Player Development

[Drroogh]

I know a lot of people, myself included give FCTC credit for developing players like VO. However, I wonder how many give CAM and staff credit for developing Juwan Morgan these last two years:? 

[Muckraker]

10 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

I know a lot of people, myself included give FCTC credit for developing players like VO. However, I wonder how many give CAM and staff credit for developing Juwan Morgan these last two years:? 

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. 

[milehiiu]

In terms of Victor.... It is my  impression... that Victor had a deep seeded passion to develop himself to become the player he became.  And still to this day, in the NBA. 

I honestly can't give Crean any credit for the work Victor put in at Cook Hall.

[Zlinedavid]

22 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

In terms of Victor.... It is my  impression... that Victor had a deep seeded passion to develop himself to become the player he became.  And still to this day, in the NBA. 

I honestly can't give Crean any credit for the work Victor put in at Cook Hall.

I'll give Crean credit for finding Vic and keeping him on the right track in general. I.e: if Crean said he needed to work on X, Vic would work on X. A lot.

That said, that young man is driven on levels that are rare, and odds are, he'd have thrived anywhere.

[5fouls]

47 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

In terms of Victor.... It is my  impression... that Victor had a deep seeded passion to develop himself to become the player he became.  And still to this day, in the NBA. 

I honestly can't give Crean any credit for the work Victor put in at Cook Hall.

I think Vic, himself, would disagree with you.

[milehiiu]

10 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

I'll give Crean credit for finding Vic and keeping him on the right track in general. I.e: if Crean said he needed to work on X, Vic would work on X. A lot.

That said, that young man is driven on levels that are rare, and odds are, he'd have thrived anywhere.

Oh.... all the kudo's to Coach Crean for finding Vic.  I will never forget the video of Vic, when he first arrived on campus. Was at a frat house.  Showing off his dunking ability.  And how one of our former members mocked him.... saying that dunking the ball was all that Vic could do.  LOL.

[milehiiu]

10 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I think Vic, himself, would disagree with you.

I respect that.  And the fact that Vic gives credit to Coach Crean.  I just recall all the hard work Vic put in at Cook Hall.... with no coached in attendance.

[HoosierJax]

1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

I respect that.  And the fact that Vic gives credit to Coach Crean.  I just recall all the hard work Vic put in at Cook Hall.... with no coached in attendance.

I never seen Crean in any of those late night videos of Victor working his tail off at Cook Hall

[milehiiu]

2 hours ago, HoosierJax said:

I never seen Crean in any of those late night videos of Victor working his tail off at Cook Hall

Me either.  Vic had and has a great work ethic. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

15 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I think Vic, himself, would disagree with you.

He would, and has.

Crean / Crean’s staff was very good in developing players, really no question there at all. Troy? Couldn’t have been more raw. Vic came in a fantastic athlete with great D and rebounding and no offensive game. Absolutely had and has a great work ethic, you don’t get to his level without it, but you need development and he got it in a major way. Watford, OG, Yogi, Bryant etc all developed well under Crean and staff. The only significant player whose development was there but lacking in my opinion was Cody.

[FKIM01]

5 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Oh.... all the kudo's to Coach Crean for finding Vic.  I will never forget the video of Vic, when he first arrived on campus. Was at a frat house.  Showing off his dunking ability.  And how one of our former members mocked him.... saying that dunking the ball was all that Vic could do.  LOL.

Let me guess...the guy that flamed out as a high school girls coach?

[Feathery]

Coaches can give a player a road map, but player development falls on the player. The player has to get into the gym and put in the work. Victor was in Cook putting up 1000 shots a day, 1000!  That is on top of workouts and practice. Sure Crean said, work on your 3’s and Victor did that. 

Al Durham was in Cook Hall this last year working his tail off on his shooting as well. He jumped his shooting 7% in one off season. That’s credit to the player. Sure Archie said, work on your 3’s and Al did that. 

To me I look for coaches to put players in a position to succeed. I look for players to put in the time to develop their skills and improve. When both happens, you will have success. 

[milehiiu]

47 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Let me guess...the guy that flamed out as a high school girls coach?

