McKinley himself, said he would have loved to have been a Hoosier.... but did not want to take a chance of missing out of the Colorado scholarship, while two of our players had yet to declare for the NBA.  But you are right about what Archie said.

I am pretty sure when the 3 current freshman decided to stay we had no scholarships available.

[StLHoosier]

We would’ve had room had RoJo stayed in, no?  Not that he was ever ready for the NBA (even now), but I believe that would have opened room for Wright.  Maybe this is what Mile was referring to?

[Guest]

Does this injury sway Juwan either way?

May be a step back for him, impeding his progress and causing him to stay another year.

Or, he could view this as a means to justify that if he's going to put his body at risk, he might as well get paid for it.

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Does this injury sway Juwan either way?

May be a step back for him, impeding his progress and causing him to stay another year.

Or, he could view this as a means to justify that if he's going to put his body at risk, he might as well get paid for it.

My answer years ago would have been yes. It does. But after watching OG tear his ACL, get drafted in first round....and take the rookie class by storm this year I have no doubt my thoughts of 15 years ago don't apply anymore.

My guess is if his grades are in order and set to graduate (maybe someone knows) in May...he would go either way. Getting paid (even if far less than staying another year) while working on game is appealing to the masses. 

[5fouls]

Back to McKinley.  Another factor in that was JBJ.  When did we know for certain he was not coming back?  I ask because we went into the summer with only 12 schollies, which allowed Race Thompson to come on early.  Depending on when we knew for certain JBJ was not coming back, there may have just been a scholly for Mckinley.

[FWIUFan]

Morgan I tend to think will be back for reasons already mentioned before.  I think he will be the stud leader we have missed this year.  I'm beginning to think Green and possibly Davis could follow Cujo.  Green  has great athletic ability but poor BB IQ and not sure fits in more controlled offense that CAM wants.  Doesn't seem to be progressing as he should.  Davis also seems not to fit.  Not as athletic as CAM needs for both O and D.  Also did not progress as well as we thought.  I think Durham and Smith will continue to improve and be much bigger contributors next year.

Not wishing for either.  Just some of my ramblings.

[Hoosier82]

If Morgan played on any other team in America there would be zero talk of him going pro after this year. He has a 0% chance of being drafted and not much of a chance to make a G League minimum salary roster. I don’t know what it is about IU and the drastically overvaluing of it’s players pro potential lately but this is insane. He’s a pretty solid college player who’s game doesn’t translate to the pro level and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

[FW_Hoosier]

32 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

If Morgan played on any other team in America there would be zero talk of him going pro after this year. He has a 0% chance of being drafted and not much of a chance to make a G League minimum salary roster. I don’t know what it is about IU and the drastically overvaluing of it’s players pro potential lately but this is insane. He’s a pretty solid college player who’s game doesn’t translate to the pro level and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

I think part of this is the way Crean recruited and the type of players he recruited.  It seemed like Crean sold the program to recruits primarily as a stepping stone to the pros, regardless of whether or not those players were really even close to pro prospects (my friends and I still laugh about how Crean said that Hulls was an NBA guard after a game during his senior year).  This led to a mentality in the program where players wanted to leave for the pros as soon as they possibly could.  

Juwan and Rob came up in that culture, and have seen a bunch of their teammates leave early.  I think that’s why you saw Rob wanting to leave last year and why Juwan will consider leaving this year, despite the fact that neither had/have a chance to be drafted.  The new process for declaring for the draft has also played a part in that, but I do think the culture Crean established has been a big factor as well.  I hope Archie establishes a more stable culture where players who aren’t surefire NBA prospects aren’t always looking to leave at the first possible opportunity.

[Indy1987]

20 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

If Morgan played on any other team in America there would be zero talk of him going pro after this year. He has a 0% chance of being drafted and not much of a chance to make a G League minimum salary roster. I don’t know what it is about IU and the drastically overvaluing of it’s players pro potential lately but this is insane. He’s a pretty solid college player who’s game doesn’t translate to the pro level and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

I couldn't agree more.  I like Juwan but he would be foolish to leave early.  He's not big enough to play inside in the NBA.  His outside shooting needs lots of work.  And he's been injury prone since day one at IU.  I just don't see him getting picked up.  Especially with this loaded draft.  Juwan could have a huge senior year and raise his stock considerably.  And fyi... right now I don't see him listed on even the 2019 draft mocks.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[NCHoosier32]

the way things are these days, everyone goes early.  a few years ago i would have agreed, but he does have size, athleticism, and has become a diverse scorer.  i don't know how this injury will impact his thinking?  he's got to be thinking about whether his stock will likely rise or fall.  i think we could see a very solid team with he and Davis back, progress from the young guys, and another year of getting Miller's system.

