Initial79

Scott, I explained this is detail to you. I am not doing it again. The answers you seek were provided. 
 

I am sure you will take this the wrong way. Not my intention. 
 

We have choices in life to be open, learn from others and seek new knowledge or put our head in the sand. The world today is dominated by the latter. People dig deeper and deeper into their hole until they can’t see anyone beside those with the same opinions. 
 

You have built in beliefs about the program. You sought out “facts” that support your view rather than be open and seek new knowledge. You are not the only one doing this. 
 

again, you probably won’t be seeing me too much moving forward anyway. I won’t have nearly the time to be on here as my life gets back to normal. I used the down time to jump into something I care about and discuss.  Probably a mistake. 😂 All good. 

35 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

HE MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME VIEW AS YOU THAT OREGON HAS BETTER THIS OR THAT. Just because you think it’s better and most people probably would too doesn’t mean he sees it that way. Or yeah, maybe he just chose IU for Woody.  Do you know him personally? Did we read somewhere that Woody was the ONLY reason he chose IU? I don’t remember seeing that. But I’m sure you’ll correct me if I’m wrong. Your words would probably go over better with people if you didn’t speak in condescending tones or like you knew the answers to everything. Just saying.

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

There was a great point thrown in there by btownqb and lost. The primary Tenn PG has a recent ACL. There is zero idea at this time how he will perform and if he will be back next season at all. Trying to throw XJ broken foot, waiver etc. as an issue when they are at best equal grey situations.  It wasn’t a factor. 

nobody likes my assessment of why. That is fine. But we keep searching for other reasons because we want to believe IU is IU. It can and will be again, just not the choice for certain guys. We can argue all we want about how it makes no sense, why choose a school like that, etc. 

feel like this is derailing the thread again and but haven’t seen the “got back on topic” yet. 

12 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Or maybe Ware did choose “that” at IU. Maybe HE doesn’t agree with your assessment and feels in his opinion that IU measured up just fine in those areas. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Huh? He chose Woody and NBA development. No question. He decided that all the athlete perks at Oregon are not worth it.

hard to figure out what you are implying. I really thought this last reply was going to clear this up but I guess not 🤦‍♂️

On 4/22/2023 at 12:30 PM, Zuckerkorn said:

Heck yeah!  I'd take second or maybe even third all-time scorer 🥳

Seriously, I'm unsure of how much he's "over" the injury.  Seemed like he came back and played then was held out of game(s).  Full participation this Summer seems essential to his success next season.

It is all part of the process. Willing to expand on all this of those are interested. Just spent past year dealing with this and one of my kids who is committed to play soccer D1.  Lot to it and would be a long post 😂 

11 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Let's point out the fallacy of this entire conversation, and virtually every conversation that's going on throughout this whole website right now by looking a this year's Final Four teams.

Did Florida Atlantic make it to the Final Four because of elite facilities?  No.  Dusty May went so far to say he were among the worst he had ever seen.

For that matter, does anyone believe that San Diego State's and UConn's facilities are top of the line.  Do those two schools funnel money from their 'elite' football programs to build up basketball facilities?

Now let's shift over to NIL.  Did UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic win he NIL game?  I think we can safely say that wasn't the case.  

So, essentially, one team in this year's Final Four, that being Miami, played the type of off-court games we are arguing about being necessary to compete, and they didn't even win the damn thing.

How did the other team's make it then? 

• They developed a specific culture 
• They recruited players that fit well into that culture
• They recruited those players regardless of high school or transfer portal rankings
• They coached those players to play as a unit
• Those players and teams peaked at the right time

I'm serious when I say this.  Some of you guys would be happier winning the 'off-season' than winning the actual season.  March isn't about NIL and a roster full of big-time recruits. It's about having he right group of players, with the right group of coaches, at the right time.

In my opinion, NIL will always be more successful in helping keep a player already established in a program (e.g. TJD) from going pro than it will be landing the 'missing piece' from the portal.  UConn added 3 portal pieces last year (Newton, Calcaterra, and Diarra).  They got a TOTAL of 18 points and 7.5 rebounds from that trio.  Not bad, and they certainly helped he Huskies along the way, but you divide those by 3 and those of you living and dying about what we get in the portal would likely have been disappointed.  

Woodson is building a culture at IU.  Give him some time to do it.  We've made progress both years he has been here.  And no, next year's team may not have TJD, but they just may be a group that puts it all together like UConn, San Diego State, and Florida Atlantic did this season.  I know I, for one, would rather build under the radar like those 3 teams did. rather than use the flash and cash that Miami did to get there.   

 

 

This post tells me that the majority are fully misunderstanding my perspective and reason for the things I have pointed out.

