htownbound

2 minutes ago, FritzIam4IU said:

Is this really necessary??

Yes, people need to realize that advanced analytics aren’t just hearsay. Follow the analytics, and you will find success. 

On 12/8/2021 at 3:13 PM, BobSaccamanno said:

Nobody cares because your thesis is full of speculation, with some nonsense thrown in.  I don't know why you are stuck on this.  Relax, you might be a good poster with good ideas, and that would be entirely welcome, but on this one, we get your point and people have responded.

Hey Bob…. Now that the program is ruined, you got anything to say?

On 12/7/2021 at 3:54 PM, htownbound said:

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

 

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

 

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-15, including Seth Littrel OR even Kevin Johns. This is just a flat out bad hire if it goes through. 

Just wanted to come back to say I was right. Numbers do matter. Thanks for not getting riled up to do anything about it. 

31 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Nobody cares because your thesis is full of speculation, with some nonsense thrown in.  I don't know why you are stuck on this.  Relax, you might be a good poster with good ideas, and that would be entirely welcome, but on this one, we get your point and people have responded.

Absolutely no speculation. All fact. Facts based on stats that have a direct correlation with success.

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Shooters are born and not taught.  Yes you can take a guy and get him descent but the truly great shooters just have the touch.

That’s such a %#%% myth it’s incredible. Look at Julius Randle on the Knicks. The only player in NBA history to shoot below 30% from the 3 point line his entire career, then turn it around to shoot above 41% as soon as he had Mike Woodson as an assistant for over a year. Coincidence? Absolutely not. Riddle me how Trayce magically starting shooting better this year??? You think some magic thing just happened? He was “reborn”? People on this board are idiots.

Just now, btownqb said:

Then the Alumni association needs to be better. 

I have no clue what fantasy world you live in that Indiana is a true player in the CFB world, but you're grossly mistaken. 

I have no clue what fantasy world you live in that says Indiana can’t be a true player in the CFB world. It’s all about changing mentality and what we’re willing to accept. We have the resources. 

4 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Did they ask you for a check to pay for it.

Indiana University had the 2nd largest living alumni base and should have no problem getting this money. The idea that LSU can pay $100M for a coach and $1M+ for coordinators, but we can’t cough up $1-$2M for a good coordinator is ridiculous. 

21 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I could write a book on Archie and his misuse of players. It truly takes both to be great IMO. I think with football your position coaches( coordinators) are so vital and they have a lot of say in game planning and in basketball its a little different. I agree if this is a bad hire we are wasting a lot of talent. 

Agreed on the talent piece. It’s also perception. Right now we’re a few levels above what we were when Lynch had the job in the late 2000s. Don’t want to get back to that point. 

13 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Shooting has nothing to do with coaching. Except telling them to get in the gym and get shots up. Archie would loved to have had Parker, Miller, Johnson and Bates. Am I saying Archie is a great coach, no. But those 4 guys would have made him better.

LOL - coaches coach shooting. You have to practice getting the right arc on the ball to produce shot make % angles. You have to be able to do that well from a point of exhaustion. You think that shooting isn’t coached!? Guess again

9 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I don't know much about the new hire but that last paragraph I need to address. I will say Coach Knight is one of the greatest coaches period of all time and he has said many times its not about the x's and O's its the Jonny's and Joe's that make 1 a good coach.  He also said that when his X's were bigger and better than the other team's O's they seemed to win a lot more. Players make a good coach great and a good coach look terrible when they have no players. It truly takes both. For me I will take talent and no coach over great coach and no talent. Only so much juice can you squeeze from a small lemon

Lot of good points there - except did you read my post about IUBB under Archie. A lot of great talent with no good coach. The result was failure. Utter failure. Now with Woodson… crazy how the team has already turned around. 

10 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

So what are you going to do about it?

I’ve called the athletic office. I’ve emailed the athletic office. I am trying to get others to do the same. The prior 2 years were the best two for IU football in the past 25 years, and it took us 10 years from Wilson -> Allen to get there. I’m not waiting another 10 years for this program to be fixed because we gave an unproven guy “a chance” and had to clean house.

3 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

So Saban’s “coaching” is the reason why Alabama is good every year? Coaching is important but getting the talent is way more important, hence why when a team like IU loses guys to injuries they’re dead in the water. 

Let me give you a great example where everyone tried to blame the players for poor play: IUBB. 

People were starting to say that we didn’t have any talent, or that we didn’t have any shooters on the team. That we were unathletic. That we needed to keep recruiting better kids. But the thing is: you don’t have three 5-star, five 4-star, and five 3-star kids all under Archie’s tenure, (some of whom were deemed to be sharp shooters in high school), suddenly turn to garbage. That was all coaching. Now with the right coaching hire in Woodson - all shooting numbers are starting to climb again. Including free throw % (FINALLY) and 3 point%. 
 

The crazy part about the Woodson hire? That there were ACTUALLY ADVANCED STATISTICS to prove that he was going to be a good head coach, including the percentage improvements that almost all NBA All stars he coached made while he was an assistant on that all star’s team. 

