5fouls Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? Wasn't Forrester on the greatest high school team that ever lived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerHoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? I guess I have to ask a couple more qualifying questions.... First the top ranked player that plays on a team with less success is this person the only real D1 player on the team with little help? I mean one player can only carry a team so far. Next question is the borderline 4 star 3 star player were they on a team the previous year with a stud or have they been carrying the team too and basically find a way to win? Also are they surrounded by other 4 star 3 star talent? My follow up question to all of this is what kind of environment is the player coming in to? Are they coming into a winning culture like let's say Duke Louisville MSU etc that is established or are they coming into a dumpster fire or a new culture being established? There are alot of factors that contribute. For example If I am only going to get one year of play from the top 25 player but have a winning culture surrounding them with upper classman leadership to lead the way then heck yea every day of the week I'd choose them cause they will be taught to win. Now if I am in a dumpster fire and starting over or wanting to establish a new culture then that also depends...cause if you are only getting a one year rental with the top 25 player then I would choose the other player simply for the fact of being able to establish a winning culture in that particular player and how I want them to play the game not to mention they know how to win with a killer mindset. Overall I think you have to establish if each player during your scouting has high basketball IQ can play basketball the way you like and also if they have that killer instinct that likes to compete. I think that is what defines a winner whether they have won at a high level or not a person who will compete work hard to make themselves better and not back down from anyone. I will take that type of player over any other type of player. That type of player is an Oladipo. I want a type of player no matter the class get right up in someone's face that aren't working hard and chew them out or throw them out of practice if need be. A gym rat that will sleep in the gym on a cot. That is what we need in our players. I think we will get that next year in all of the players. They seem like the blue collar bring your lunch pail to work kinda players from what I have read. I think what this team has is players in leadership roles and upperclassmen that are still under the Crean mindset. Very sloppy lazy low IQ play that leads to inconsistency extreme laziness and brain neutral plays. From what I have read Archie expects much more from the players than Crean ever has once Crean felt his seat getting hot. I feel that that sloppiness laziness and low IQ has seeped over into the players Archie has recruited. That I feel is the overall major problem. Couple that with injuries to our PG and a little bit of roster mismanagement you get a struggling team. I think that that will go away next year and you will see a very different team. I am sorry for such a long post but this sorta question has been on my mind for awhile and just wanted to get my thoughts out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 hours ago, 5fouls said: Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? Smith played on a winning high school team, Stevenson, in the Chicagoland area. They had Bronson who as everyone knows is a winner. Smith, was always known for not playing hard and an electric dunker. Rumors, which has legs, was that he did not go to the same college as Brunson because he didn't want to be in his shadow and wanted to be the "guy." While Brunson won championships, Archie has had to deal with that mentality and we have seen that play out on the court and with his dad. Then again, he gets close to the most playing time. Maybe coaching staff sees something different when they continue to look the same on the road and loose closely at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 hours ago, 5fouls said: Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? Give me a PG like Aaron Craft and TJ McConnell who plays hard and is very gritty defensive player over the more talented player who gets by their athletic ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIUFan Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Must be the RMK influence on me over all these years beginning in the 70's. Give me 5 players with just adequate physical abilities who stay 4yrs with a desire to be coached, high IQs(Preferably coach's kids), tenacious, under appreciated with a chips on their shoulders who hate to lose any day and twice on Sunday. I could care less about * ratings and the OAD players. That's the type of players who play the game that is enjoyable to watch.The W's would take care of themselves. Oh how I yearn for the good old days when RMK was in his prime. It is to weep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Unfortunately many of the players Archie has on this team are short on both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornHoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 6 hours ago, 5fouls said: Ideally, you want players that are both extremely talented and winners. We've had some of those over the last 10 years. Cody was a 3 time