CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 The wild card here, which we can't really quantify, is how much the remaining Crean guys like playing for Archie. Yeah, Juwan is flourishing under Archie, but is he enjoying himself? He may decide that playing in the G League for $75K or overseas is more appealing than coming back to play for Archie. Same goes for Devonte and De'Ron, and to a certain extent, the three freshmen. From everything that has come out, Crean had absolutely no schedule for his team, coaches included. Going to a more structured system may be undesirable for some of these guys that came to play for Crean. We won't know the answer to that until this summer, but it could be a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 For those who are saying JM isn't ready for the NBA or won't play in the nba, don't quit your day jobs, you won't be hired any time soon as a scout. If Juwan and Hartman changed roles Juwan would make more 3's, he is the better shooter. Thats just not his role on this team. He is first team all Big Ten. Or at least he was before getting hurt, we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, Indykev said: For those who are saying JM isn't ready for the NBA or won't play in the nba, don't quit your day jobs, you won't be hired any time soon as a scout. If Juwan and Hartman changed roles Juwan would make more 3's, he is the better shooter. Thats just not his role on this team. He is first team all Big Ten. Or at least he was before getting hurt, we will see. So you think Juwan is going to get drafted if he leaves after this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: So you think Juwan is going to get drafted if he leaves after this season? I wouldn't say that, but I would not be one to say he has no shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 ^^ I don't think Juwan is ready, but he's not far from ready. He is playing at an elite level on both sides of the ball. He fits the current NBA 'big' model, he's a mobile two-way playing forward who can hit from outside (but I do think he needs to show he can shoot well consistently) and can defend the 3-4, and he's pretty strong. He is not a high-level draft prospect now, one reason I think he'd be better served by playing another year before trying to go pro, but I wouldn't discount his ability to get drafted down the road. On the down side, he's had some nagging injuries, the shoulder held him back, now he has some new foot/ankle injury, hopefully not serious, but we won't know until sometime this week. He also hasn't shown he can shoot consistently well from deep (he can, seriously, he has a pretty good outside shot -- but he needs to impress on scouts that he can do so regularly). He's not very athletic (but that was the knock on Cody), he's not really an above-the-rim player. But he is a very, very good basketball player and he has the ability to make it at the next level, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: ^^ I don't think Juwan is ready, but he's not far from ready. He is playing at an elite level on both sides of the ball. He fits the current NBA 'big' model, he's a mobile two-way playing forward who can hit from outside (but I do think he needs to show he can shoot well consistently) and can defend the 3-4, and he's pretty strong. He is not a high-level draft prospect now, one reason I think he'd be better served by playing another year before trying to go pro, but I wouldn't discount his ability to get drafted down the road. On the down side, he's had some nagging injuries, the shoulder held him back, now he has some new foot/ankle injury, hopefully not serious, but we won't know until sometime this week. He also hasn't shown he can shoot consistently well from deep (he can, seriously, he has a pretty good outside shot -- but he needs to impress on scouts that he can do so regularly). He's not very athletic (but that was the knock on Cody), he's not really an above-the-rim player. But he is a very, very good basketball player and he has the ability to make it at the next level, imo. I agree with everything here. My only disagrement is with the 'he has no shot' statement. Not that you have stated it, but I recall seeing it in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier82 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Indykev said: For those who are saying JM isn't ready for the NBA or won't play in the nba, don't quit your day jobs, you won't be hired any time soon as a scout. If Juwan and Hartman changed roles Juwan would make more 3's, he is the better shooter. Thats just not his role on this team. He is first team all Big Ten. Or at least he was before getting hurt, we will see. This is a pretty condescending comment considering you provide zero competent rationale behind it. 1st team All BigTen? Not happening. Injury issues going forward or not. Maybe 2nd team and even that is far from a lock. Bridges, C Edwards, V Edwards, Bates Diop, Happ, Murphy, Mason, Carr and you could probably argue for guys like Cowan and Stevens are all ahead of Morgan in a All conference team pecking order. He’s shooting 26% from behind the arc this year which makes him 2nd worst on the team infront of Durham. That has nothing to do with his role, he just misses a lot of open shots. Hopefully with some work he can grow into a