It’s time... Fire Archie Miller

[Brass Cannon]

21 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Rabby had a three hour conversation about it on Hoosier Hysterics back in April of 2019, for one. Go listen to it. 

One source that if called somewhat reliable it would debatable. 
 

Unless specific concrete examples can be cited. Blaming the administration is just an excuse the way people in some cases the same people blamed Justin Smith and Devonte Green.  
 

Successful organizations don’t foster successful divisions under them just for the most visible to be an utter mess.  
 

The administration could be doing more. But they aren’t the reason we are a laughing stock.  They didn’t prevent Crean from making Luke Fischer feel welcome. They didn’t make Remy Abel break team rules repeatedly.  

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Dakich has said many times that we should take Fred's bill of rights and shove it his you know what.  Just one example of the administration handicapping the program. 

But that bill of rights don't guarantee a roster spot. It just guarantees you a scholarship to go to school.  It is mainly for people who leaves early but can come back and finish school later.  I see no way that this is a problem at all.  You can tell a kid that he is not on the roster but you can stay here to go to school on your scholarship.  How many of them do you think will stay to do that.

[BADGERVOL]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I don't really buy that the administration is holding us back.  if they didn't care why Pay Archie a top 15 salary.  Why put so much money into Cook Hall if they don't care.  Why all the upgrades at AH if they don't care or want us to be successful.

Again I’m not saying there’s some nefarious attempt for the admin to make us BAD. I’m saying they’re not “all IN.” They do what they know they need to do, what they MUST to in order to be a nice little sports school. To do enough so that they can claim “we did our part and it was good enough.” They’re not sold out to be better than everyone in every single measurable way. They don’t want THAT much buy in. 
 

Our facilities are horrible. Administration: “ok we will build brand new to bring us to about middle to upper middle of facilities in the Big Ten.” Thats not all in.

Please no one say “oh you’re saying if we had the best faculties in the nation Archie would be winning the Big Ten this year?!!” I’m gonna flip my 💩 😂 

And you’re example of the top 15 salary is possibly making my case for me. Now IF they did offer someone like Stevens 8m a year and he turned them down fine, they’re all in with the willingness to pay. We don’t know that for a fact, maybe they did.

But paying a coach top 15 money doesn’t prove they’re all in. That’s what Archie was worth so that’s fine I’m not saying pay him more than he’s worth. But saying “hey we got a top 15 paid coach so we are all in like Duke, UNC, Kansas...” No you’re not. 
 

DO EVERYTHING.

[Seeking6]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. 

Part of it is, it seems like you and Brass Cannon want to make my position and others on this as some defense of Crean and Miller, that's not what this is. 

But, if you're consistently bad or at minimum inconsistent over a 25 year period, then most likely it goes deeper than just not having the right coach. Its an organizational problem. 

Bob Knight, Tom Crean, Jim Harbaugh and Jeff Rabjohn's have all alluded to the IU administration being poor and making things difficult over the last 25+ years. 

That's the thing I keep harping on. This isn't a one time thing. It's been 25 years...so the numbers (like I said last night) prove there is something bigger going on because if we have all of these positives going for IU...why is it impossible to win?

 I remember a compliance officer almost saying gotcha to Crean in year 2. Like she was happy to find out he did something wrong. That's one of many, many examples. Shoot I had first hand information on how the Wilson deal went down. Now we all are happy because of what Allen has done....but sharing a hallway with people who want to take you down? Not a great environment.

[BADGERVOL]

This is why I’d like a PUBLIC offer to someone like Brad Stevens. Idc if he declines. If he does it’s best to make it public...shows Boston he’s all in there. Shows IU’s base our administration was willing to do anything. It takes some pressure off the incoming coach from comparisons to someone like that or “wishing we would have” because everyone would KNOW our administration was willing to break the bank. So let’s get behind this next coach AGAIN. 

[BADGERVOL]

Just now, Seeking6 said:

That's the thing I keep harping on. This isn't a one time thing. It's been 25 years...so the numbers (like I said last night) prove there is something bigger going on because if we have all of these positives going for IU...why is it impossible to win?

 I remember a compliance officer almost saying gotcha to Crean in year 2. Like she was happy to find out he did something wrong. That's one of many, many examples. Shoot I had first hand information on how the Wilson deal went down. Now we all are happy because of what Allen has done....but sharing a hallway with people who want to take you down? Not a great environment.

THIS ☝️☝️☝️
 

Our administration acts like we are  Northwestern without the prestige of the academics!!

[dbmhoosier]

Part of it is the personality of the coaches that they hire.  I've been told many times by people close to the situation that our administration doesn't want an alpha male or anyone who might be bigger than the program ever again.  But this is a very cutthroat industry.   Most if the highly successful coaches are alphas.  It's no coincidence that they keep hiring guys like Davis, Crean, and Miller.  I promise you guys on this.