I have said repeatedly I trust the staff and feel patience is needed. There is not a single thing you said that I disagree with.

my entire point on NIL, Facilities etc. was people on here, other boards, Twitter etc keep saying “how did we lose 2 guys to Tenn.? How is Arkansas, Alabama etc seem to be the top destination for portal guys? These are all “football” schools.  Then this questioning is usually followed by 50% of people blaming the staff, Woody’s knee etc. 

I am trying to help provide insight into why this is occurring in general. That some players want that stuff and IU can’t compete there. But… and I have said this many times, Ware is a prime example of a recruit that didn’t want that. Been there, done that. There are plenty more like him. But yes, there are plenty players now days that choose schools for reasons that would make your head flip.

Hopefully this helps educate a few while also helping people see what you pointed out in greater detail, IT IS OK, we don’t need to be the right choice for every player we offer we just need talent that wants to be here. 

8 hours ago, Indykev said:

I talked to 2 players last night, who in the past gave me great INSIDE info. They have no clue who we are going after.

This has been theorized among a few “insiders” that Woody was not happy with how the Ware visit went and all the drama that night on Twitter. Someone said his family didn’t like that much. This then had X go to Twitter and tell people to back off. 

Could be that it is quiet because staff has been told to stop talking. Rabby even made a comment on a a podcast about Ledlum that made it seem like he was struggling to get info. 

Lastly, you sure don’t talk about players you are trying to convince into the portal.

just some thoughts. 

2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

There is clearly more demand than supply for a guard who averaged 9&5 last year. Sellers market. 

Which is why I think more will get “talked into” the portal. You have to know that as a player. If you don’t 100% love where you are, easy to make a move and make bank.

11 hours ago, DC2345 said:

I just think he’s pointless to talk about until something actually happens. Until then it’s just message board nonsense and it’s not just from you. There’s plenty of people all over IU message boards that keep bringing him up.

That is fair while I also just think 99% of what is talked about on all these boards and threads is pointless. We might have a higher chance with him than we do many of the portal players, other 2024/2025s etc

Purely honest questions that nobody can seem to answer. Seems to be a holding pattern for sure but lots unanswered. 

Uh…. Yep. Didn’t say he wasn’t. Sometimes I feel like I am being punked with the responses 😂

I know he is, I also know something makes zero sense. Also “committed” is a verbal and not signed. That means less and less to coaches now days (don’t like it but reality). 

my only reason for responding again is, can we not discuss it? Why do people keep coming here and saying this? I know this.  

2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I would posit that a good majority of this board has already lost their minds 😛

See, common ground for all. We are all pissed at each other, portal, damn SEC, knee surgeries, you name it. 🤣

13 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Arkansas pays better and is superior in so many ways, staff, facilities, all the extra experience stuff.  

Arkansas stud player in the draft but my pull out and transfer to IU.  

Me trying to make sense of it all.  

I gave a couple of theories.  I didn’t create the rumors.

There are always exceptions to the rule. Like when you find that 3 with a 10. They have their reasons but might not make sense. Especially if they are not rich 😂 

I can pretty confidently say we have been poking there and maybe that is all it is. One sided from us. But this does seem to be where time is going right now. Finding guys that we can pull to us. 

2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Unfortunately, waiting for a staff to have their players in place isn’t really a thing anymore. New coaches are coming in and turning over their entire rosters. Unseemly? Maybe, but it’s how it works now. 

Honest question, can you name one where that has worked and if it did, did it work to better and faster results than Woody has had in 2 years? 

I was thinking about this the other night and trying to think of any program that has turned faster. It seems like it really just depends on this year. They pull another solid guy or 2 and finish well Year 3 and he is right in line with the best, right? 

13 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Arkansas and UT NIL collective’s for basketball don’t compare to Indiana’s. There’s no point in comparing them because it isn’t close. There isn’t a single person at either school who came close to making TJD money last year. 

The collectives are not separate. The are all one. The more people love football and those schools, the more that gets pushed in. This leaves lots of extra money for BB. The Tenn. collective has a yearly target of $25 million. 

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

So IU not having a granola station is the reason they aren’t getting big time recruits? I’m recently retired, I’ll go stand in the entrance of the locker room and personally hand out Raisin Bran if it meant landing some big time recruits but I’d be wasting my time as we both know that isn’t really how it works.

Surely it has nothing to do with a revolving door of incompetent coaches who can’t sustain any type of program success? I’m sure that doesn’t play a factor in any of this. Who am I kidding?

I will avoid the easiest conclusion to your disconnection 

I addressed your granola station comment plenty. Way, way more than that. Not even close. Also not close to top on NIL. These SEC schools just keep killing everyone and they use that football money for BB. This is not 1987. Big money moving around, agents, companies, collectives etc. 

Like I said, you convinced me. You know more. 

1 minute ago, Between2Halls said:

 

Freaking SEC and big ACC. 