state champion in high school Yogi was a 2 time state champion in high school Vic played on a traditional national power What else do all of these guys have in common? They are probably IU's 3 most impactful players of the last decade. Now, admittedly, I have no idea how successful Devonte Green's, Justin Smith's, and Al Durham's high school teams were, or for that matter, any of the other out of state player's high school teams were. I do know that Trayce's Center Grove team never got beyond semi-state, Same for Damezi and South Bend Riley. Brunk's Southport teams were even less successful. Now, I realize that high school teams that win championships do so with more than just a single player. But, I also believe that knowing how to win big games is a trait that can set players apart. Looking at next year's recruits. Galloway won a State championship, and played in another. Leal has not made it past Regional yet, but Bloomington South is #1 and undefeated so far this year. I don't know about Geronimo since he is out of state. Looking at our 2021 in-state targets. Furst and Kaufman both already have state titles, and it's not far-fetched to think that one or both may get another (or even 2). Lander, however, has a big red flag when it comes to winning. Last year's Reitz team was 12-12 and did not get out of sectional. This year's team is better at 10-5, but is still losing big to the better teams on their schedule. I saw Reitz play against Carmel, and admittedly it was one game, but while I saw a lot of talent from Lander, I did not see the Yogi-like leader that would carry a team on his back. So, I ask Hoosier Nation. Assume you can only have one of two players. They play the same position. One is a 5 star, top 25 player, but plays on a high school team that has limited success. Your other option is player ranked 80-120, which usually puts him in the low 4 star to high 3 star range, The difference is that player 2 plays on a highly successful high school team, probably even has a championship under his belt. Who you got? How important is being a 'winner' to helping your college team win? And, could that be part of the problem with this year's team? I want a guy who can carry a team on his back regardless of surrounding talent. Too many variables to answer correctly and take TJD for example. Never made it past semi but the kid is and will be special. Not enough supporting cast? Guys that win a championship, was it him or a great supporting cast? Damezi for me being in the SB area, the red flag was he wasn’t a player that would take over & show you that greatness or selfishness. Truth be hold, his first two yrs has been no existent. Maybe a key to recruiting players is to look for that warrior mentality, a guy who says to the team I got this. Some call it selfishness, I call it a WARRIOR and LEADER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 I want a talented guy that is also a winner. Is that too much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButlerHoosier Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 So there is an article at the Daily Hoosier that I think is completely related to this. It states that everyone that has insider info thinks that Archie is handcuffed in some form or fashion. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-don-fischer-sees-continuing-lack-of-floor-leadership-on-this-hoosier-squad/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, ButlerHoosier said: So there is an article at the Daily Hoosier that I think is completely related to this. It states that everyone that has insider info thinks that Archie is handcuffed in some form or fashion. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-don-fischer-sees-continuing-lack-of-floor-leadership-on-this-hoosier-squad/ And if you listen to the Dakich podcast that's linked Dakich finally admits that the poor play might be on the players, specifically the upper classmen. He talks IU bball at the 8:15 to roughly 10:20 mark and mentions the Smith / Green "mf'n n-word" name calling from about the 19 minute mark until 21:20. Sounds like he criticizes both guys but in his example clearly Green is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 13 hours ago, Lurker said: And if you listen to the Dakich podcast that's linked Dakich finally admits that the poor play might be on the players, specifically the upper classmen. He talks IU bball at the 8:15 to roughly 10:20 mark and mentions the Smith / Green "mf'n n-word" name calling from about the 19 minute mark until 21:20. Sounds like he criticizes both guys but in his example clearly Green is the problem. Listened to the part you cited...all I can say is...wow Sounds like Justin was being "captain-like" and Devonte lashed out in a manner a leader never would... I've thought there was friction between the 2 since the presser (FSU?) where Justin said he told Devonte to "keep shooting, but take GOOD shots." To which Devonte responded, "Every shot is a good shot." Justin just said, "Whatever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShyGuy Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 Hey everyone loving the passion up in here as always if anybody has the need or knows someone who wants to add another 10 % to their ball game pls check this out bit.ly/VerticalJump2020. This is a great aid and would be a big help to the coaches who worked hard and just want people to see this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.