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Again I’m not saying there’s some nefarious attempt for the admin to make us BAD. I’m saying they’re not “all IN.” They do what they know they need to do, what they MUST to in order to be a nice little sports school. To do enough so that they can claim “we did our part and it was good enough.” They’re not sold out to be better than everyone in every single measurable way. They don’t want THAT much buy in. 
 

Our facilities are horrible. Administration: “ok we will build brand new to bring us to about middle to upper middle of facilities in the Big Ten.” Thats not all in.

Please no one say “oh you’re saying if we had the best faculties in the nation Archie would be winning the Big Ten this year?!!” I’m gonna flip my 💩 😂 

And you’re example of the top 15 salary is possibly making my case for me. Now IF they did offer someone like Stevens 8m a year and he turned them down fine, they’re all in with the willingness to pay. We don’t know that for a fact, maybe they did.

But paying a coach top 15 money doesn’t prove they’re all in. That’s what Archie was worth so that’s fine I’m not saying pay him more than he’s worth. But saying “hey we got a top 15 paid coach so we are all in like Duke, UNC, Kansas...” No you’re not. 
 

DO EVERYTHING.

I think when wr hired him he was like 10th but now is around 15th.  Also I wouldn't say our facilities are horrible and with media center they are steps ahead of others.  The new locker rooms look pretty good to me.  I get what you are saying but what specifically are they doing to limit this program.

[BADGERVOL]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

Part of it is the personality of the coaches that they hire.  I've been told many times by people close to the situation that our administration doesn't want an alpha male or anyone who might be bigger than the program ever again.  But this is a very cutthroat industry.   Most if the highly successful coaches are alphas.  It's no coincidence that they keep hiring guys like Davis, Crean, and Miller.  I promise you guys on this.

Yes! Another reason they’re NOT “all in.”

They’d really LIKE to win a National title with a nice and neat two story house with a medium sized front yard, 2.7 kids and a dog that doesn’t bark. 

[Brass Cannon]

The administration has made mistakes hiring but other than that they aren’t holding the program back. Nothing the administration is doing explains the fact we can’t hit FTs for example. 
 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

That's the thing I keep harping on. This isn't a one time thing. It's been 25 years...so the numbers (like I said last night) prove there is something bigger going on because if we have all of these positives going for IU...why is it impossible to win?

 I remember a compliance officer almost saying gotcha to Crean in year 2. Like she was happy to find out he did something wrong. That's one of many, many examples. Shoot I had first hand information on how the Wilson deal went down. Now we all are happy because of what Allen has done....but sharing a hallway with people who want to take you down? Not a great environment.

Yes!

That was one of Rabjohn's examples, that compliance plays "gotcha" as opposed to helping them navigate the rules and find ways to use them to our advantage. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

This is why I’d like a PUBLIC offer to someone like Brad Stevens. Idc if he declines. If he does it’s best to make it public...shows Boston he’s all in there. Shows IU’s base our administration was willing to do anything. It takes some pressure off the incoming coach from comparisons to someone like that or “wishing we would have” because everyone would KNOW our administration was willing to break the bank. So let’s get behind this next coach AGAIN. 

The thing you can't make it public until you fire the current coach and Stevens gets let go.  As long as he is under contract you would have to ask permission from the Celtics to talk to him.  In that case you have to that privately so it can't go public.

[Sea Turtle]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

One source that if called somewhat reliable it would debatable. 
 

Unless specific concrete examples can be cited. Blaming the administration is just an excuse the way people in some cases the same people blamed Justin Smith and Devonte Green.  
 

Successful organizations don’t foster successful divisions under them just for the most visible to be an utter mess.  
 

The administration could be doing more. But they aren’t the reason we are a laughing stock.  They didn’t prevent Crean from making Luke Fischer feel welcome. They didn’t make Remy Abel break team rules repeatedly.  

Do you honestly think McRobbie is going to hold a press conference and announce it? You think that would go over well? They were sick of a powerful coach like Knight and once they got rid of him they said never again. 

They don't want a powerful program.

They don't want a powerful coach 

The administration was embarrassed of being known for just basketball 

He wanted a source on the spot. Well I gave him one. Rabby covers this athletic department for a living. Is Mike Pegram not a good enough source either?

He breaks down everything that has happened from Knight to Miller in astonishing detail.

The parallels of this program post Knight and ND football(they ran him off because they were tired of football too)are scary.

Notre Dame finally came to their senses. I'm not sure this fan base and boosters even care enough to demand the same.

 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think when wr hired him he was like 10th but now is around 15th.  Also I wouldn't say our facilities are horrible and with media center they are steps ahead of others.  The new locker rooms look pretty good to me.  I get what you are saying but what specifically are they doing to limit this program.

Scott, several examples have been given. 