[Hoosier82]

1 hour ago, Indy1987 said:

I couldn't agree more.  I like Juwan but he would be foolish to leave early.  He's not big enough to play inside in the NBA.  His outside shooting needs lots of work.  And he's been injury prone since day one at IU.  I just don't see him getting picked up.  Especially with this loaded draft.  Juwan could have a huge senior year and raise his stock considerably.  And fyi... right now I don't see him listed on even the 2019 draft mocks.

Go Hoosiers!!!

He’s not on mock drafts because he doesn’t have NBA talent and ability. FW Hoosier most likely hit it on the head that this is a mentality problem created by Crean over promising NBA dreams to recruits. Many on this board seem to also feed into that mentality for some reason. How many people on here discussed all off season whether Davis would come back for his Junior year and before that if he was a one and done?

Currently there’s not a single guy on this team with NBA talent and the only kid who has a fighters chance at developing into one is Justin Smith. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this...it isn’t a knock on our guys. It’s just reality. 

[FW_Hoosier]

19 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

He’s not on mock drafts because he doesn’t have NBA talent and ability. FW Hoosier most likely hit it on the head that this is a mentality problem created by Crean over promising NBA dreams to recruits. Many on this board seem to also feed into that mentality for some reason. How many people on here discussed all off season whether Davis would come back for his Junior year and before that if he was a one and done?

Currently there’s not a single guy on this team with NBA talent and the only kid who has a fighters chance at developing into one is Justin Smith. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this...it isn’t a knock on our guys. It’s just reality. 

To be clear, I wasn’t saying that Juwan will never be an NBA player.  I think he might have a shot if he can develop a decent jumpshot.  But it’s just a fact that he’s not going to be drafted this season if he leaves, and yet I wouldn’t be surprised if he did anyway.  And I think that mentality, where players want to leave for the pros as soon as they can regardless of whether they’ll be drafted or not, was created by the culture Crean established and the way he recruited.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I think part of this is the way Crean recruited and the type of players he recruited.  It seemed like Crean sold the program to recruits primarily as a stepping stone to the pros, regardless of whether or not those players were really even close to pro prospects (my friends and I still laugh about how Crean said that Hulls was an NBA guard after a game during his senior year).  This led to a mentality in the program where players wanted to leave for the pros as soon as they possibly could.  

Juwan and Rob came up in that culture, and have seen a bunch of their teammates leave early.  I think that’s why you saw Rob wanting to leave last year and why Juwan will consider leaving this year, despite the fact that neither had/have a chance to be drafted.  The new process for declaring for the draft has also played a part in that, but I do think the culture Crean established has been a big factor as well.  I hope Archie establishes a more stable culture where players who aren’t surefire NBA prospects aren’t always looking to leave at the first possible opportunity.

In fairness, Crean identified and developed players for the pros with the best of them. Vic, Cody, Troy, OG, Yogi, Vonleh, even Bryant and JBJ. Victor obviously went #2 overall, will be an all star, and is pushing to be considered among the top NBA guards. Troy and Yogi, no one gave them a chance, but Crean clearly had a lot to do with their development into legitimate NBA players. OG had the NBA ready body, but was on no one's prospective board coming in, now he's playing as one of the top rookies. I think I understand where you're coming from regarding Crean "selling" the program as an NBA launch point -- but so do Duke, KU, UK, UNC etc. etc. All top programs promote themselves as developing players for the next level, and programs like Duke et al completely overlooked guys like Vic and OG.

