FW_Hoosier

28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Add to it, I think LeBron has always wanted to play for a really great coach. I think playing for Pop would really appeal to LeBron. Spoelstra is good, but was really young in his career when LeBron was there. I think LeBron sometimes envy's that Jordan and Kobe had a guy like Phil and he's had Silas, Brown, Blatt and Lue. 

But would Pop want to put up with LeBron’s primadonna act?  Doesn’t really seem like his personality would mesh very well with the Spurs’ culture.  And I’m not sure a great player like Kawhi (about whom there’s already been rumblings of a disconnect) would be all that thrilled to play second fiddle to LeBron.  As great as he is, I feel like the way things have unraveled in Cleveland make him seem like a pretty toxic teammate, and he doesn’t have many more years of playing at a peak level left.  Kyrie looks like a total genius for getting out from under his shadow now. 

18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think Houston and SA will make big pushes. LeBron and Paul are close as we all know, and Daryl Morey is a GM that is creative enough to find a way to make it happen. I wouldn't discount SA either, which could be a better fit than Houston, just because Kawai doesn't have to have the ball all the time and while he's supremely talented, would probably be more open to playing second fiddle than Harden. There's probably a team that will come out of nowhere and content as well. Don't discount Miami?

But is Miami really a championship contender with Lebron?  I don’t see it.  Washington would be interesting. 

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I actually think the Cavs did about as well as they could today. Seemed like a long shot, but I think they managed to get better today, but also get younger and more athletic for a post-LeBron future. IMO, Clarkson, Nance, Hill and Hood are a better fit for Cleveland/LeBron than the guys they shipped out. I love IT and Crowder, but Crowder had struggled this year for whatever reason, and IT is too injured and too much of a defensive liability. 

Hill is certainly a drop-off from IT offensivelty, but he puts a shooter alongside LeBron and as you mentioned he's a much better defensive player than IT. Clarkson can straight get buckets, and Hood and Nance are promising young, athletic players. That's also a decent (not great or anything like Boston, Philly or Milwaukee) core along with the Brooklyn pick and Cleveland's own 1st rounder to begin rebuilding when LeBron leaves. 

I'd say Boston and Toronto are now the clear favorites, but I do like what Cleveland did here. 

Totally agree with everything you said.  Seems pretty clear LeBron is gonna be getting out of Cleveland as fast as possible after they lose in the playoffs.  Question is, where does he go?  I don’t really see many situations that are going to allow him to compete for a title.  Maybe Houston, San Antonio, Philly?

3 hours ago, Indykev said:

Troy sent to the G to get some playing time. I wish they would trade him to a place that would play him. D'Antoni doesnt like him.

Troy sprained his MCL at the end of November and wasn’t able to play until about two weeks ago.  I think he’s just getting his legs back in the G League.

Edit: Hoax

I’m at the Bulls-Raptors game right now.  OG hasn’t had much of an impact, 3 rebounds and that’s it.  On offense, he runs to the corner and stands there while Lowry and Derozan run the show.

Bryant scores 1 point in 4 minutes in his first NBA game with the Lakers.

13 hours ago, Indykev said:

Would have been nice to have this stroke in AH right now.  Could have lived with his bad D.

He’d probably be bringing more than Johnson is.

Now Vic goes cold.  Not looking good for the Pacers.

Why aren’t PG and Melo taking it to the rim?  Indy isn’t that big inside and they’re settling for a bunch of terrible jumpers.

PG wilting back in Banker’s Life.  Vic looks like the better player right now, although he’s not having a crazy game so far either.

Sabonas also looks good.  Active on the glass and just had a nice post-up score.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/12/11/16763180/victor-oladipo-paul-george-trade-indiana-pacers

Vic weighs in on the vicious debate raging at HSN, lol

Anyone see RoJo on any draft boards lately?

Hard to write this off as a fluke anymore.  Vic is becoming a legit NBA superstar.

31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Right now Paul George is better than Vic. If Vic continues this play for a season, it's fair to have he conversation if he has caught him. History only has a small part of the pie when discussing who is the better player, but the sample size isn't big enough to say Vic has caught him... Yet. 

The better discussion for Vic might be when can we start talking about him as the best two guard in the East?

Seems like DeRozan and Beal are the only other Eastern Conference SGs in the discussion with Vic.  Of those three, DeRozan is the leader in PPG, APG, FT%, and FG%.  Vic is the leader in SPG, BPG, 3P%, and eFG%.  Beal is just barely the leader in T/OPG, although he’s averaging slightly more PPG than Vic.  They all have pretty similar stats up to this point, but I would say that it goes: 1. DeRozan, 2. Vic, 3. Beal at this point.  There’s an argument to be made for Vic at #1 though, considering how efficiently he’s scoring, how well he’s shooting from three, and what he brings on defense.

19 minutes ago, JerseyHoosier said:

Here's a nice article about Vic.

 

How Victor Oladipo went from Paul George trade punchline to possible Pacers All-Star

Awesome to see Vic becoming the best player he could possibly be.  I should have expected it, as that’s exactly what he did at IU.  The kid is just driven.  He’s not gonna waste an ounce of his natural talent.

10 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Really, couldn't be further off. 

Anthony was 4-17, to go along with Westbrook's 7-21. They all shot poorly and last I checked 4-17 is worse than 4-16. PG was -2 on the night. Carmelo was -21. Did you actually watch the game?

The Thunder were up 25-10 and PG was 2-4 for 6 points in the first quarter, they were dominating, then they went to sleep and all played poorly and down to the lowly Kings.