59 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Post all the conspiracy crap all you want, idc. Its still pointless until he de-commits.

Will do

FYI - conspiracy is not a conspiracy just because you don’t want to acknowledge facts. I simply asked for anyone to explain why any recruit would ever do all he has done. The answer is you don’t know either. 
 

I can tell you this, if JHS had done what Catchings has done this entire board would lose their mind until it was actually resolved. 

1 hour ago, IndyResident16 said:

We’re not discussing the football program. We’re talking basketball. Kids aren’t committing to UT and Arkansas over IU because Arkansas has a juice bar in their locker room and IU doesn’t. They’re committing to those schools because they have entirely better coaching staffs in place who can sell their program a lot better than our current staff. This isn’t hard to figure out.

I will assure you if IU hired Eric Musselman he wouldn’t have an issue getting his pick of the litter in the portal, just like Arkansas will go back to being decidedly mediocre when/if he leaves just like they were in the 25 year span between him and Nolan Richardson and no amount of money, slushee machines, or Xbox game rooms are going to change that. 
 

Arkansas is not a basketball destination. They currently have a very desirable college basketball coach who can sell his vision on par with the best in the country. This is what it comes down to, plain and simple.

 

you are so disconnected but cool. Keep believing it is 1987.  

you win, I believe you.  

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

It is like you come off as arrogant lnow it all and you won't listen to other people. I have been on message boards for years and have seen to many posters come on here out of know where. These posters want to act like they are the smartest and their opinion is the only one that is right.

The irony 

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think for a lot of us that have been fans since the 70's and fell in love with college basketball, that the current state of the game is sad.  To me this kind of thing like the NIL, the portal and the arm races are not what college is meant to be.

And that is fine and valid for you. I have never once tired to argue that or sway your opinion.

I am lost on why you are so angry at me when I do know some of these things. I have tried wording things better to you, etc. you won’t stop. I get DMs from people telling me they agree but not willing to argue with people on this board and waste their time. Ready to give it up myself. Not worth it. 
 

I again say, not trying to be a pain when I say this but is the a case of “you can’t handle the truth” 😂

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

You don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about. Give it up man.

 

This entire board told you you didn’t have a clue this week and you still wouldn’t listen. 

keep blaming the staff while every SEC school builds their mansions and massive NIL collectives. 

Done responding to you 

19 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I guarantee plenty of recruits have done stuff like that before. If I had to guess, he’s probably messing with classmates of his who have been giving him a hard time and want him to go to IU. I don’t think it’s a big deal he’s a kid having fun. 

These coaches all follow their recruits like hawks on social media. When my kid makes a post about anything they immediately like, comment etc. right away. Call them if they don’t like something.  If he did that as a joke, he would have a call from Painter right away who would say, don’t play like that. Not a good look for us. 
 

you and every Purdue guy knows this but easy to try and act like it isn’t a thing. 

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Lol. Xbox and Gatorade slushee machines weren’t around in 2015?

No what I said, I am saying kids today are not the same as kids from 8/10 years ago. 

39 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Right now, the better use of that money would be to dump it all into the Hoosiers For Good and just give it to the players if you are going to play the game at all.  I bet the ROE on that would be far higher than any facility.

Hey, you have amenities in a facility you will barely use that aren't as good as those guys.  Will an extra $50 to $100k make you feel better?

Agree but… NIL and facilities are separate and the schools and NCAA want it that way. They want donations and sponsorships to be separate. The don’t want employees or they would be forced to share the TV money. The answer is IU needs to spend the TV money correctly and stop growing the endowments. That goes for a lot of schools. 

22 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

What makes you an expert and have more knowledge than the guy I posted that had IU 19th on facilities. I love these guys come on here to try to get attention by saying they are these so called insiders and try to get validation. I say that is a sad life if you have to go to multiple message boards talking like they know do much more than others. Talking about facilities over hand on BTB stating how you know where recruits are going by their social media follows. He is using different user name but the style of post are the same.

Scott, the guy that posted that is well known on Twitter. He literally does lists like that to spark heated discussion and cause for tons of replies and arguments. This leads to more engagement. He is not an expert at all and if you took 5 min to read his lists and the replies you would see this is a known thing. I understand you don’t do social so maybe you can’t understand. It is fake. 

I didn’t claim not to be the same guy Scott. What is your point and already offered to DM you my phone number. You are obsessed with me because you disagree. 

Why do I have knowledge of this… I know lots and lots of high school kids getting recruited and going on visits. I went with my own kid in last few years. I have seen these schools with my own eyes very recently including IU. I also have been a part of recent conversations with players (not my own) who this stuff matters greatly too. 
 

your anger around this is crazy to me.

I will say again - I NEVER ONCE SAID I WAS AN INSIDER - I hate that freaking term and feel most all of them don’t know crap.