[FW_Hoosier]

50 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In fairness, Crean identified and developed players for the pros with the best of them. Vic, Cody, Troy, OG, Yogi, Vonleh, even Bryant and JBJ. Victor obviously went #2 overall, will be an all star, and is pushing to be considered among the top NBA guards. Troy and Yogi, no one gave them a chance, but Crean clearly had a lot to do with their development into legitimate NBA players. OG had the NBA ready body, but was no one's prospective board coming in, now he's playing as one of the top rookies. I think I understand where you're coming from regarding Crean "selling" the program as an NBA launch point -- but so do Duke, KU, UK, UNC etc. etc. All top programs promote themselves as developing players for the next level, and programs like Duke et al completely overlooked guys like Vic and OG.

Definitely wasn’t making a comment about the guys that Crean helped developed into pros.  And selling the program as a launching point into the pros is a huge part of recruiting — Archie is going to need to do that to get any of the highly ranked recruits we all want to see at IU.  I think the problem was that Crean was selling almost every recruit on getting them to the pros in three years or less, even when a lot of them never had a shot of getting drafted early.  The difference between Crean doing that and Cal, K, and Self doing it is that those guys are landing a bunch of players that are surefire prospects to leave early and get drafted, and Crean largely wasn’t.  But because the idea of getting to the pros as fast as possible was such a big part of the culture Crean created, you had players like Yogi, Troy, JBJ, Bryant, Rob, and now maybe Juwan leaving early, or at least seriously considering it, even with the knowledge that they weren’t going to get drafted.  

I’m not bashing those guys or even saying they were wrong to leave early or declare and withdraw from the draft, but I think Archie can create a culture where our marginal pro prospects (guys like JBJ, Bryant, and Juwan) want to stick around at IU rather than fight the uphill battle of trying to get to the NBA after going undrafted.  As a comparison (and I might be wrong about this), in recent years it’s seemed like other Big Ten schools haven’t had nearly as many players with eligibility left who were testing the draft and/or leaving early even though they weren’t projected to be drafted.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, Hoosier82 said:

He’s not on mock drafts because he doesn’t have NBA talent and ability. FW Hoosier most likely hit it on the head that this is a mentality problem created by Crean over promising NBA dreams to recruits. Many on this board seem to also feed into that mentality for some reason. How many people on here discussed all off season whether Davis would come back for his Junior year and before that if he was a one and done?

Currently there’s not a single guy on this team with NBA talent and the only kid who has a fighters chance at developing into one is Justin Smith. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this...it isn’t a knock on our guys. It’s just reality. 

I wouldn't go by some of these mock drafts because some had Moore in the 2019 draft.

[TheWatShot]

7 hours ago, Hoosier82 said:

He’s not on mock drafts because he doesn’t have NBA talent and ability. FW Hoosier most likely hit it on the head that this is a mentality problem created by Crean over promising NBA dreams to recruits. Many on this board seem to also feed into that mentality for some reason. How many people on here discussed all off season whether Davis would come back for his Junior year and before that if he was a one and done?

Currently there’s not a single guy on this team with NBA talent and the only kid who has a fighters chance at developing into one is Justin Smith. And again, there’s nothing wrong with this...it isn’t a knock on our guys. It’s just reality. 

I wish I could like this more than once.

 

You should have seen our boards circa 2011. We had fans arguing that Hanner Perea and Jeremy Hollowell were one and dones and that Jurkin would probably leave after his sophomore year.

[Hoosierhoopster]

10 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

I wish I could like this more than once.

 

You should have seen our boards circa 2011. We had fans arguing that Hanner Perea and Jeremy Hollowell were one and dones and that Jurkin would probably leave after his sophomore year.

On the flip side we had fans laughing at the idea that Victor would be drafted let alone a first-rounder, and that Cody lacked the athleticism to get drafted or make it in the NBA. Predicting how a player develops and whether he'll get drafted and make it in the NBA can be difficult. I don't remember anyone saying that about PJ, but Hanner had an NBA body and athleticism, he just didn't develop his basketball skills/knowledge (and his off-court dumb mistakes made it worse).

[NCHoosier32]

it's just so hard to say these days.  so many guys go that shouldn't go.  bad advice.  other circumstances.  then it's also hard to say how guys progress.  especially with a guy that has pretty good size and athleticism and is progressing very well offensively.  i just really hope he stays.  i think Morgan, Davis, Durham, Smith, Green, and McRoberts with another year under their belt under Miller has a lot of promise.  add in Phinessee and Hunter and i really like it!