rico Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 57 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Really? How many shots did he take in the NBA? How many passes did he make? Shoot, how many dribbles? Look, I’m as much of an IU homer as the next guy, but it seems ridiculous to me to claim that a guy who wasn’t even the best player on his college team for most of his career and never played a minute in the NBA was a better player than a Hall of Famer. He was the best player on his college team his Senior year. It wasn't his fault that he played with Calbert Cheaney and Greg Graham for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 4 hours ago, 5fouls said: You are looking at it strictly from a NBA perspective. Was Dennis Rodman a better Bssketball plsyer than Damon Bailey. One had a long and very successful NBA career. The other was the better basketball player. Yes, I am looking at it from an NBA perspective because the NBA is the best basketball league in the world. Literally, you have to be one of the best in the world to make the NBA, and as a 20 year old rookie coming off an ACL, OG started on a 55+ win team. I love Damon Bailey, he made me an IU fan. Dennis Rodman is a HOF’er and a better basketball player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, BGleas said: Yes, I am looking at it from an NBA perspective because the NBA is the best basketball league in the world. Literally, you have to be one of the best in the world to make the NBA, and as a 20 year old rookie coming off an ACL, OG started on a 55+ win team. I love Damon Bailey, he made me an IU fan. Dennis Rodman is a HOF’er and a better basketball player. Do you agree with the premise that specialists keep better all around players out of the NBA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Do you agree with the premise that specialists keep better all around players out of the NBA? Not really. Also, Rodman wasn’t a specialist. He was an elite rebounder, defender and athlete, had a high b-ball IQ and was a really good passer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 Got to say, that as much as I loved Damon, I always felt like with him the same as my daughter! I always felt my daughter who was 5'2" needed to switch bodies with her friend who was 6' tall! My daughter was a center in a guards body, while her friend was a guard in a forwards body! Damon unfortunately, when he got beyond high school was out of position in my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 Fouls I get your point but the Rodman-Damon example is in no way comparable to Morgan - OG. As I said at the start of this thread I think OG is the better all around player - and he absolutely is an elite defender, it’s why he guards LeBron, Harden and basically all other teams’ best players, as in the best players in the world, as a rookie and coming off an ACL. As I also said I think this is a debatable question and the posts above reflect that, but no way does Morgan come close to doing what OG did this year in the NBA. It’s not about stats, it’s how well he played on both ends. Hell, he flat out shut down Harden in one game - there are not many NBA vets that did that, OG did it as a rookie. He’s genuinely turning into an outstanding NBA player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 SIAP Juwan Morgan’s effect on team in declaring for the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 I know this thread is about Morgan but wanted to chime in. Love Rodman. Was an Elite level specialist (all sports have specialists) that found a niche and was rewarded with a great career. He also was smart enough to play on Zeke's Pistons team and Jordan's Bulls team. I'm a huge fan but is he a better basketball player than Bailey? Depends on definition and how you weight each category of the game (shooting, rebounding, defense, passing, making team better,etc...) Bailey was so special though. And in this case stats will never tell the story. Knew the game, saw the game, game awareness, played the game better and no doubt was a key in making those early 90's teams so special and smart players. Anyone who played with Bailey had no choice to get smarter. I'm not sure if the same could be said for Rodman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 8 hours ago, BGleas said: Not really. Also, Rodman wasn’t a specialist. He was an elite rebounder, defender and athlete, had a high b-ball IQ and was a really good passer too. Sounds similar to someone on IU that a lot of people are convinced would never start on a championship team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 When do we start the thread to argue that Antwan Randle el is a better football player than Tom Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: When do we start the thread to argue that Antwan Randle el is a better football player than Tom Brady? Antwan was a better rusher and receiver.........and Brady was better with the ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Sounds similar to someone on IU that a lot of people are convinced would never start on a championship team... Even with your love affair with him that's a stretch. Move over Robert Horry, AC Green, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, Bill Bradley, John Havlicheck (first 4 titles only)....there's a walk on in Bloomington that is a better role player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Even with your love affair with him that's a stretch. Move over Robert Horry, AC Green, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, Bill Bradley, John Havlicheck (first 