capable threat from 20 feet but he doesn’t have a 24ft jumper in his arsenal and we have no reason to ever think he’ll develop one much less declare him NBA ready Again, he’s a very good player for IU and Im glad he’s here but to argue he’s an NBA prospect and 1st Team All BigTen is simply being a homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I realize I am debating in the court of opinion, and frankly, I have never done that much of it. At the end of our posts, we will probably continue to disagree, and that is fine. As far as Juwan being first team all B1G, its subjective. Now with the injury, even harder to say. JM does have much going for him, he won NPOTW once. Not sure how many others in the conference have that distinction. He didn't exactly disappear since then either. Yeah, he struggled on the road against a solid MSU team before succumbing to injury. Its arguable that he could have had an impact as RoJo was knocking down outside shots. We will never know. He is/ was close to really breaking things open imo. We know what a solid stretch of games can do for one's draft stock. All of that said, I really do hope he comes back to solidify himself as a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Hoosier82 said: He’s shooting 26% from behind the arc this year which makes him 2nd worst on the team infront of Durham. That has nothing to do with his role, he just misses a lot of open shots. Hopefully with some work he can grow into a capable threat from 20 feet but he doesn’t have a 24ft jumper in his arsenal and we have no reason to ever think he’ll develop one much less declare him NBA ready Again, he’s a very good player for IU and Im glad he’s here but to argue he’s an NBA prospect and 1st Team All BigTen is simply being a homer. No it's not, and aren't you being condescending here? Taking it down a notch, Morgan has shown an outside shot at times, but not with consistency. He has shot well in certain games, and with pretty good form. You're calling out his 26% shooting from 3 -- but that is on a whopping total 27 shots. It just doesn't mean much (and if he shot 40% in those 27 shots it wouldn't mean much either). You can look at his FTs -- last season he shot 74% on 88 FTs -- that is a better measure of his form. This season, though, he's only shooting 67% on 94 FTs, which cuts the other way. But we're only about 1/2 way through the season, and again, look at a guy like Vic, who shot in the 20's from the arc as a soph, and in the 40's as a junior -- did we have no reason to ever think Vic would develop an outside shot? Absolutes really don't work here, you can watch his form, watch games where he knocks down threes and see how he shot the ball in getting them, watch his form at the line, and watch how he gets into his shot, his legs/and movement. He 's not a bad shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Guys.. the shooting is irrelevant. They can literally develop a shot for you in the pros. Shouldn't say irrelevant, but it's not all that big of a factor. They see the body of a stretch 4 with solid handles, good decision making, relentless on the glass, quick for his size, and a good person. He would only have to be a 30-33% 3pt shooter to be effective at all in the NBA. He can do that easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUaic Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 23 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said: The wild card here, which we can't really quantify, is how much the remaining Crean guys like playing for Archie. Yeah, Juwan is flourishing under Archie, but is he enjoying himself? He may decide that playing in the G League for $75K or overseas is more appealing than coming back to play for Archie. Same goes for Devonte and De'Ron, and to a certain extent, the three freshmen. From everything that has come out, Crean had absolutely no schedule for his team, coaches included. Going to a more structured system may be undesirable for some of these guys that came to play for Crean. We won't know the answer to that until this summer, but it could be a factor. What if he finishes his degree and is eligible to be a Grad Transfer? What if they change the transfer rule to not make him sit out a year even without graduating? Going pro may not be his only option this summer. I still say he tries getting paid playing ball next year - NBA, G League, Overseas, Kentucky, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, btownqb said: Guys.. the shooting is irrelevant. They can literally develop a shot for you in the pros. Shouldn't say irrelevant, but it's not all that big of a factor. They see the body of a stretch 4 with solid handles, good decision making, relentless on the glass, quick for his size, and a good person. He would only have to be a 30-33% 3pt shooter to be effective at all in the NBA. He can do that easily. Or they can ruin him like Markelle Fultz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, btownqb said: Guys.. the shooting is irrelevant. They can literally develop a shot for you in the pros. Shouldn't say irrelevant, but it's not all that big of a factor. They see the body of a stretch 4 with solid handles, good decision making, relentless on the glass, quick for his size, and a good person. He would only have to be a 30-33% 3pt shooter to be effective at all in the NBA. He can do that easily. Yeah... I’m gonna say being able to shoot the three is a little more important for NBA success than “being a good person.