Good guess.  Yes. 

[milehiiu]

Let me attempt to make this clear. Some players rely  on their coach for development.  Can't say that Coach Crean  had nothing to do with Vic's progress.  Of course Coach was there in practice to help.  However, Vic had in innate desire to exceed.  And took it upon himself, unlike others to become the best he could be.... and he did that on his own.

[Drroogh]

Not sure how this thread became ALL about FCTC when the intent was to spark some conversation about CAM and staff. For instance I think coach Marshal was a Home Run hire. Someone, had to help Juwan develop those inside moves , because he didn't abuse other teams defenses the prior two years like he did the last two years! C'mon let's talk about the future not the past!

[milehiiu]

20 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

Not sure how this thread became ALL about FCTC when the intent was to spark some conversation about CAM and staff. For instance I think coach Marshal was a Home Run hire. Someone, had to help Juwan develop those inside moves , because he didn't abuse other teams defenses the prior two years like he did the last two years! C'mon let's talk about the future not the past!

Yeah.  Ed Schilling has gotten a lot of flack... here and by Dan Dakich.  But his Indiana roots run deep.  Very connected to Indiana High School coaches.  And I am of the opinion  that Ed is just the kind of connection to Indiana that Coach Miller needed.

Ed Schilling - Men's Basketball Coach - Indiana University Athletics

[hoosier_exotics]

19 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Yeah.  Ed Schilling has gotten a lot of flack... here and by Dan Dakich.  But his Indiana roots run deep.  Very connected to Indiana High School coaches.  And I am of the opinion  that Ed is just the kind of connection to Indiana that Coach Miller needed.

Ed Schilling - Men's Basketball Coach - Indiana University Athletics

Agreed! Ed is our ace here..  Yogi spent a lot of time back at park tudor working with Ed and April, while at IU .

Also I  agree, that the vast majority of improvement, lies directly on  the players themselves.

[milehiiu]

2 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Agreed! Ed is our ace here..  Yogi spent a lot of time back at park tudor working with Ed and April, while at IU .

Also I  agree, that the vast majority of improvement, lies directly on  the players themselves.

Ed was working hard...to steal Indiana talent, when he was at UCLA.  Why is that ?  Because Alford knew Ed's connections to Indiana is why.

Thanks for your support. And I feel Vic was an exception to the norm.  While others work on their own.... Vic was on another level.  He took what he got from the coaches. And then... went to work on his own.  I can't say enough for how Vic went to work on his own to improve his game.  However, I honestly believe it had to do with his determination to prove his father wrong. A father who did not believe anything could come of sports.

[hoosier_exotics]

6 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Ed was working hard...to steal Indiana talent, when he was at UCLA.  Why is that ?  Because Alford knew Ed's connections to Indiana is why.

Thanks for your support. And I feel Vic was an exception to the norm.  While others work on their own.... Vic was on another level.  He took what he got from the coaches. And then... went to work on his own.  I can't say enough for how Vic went to work on his own to improve his game.  However, I honestly believe it had to do with his determination to prove his father wrong. A father who did not believe anything could come of sports.

Very good point about his father! I hadnt thought of that, but I would say you are spot on

[Drroogh]

So this thread has brought me  to a place I didn't expect. A friend of mine, A school teacher complained that a local talented Basketball player came in to the class and all he said was "you -have to work hard!" She completely missed the point! Unfortunately, after a stellar career as an undersized power forward at Auburn and then as a professional in Europe, he was taken WAY to early in life by a rip tide in Florida! Worked with his mother, it was a bad time! I guess the point of my digress is that, it does truly depend on  the individuals 'have to work hard' mindset.

[milehiiu]

3 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

So this thread has brought me  to a place I didn't expect. A friend of mine, A school teacher complained that a local talented Basketball player came in to the class and all he said was "you -have to work hard!" She completely missed the point! Unfortunately, after a stellar career as an undersized power forward at Auburn and then as a professional in Europe, he was taken WAY to early in life by a rip tide in Florida! Worked with his mother, it was a bad time! I guess the point of my digress is that, it does truly depend on  the individuals 'have to work hard' mindset.

Appreciate this post.