In the prior game, the Thunder were up 18 on the Trail Blazers, then they went to sleep. It's a recurring theme and one they have to address. PG finished 10-21 for the game high of 27 points, to go with 5 boards and 3 steals. Melo was kicked out of the game on a BS call, finished with 15 (and -9).

Same deal in the L to the Celtics. Won the first quarter 31-18, and the 2nd 24-19. Lost the second half badly.But PG was 9-20 for 25 (again, game high), 10 rebounds in his double-double. Melo the clear #2, what? Melo was 3-17 for 10 points in that game and the reason why they lost.

Are you guys going to do this all season, wait until PG has a bad game and then post negatively about him? Good grief.

You know I’ve been on your side in the PG debate.  I just turned on the last 3 or 4 minutes of that game last night, and Melo seemed to be much more involved in the offense, while PG was pretty invisible.  Just giving my thoughts on that one stretch of the game I watched, no axe to grind.  Interestingly, Melo and PG have pretty much identical stats through the first 10 games.  Either way, the Thunder have really been struggling to start the season.

Just watched the end of the Thunder’s loss to the Kings.  PG with an awful game - 4/16 from the field and totally invisible in crunch time, except for the three he bricked with less than 30 seconds left.  Watching that game, it seems that Melo has established himself as the clear #2 on the Thunder.

Meanwhile, it looks like Zeller is still rounding into form coming off his injury.  This clip gave me Trevor Mbakwe flashbacks.

https://streamable.com/sz1jz

Really interesting read.  Cool to see Yogi in the cover photo, and good for JBJ for getting mentioned.  I wonder if the Dee Brown mentioned in the article is the former Illini player?  I loved that Illinois team, glad to see he’s done well for himself.

Interesting idea about the “redshirt contracts.”  It seems like that would work in theory, but I think the exposure provided by big time college basketball would still attract most of the high-level talent.   Not a bad idea though.

18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

They did to make the ECF in the 90's so I have no idea what you are talking about. They were in the ECF in 94, 95, 98, 99, and 2000 while going to the NBA championship.

And I never said the PG teams were better than those teams.

You guys are right, getting beat down in the first round by the Pistons and Knicks, losing in the first round to mediocre Celtics and Hawks teams, and missing the playoffs entirely were very impressive performances by the 90s Pacers teams that didn’t make it to the ECF.  Definitely way more successful seasons than the PG Pacers teams had.

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Essentially, you're saying that those two PG teams are better than a lot of the 90's teams just because the 90's teams had a much tougher road.  That's not how I evaluate how good a team is personally, but you do you man. 

The PG Pacers teams were eliminated by a historically great Heat team 3 years in a row, and took them to 6 or more games every time... Meanwhile the 90s Pacers teams were eliminated by a historically great Bulls team once.  Who really had the tougher road?  But hey, if you want to discount two of the eight great seasons the Pacers have ever had in the NBA because you hate the player that got you there, you do you.  I’m glad you guys are happy he’s gone, but it’ll be a while before you’re ever that good again.

8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure, there are some bad voices in Indy media.  There are also some good, plugged into the Pacers voices that felt that way too. 

 

PG has some very obvious talent.  I'd argue all day that his talent far exceeds what you actually get, so yes he has intangibles.  That said, the fact that he has never hit a game winner says something.  I'm going to throw my BS flag on him being on some of the best Pacers teams ever.  Those couple years were very good, but they weren't anything stand out from what we had in the 90's and until the fight in the 2000's.  They weren't better than the 70's.  They just happened to be in a very weak conference.  

Not trying to bash PG, but when was he ever the reason the Pacers won anything in the playoffs?  

Lol see, you say he’s a top 15-20 player, then turn around and say the teams he was on were overrated and he never did anything for the Pacers.  That is PG bashing.  He was largely responsible for 2 of the 6 division titles the Pacers have ever won in the history of the franchise, and 2 of the 8 trips they have ever made to the conference finals.  Saying those Pacers teams were not among the best Pacers teams ever is pretty ridiculous.  And sorry, no one cares about the ABA.

The Pacers do not come close to reaching back-to-back conference finals without PG, much less taking the Heat to the brink.  Saying PG was never the reason the Pacers won anything in the playoffs is just wrong, and exactly the type of biased PG bashing I’m talking about.

11 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

When I lost respect for PG was when they wanted to use him at the 4 and he refused to do it.  To me a player does what the coach thinks is best for the team.. To me PG put himself in front of the team and i never could respect him again.  if you live in the Indy area you would know that a lot of the media did not really have to much respect for PG as well and it has been going on more than a year.

“The media” is incredibly stupid.  Especially the clowns that dominate the Indy market.

9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

That's a fair response. I'm not sure I've seen anyone say PG is out of the top 20 though, so maybe the hate isn't all that hateful?

The hate is kind of exemplified by IU Scott’s comment above.  Like I said, I get it because PG soured on the Pacers last season, but outside of last year, PG was never a “selfish” player that “lacked intangibles.”  He was the go-to player on some of the best teams in Pacers history.  He just decided he wanted out of Indy, and as HH has said, you can’t really blame him considering how Bird blew up the team.  He wasn’t the right fit for the Pacers anymore, but in the right situation he most certainly can be one of the go-to options on a championship contender.  

That makes it hard to say that Indy “won” the trade, as neither Vic or Sabonas is that type of player even in the best case scenario.  But given the circumstances, it’s looking more and more like the trade was a win-win for both teams.