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Yeah... I’m gonna say being able to shoot the three is a little more important for NBA success than “being a good person.” Yeah.. I never said it was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said: Or they can ruin him like Markelle Fultz. Haha wtf is up with that ugly thing. So ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier82 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, btownqb said: Haha wtf is up with that ugly thing. So ugly. Kid got the yips man,....happened to me in high school baseball and I was never able to work out of it so I DH'd the rest of my "career" and even now it's still bad. I can throw a football or a softball just fine but you put a baseball in my hand and there's no telling where it'll go...just 100% mental. Hopefully he can work through his issues and relearn how to shoot. I've never really heard of someone getting the yips from a basketball shot before but right now he's damaged goods. Maybe Barkley can give him some pointers on the mental aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Yeah... I’m gonna say being able to shoot the three is a little more important for NBA success than “being a good person.” Exactly. His lack of a consistent jumper is a knock against him. He’d really have to improve that and try to get quicker/more athletic to be a legit NBA guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 42 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: Exactly. His lack of a consistent jumper is a knock against him. He’d really have to improve that and try to get quicker/more athletic to be a legit NBA guy. You guys don't read so well. Also.. check the facts... tons, tons, tons of guys develop jumpers once they are already in the NBA. The shot won't play much of a factor in this.. and it's not like his shot is broke, just not something he's worked on a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said: Kid got the yips man,....happened to me in high school baseball and I was never able to work out of it so I DH'd the rest of my "career" and even now it's still bad. I can throw a football or a softball just fine but you put a baseball in my hand and there's no telling where it'll go...just 100% mental. Hopefully he can work through his issues and relearn how to shoot. I've never really heard of someone getting the yips from a basketball shot before but right now he's damaged goods. Maybe Barkley can give him some pointers on the mental aspect. Funny story... quit baseball when I was 13. Played QB in HS and then football in college, so I throw the football a ton during that time... I start umpiring when I was like 19-20, so I had to go behind the plate and throw the ball back to the pitcher sometimes on a foul ball... you should have seen me throw the ball that first year or two lolol.. hilariously bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, btownqb said: You guys don't read so well. Also.. check the facts... tons, tons, tons of guys develop jumpers once they are already in the NBA. The shot won't play much of a factor in this.. and it's not like his shot is broke, just not something he's worked on a ton. I’d be interested to hear how’d you compare Morgan to Vince in terms of NBA potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 Vince is a senior...he's gonna go pro in some profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I’d be interested to hear how’d you compare Morgan to Vince in terms of NBA potential? For me, I find them to be two different types of players with different attributes and skill sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 38 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I’d be interested to hear how’d you compare Morgan to Vince in terms of NBA potential? Potential: Edwards could end up being a 3pt specialist type player. Excellent shot already. Ball handling would need to improve, he does offer some versatility defensively. Morgan: could be a Thad Young type player. Plays bigger than their size.. Morgan would need to develop a legit 3 (30-35%) for that comparison to work. Neither will be drafted this year imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't think he would be drafted this year. There is alot of talented guys ahead of him this year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't get invited from the summer league like Troy and Yogi. And it doesn't mean isn't a great college player, but there have been alot of great college players who never made it to the NBA. Just my opinion and i just like everyone else, i have watched him get better and better over the last 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 For whatever reason, the Painter track record of success in the NBA is just dismal. In that aspect, Crean has ran circles around him and I expect Archie will too. Maybe Painter's team strategy and/or player development just doesn't translate well to the NBA. I expected Swanigan to do much more especially after having a good summer, but his stats really tailed off once he faced NBA regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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