4 titles only)....there's a walk on in Bloomington that is a better role player. Well I figured we all had enough intelligence to understand you have to adjust for competition level, but it isn't much of a stretch. He does many things that impact at a very high level in comparison to his competition level. Rodman is a good example of how those skills get magnified on a good team, not diminished. Or perhaps Derrick McKey is a slightly better example of the type of impact a player like McRoberts can have on a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Well I figured we all had enough intelligence to understand you have to adjust for competition level, but it isn't much of a stretch. He does many things that impact at a very high level in comparison to his competition level. Rodman is a good example of how those skills get magnified on a good team, not diminished. Or perhaps Derrick McKey is a slightly better example of the type of impact a player like McRoberts can have on a good team. The difference being that Rodman(although at a lessor school) and McKey were studs in college. I think a better example would be Bill Laimbeer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 10 hours ago, rico said: He was the best player on his college team his Senior year. It wasn't his fault that he played with Calbert Cheaney and Greg Graham for 3 years. And they weren’t really that good that year. Honestly, this is the first time I’ve really looked into Bailey’s career. I thought he was better the way people talk about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: And they weren’t really that good that year. Honestly, this is the first time I’ve really looked into Bailey’s career. I thought he was better the way people talk about him. If Bailey wpuld have played on recent IU teams he would have averaged over 20 for his career. And so much of his game did not show up in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: If Bailey wpuld have played on recent IU teams he would have averaged over 20 for his career. And so much of his game did not show up in the box. So you're saying Tom Crean would have utilized him better than Knight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, rico said: The difference being that Rodman(although at a lessor school) and McKey were studs in college. I think a better example would be Bill Laimbeer? I understand, but I'm talking about Zach doing in college what those guys did in the NBA (sans Rodman's rebounding). So the fact that Zach was a stud in high school and a roleplayer in college would fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: If Bailey wpuld have played on recent IU teams he would have averaged over 20 for his career. And so much of his game did not show up in the box. Agree on Bailey, and I seriously hate that this conversation has put me in a position to not be on his side, or Morgan’s side for that matter, I love both players. But in the Rodman discussion (which is a really weird one by the way) people are also leaving out that he was one of the smartest players of his era. Like Bailey, and maybe in a different way, his b-ball IQ was sky high and he also did tons of things that helped his teams win but didn’t show up in the box score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: teMAnd they weren’t really that good that year. Honestly, this is the first time I’ve really looked into Bailey’s career. I thought he was better the way people talk about him. The 94 team was pretty good ad made the sweet 16 and Bailey averaged almost 23 points a game that year. The game at KU was one of the best games I have ever watched an IU team played in a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazin Hazin Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 You can call Rodman a specialist- but he was the two-time defensive player of the year. (never mind his rebounding) That's not exactly a small part of the game- it only gets overlooked because it's really hard to quantify statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 Wow this is still going on lol. I mean can we get an analogy with 2 SF type guys as opposed to a guard and a big man? It's really not even comparable, and comparing damon bailey to Rodman is just altogether odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: And they weren’t really that good that year. Honestly, this is the first time I’ve really looked into Bailey’s career. I thought he was better the way people talk about him. Sweet Sixteen good and knocked out by Boston College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnRon Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 Also just because Rodman played solid defense doesn't mean he wasn't a rebounding specialist. Most rebounders play solid defense. When anybody thinks of Rodman they think of his rebounding ability, so if he isn't a rebounding specialist then those don't exist at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, BGleas said: Agree on Bailey, and I seriously hate that this conversation has put me in a position to not be on his side, or Morgan’s side for that matter, I love both players. But in the Rodman discussion (which is a really weird one by the way) people are also leaving out that he was one of the smartest players of his era. Like Bailey, and maybe in a different way, his b-ball IQ was sky high and he also did tons of things that helped his teams win but didn’t show up in the box score. And Rodman also played on pretty good teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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