Now lets translate to IU Football. We currently have the most talent on the team that we have ever had, and the greatest incoming class that we have ever had. We saw what an incompetent coach can do with a talented IU team this year, and now everyone wants to vote in the same type of person to manage that talent?? Absolutely mind numbing to me.

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Just like everyone else commenting, I have no clue whether this hire will end up being a good one or not. 

With that said, the idea that this guy is a failure or that failure follows him is absolutely absurd. Bell is in what, his mid-to-late 30's and has been the OC at Arkansas St, Maryland and Florida St., as well as being a D1 head coach?

We should all hope to fail that well!

I don’t know how many times I have to say this. We have 8 straight years of data with him at HC or OC dating back to Arkansas st and his numbers have never been good. He cannot run an efficient offense, and he never has. Let me say the word again: Efficiency. Efficiency. Efficiency. 
 

If your offense is not efficient, you will not win games. Period. 
 

I’ve posted his efficiency numbers several times, but no one wants to use that as a future indicator of success even though it has DICTATED *most* of his coaching moves. Maryland - bad O - fired. FSU / Taggart - bad O - fired. UMASS - bad O - fired. How has failure not followed him? Some guys are the lucky sperm that have moderate success at one coaching job and can ride that to bigger names their entire career - aka Walt Bell. 
 

And for you numbskulls out there : COACHING BEATS TALENT 9 TIMES OUTTA 10. Even using Alabama, despite the terrible comparison point that it is: do you think the top talent isn’t coming to Bama if Saban isn’t a good coach? Even when they didn’t have talent in his early years at Bama, he still out coached everyone in the SEC west to make that team what it is today!! Coaching is what makes the Baylor the cyclical team that it is. Does talent help?! Absolutely! But the talent will go nowhere further if you have a Sheridan there to coach that talent for 4 years. 

12 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I have no idea whether he will succeed because literally no one does.

The reliance on his rankings over the years is understandable in the sense that is pretty much all anyone here knows about him.

But it’s superficial.  You have to dig into what went behind those numbers.  What happened with personnel…did he have a spate of injuries….what did he have to work with?   What was he specifically calling that worked or didn’t work, and how did he adjust?  Could it be that he has learned from the OJT he received at other schools?   He was in his early 30s and he had some pretty big jobs.   

People are acting like it’s a fait accompli that he is going to fail.  That’s fairly ridiculous.  

Allen knows what’s on the line and it’s a heck of a lot more skin in the game than we have.  He knows what’s at stake.

Let’s see how he does…who knows, maybe I will dislike him more than anyone, but at least I am giving him a chance first.   Recruiting will be critical.  

If failure follows Bell wherever he goes, why should we not expect the same? Allen relies on “who do I know?” so much more than “who is best”? As has been the case with more of his hires. Allen may know what’s on the line, but that has never stopped him from staying inside the box. 
 

I will follow up your comment about recruiting with this: It doesn’t matter who you recruit if coaching stinks. Coaching beats talent 9 times out of 10 at the college level, and you can see that in the regression of all of our QBs this year. A lot of good habits / mechanics with DeBoer carried over from 2019 into the 2020 season, but those habits started to disappear towards the Wisconsin game at the end. It was tough to realize at first, but it became clear over the course of this season that there was a downward trend in play. Penix playing bad was one thing, but all QBs playing bad is entirely another. These poor kids couldn’t even make proper reads at the line or work through pass progressions. That’s not on them, especially in McCulley’s case, as he is an incredibly talented QB. That’s all on Sheridan. A good OC can fix them like DeBoer fixed Ramsey. 
 

Unfortunately, the guy to fix them is a man with a terrible track record. 
 

6 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

DeBoer was 17th in the country when OC at Indiana, but as a head coach, his offenses have only been 75th and 69th. Guess he was a “bad hire” by that metric as well. And make no mistake, that’s his offense regardless of who his OC is. Just like IU’s defense is ultimately Allen’s. 

False. As a head coach (2 years) Deboers offenses finished 67th last year in offensive efficiency, and 44th this year.

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣 

I mean I don’t get what’s funny. This is still a terrible hire if it goes through.

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

If you found a stat that we weren't above 100 in, offensively this past season, then that's a bad stat. 

Lol - no it’s not. Efficiency is one of the best ways to judge the effectiveness of a coach. If you don’t believe me, look at Kane Wommack last year - who had a defense ranked 4th in efficiency. 

30 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Anyone else, besides me, wondering why the new OC hasn't been named official yet? It's supposed to be today, if I'm not mistaken.

Hopefully that means there is some good news!

13 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

Much like a lot of things these days, the vocal minority aka loud mouths, are the experts on all things. They could be right, could be a bad hire, but they don't really know any more than you or I. Besides about 3 people, every hire would be bad in their minds. The guy is 37 years old for christ's sake, like let's see what he's got. 

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-15, including Seth Littrel OR even Kevin Johns. This is just a flat out bad hire if it goes through.