Also, from the reports I recall Archie was absolutely shocked at the state of the locker room when he got here and had to beg to get it redone. 

[Seeking6]

3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Part of it is the personality of the coaches that they hire.  I've been told many times by people close to the situation that our administration doesn't want an alpha male or anyone who might be bigger than the program ever again.  But this is a very cutthroat industry.   Most if the highly successful coaches are alphas.  It's no coincidence that they keep hiring guys like Davis, Crean, and Miller.  I promise you guys on this.

I can't any say anymore clearly than this. There are people in Bloomington who think it's more important to be known for what our academics do instead of athletics....and again I'll point out the decades of average minus 4-5 seasons. 

That's why if I had my wish. I throw the Brinks at Mitch. He understands how a school can work in harmony between academics and athletics. 

 

[BADGERVOL]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think when wr hired him he was like 10th but now is around 15th.  Also I wouldn't say our facilities are horrible and with media center they are steps ahead of others.  The new locker rooms look pretty good to me.  I get what you are saying but what specifically are they doing to limit this program.

Where did I say they’re horrible?? My gosh! I said they ducked and we built brand new that easily put us middle of the pack. I guess I could word this 15 different ways and it’s not going to matter. So that’s fine. Agree to disagree. I’ve made my case.

every coach fired should have been and Archie should be too. No excuses.

Our administration would like to win a Natty but they don’t want to curb stomp the competition. They want to slap box.

[BADGERVOL]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The thing you can't make it public until you fire the current coach and Stevens gets let go.  As long as he is under contract you would have to ask permission from the Celtics to talk to him.  In that case you have to that privately so it can't go public.

I know

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Scott, several examples have been given. 

Also, from the reports I recall Archie was absolutely shocked at the state of the locker room when he got here and had to beg to get it redone. 

And they upgraded them for him so that was good.  I can see maybe the compliance department being a little strict but after the Sampson debacle it is better to be conservative with that.

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Sea Turtle said:

Do you honestly think McRobbie is going to hold a press conference and announce it? You think that would go over well? They were sick of a powerful coach like Knight and once they got rid of him they said never again. 

They don't want a powerful program.

They don't want a powerful coach 

The administration was embarrassed of being known for just basketball 

He wanted a source on the spot. Well I gave him one. Rabby covers this athletic department for a living. Is Mike Pegram not a good enough source either?

He breaks down everything that has happened from Knight to Miller in astonishing detail.

The parallels of this program post Knight and ND football(they ran him off because they were tired of football too)are scary.

Notre Dame finally came to their senses. I'm not sure this fan base and boosters even care enough to demand the same.

 

Arguing that it’s unrealistic to expect hard evidence doesn’t make the lack of hard evidence somehow compelling.  
 

Every year we see less funded programs surpass us.  It’s less about the money and more about the people

Other than bad hires this administration is being treated like some faceless boogie man.  College basketball is all about the coach.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I can't any say anymore clearly than this. There are people in Bloomington who think it's more important to be known for what our academics do instead of athletics....and again I'll point out the decades of average minus 4-5 seasons. 

That's why if I had my wish. I throw the Brinks at Mitch. He understands how a school can work in harmony between academics and athletics. 

 

Well isn't that the main priority for an University

[BADGERVOL]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

The administration has made mistakes hiring but other than that they aren’t holding the program back. Nothing the administration is doing explains the fact we can’t hit FTs for example. 
 

You’re right. I went back and read my reasoning. I was trying to make the case that our administration is texting the coach during the game and limiting his plays. So yea...you got it. You’ve read all my responses well.

😳

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

It's time.  Get a commitment from Matta, Drew, Beilein, Oates, Musselman, Stevens or Donovan and pull the plug on Archie.

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Scott, several examples have been given. 

Also, from the reports I recall Archie was absolutely shocked at the state of the locker room when he got here and had to beg to get it redone. 

Shoot I remember speaking with Sampson when he first got here....he said you guys are Indiana University and have some of the worst facilities I've ever seen. 

Crean was more classy so he didn't say much in public but I bet he and Fred said about 10 words to each other in the final 2 years.

Archie knows the deal out there. Now that doesn't dismiss what we see in coaching...that's never my point. My point is there are handcuffs in getting certain kids to campus. Everyone wants 4.0 GPA's? We've got about 6 of them on the team right now. 

[dbmhoosier]

9 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Yes! Another reason they’re NOT “all in.”

They’d really LIKE to win a National title with a nice and neat two story house with a medium sized front yard, 2.7 kids and a dog that doesn’t bark. 

 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, BADGERVOL said:

You’re right. I went back and read my reasoning. I was trying to make the case that our administration is texting the coach during the game and limiting his plays. So yea...you got it. You’ve read all my responses well.

😳

I’ve read them. They are all paranoid conjecture. Without any hard facts. Frankly telling him what plays to run would be a better claim because it’s a hard claim.