Jonathan Lawson-2021

[gnet550]

New name to the board I believe

[5fouls]

Love reading about stuff like this from the players Archie is recruiting.

According to the Gatorade Player of the Year release, Lawson is an avid chess player, and he has volunteered locally as a peer tutor and as part of elementary school literacy programs.  Lawson has also maintained an A average in the classroom.

[FW_Hoosier]

40 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Love reading about stuff like this from the players Archie is recruiting.

According to the Gatorade Player of the Year release, Lawson is an avid chess player, and he has volunteered locally as a peer tutor and as part of elementary school literacy programs.  Lawson has also maintained an A average in the classroom.

I often wonder how much this matters.  We’ve had a lot of players who were “great in the classroom” over the last 3-4 years, and it hasn’t translated into much success on the court.  

[5fouls]

6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I often wonder how much this matters.  We’ve had a lot of players who were “great in the classroom” over the last 3-4 years, and it hasn’t translated into much success on the court.  

Well, I can say it's better than having players that get suspended for grades, beat up their girlfriends, get busted for DUI, and commit murder.

 

[FW_Hoosier]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Well, I can say it's better than having players that get suspended for grades, beat up their girlfriends, get busted for DUI, and commit murder.

 

Lol, I would actually prefer it if Archie only recruited serial murderers and war criminals.

You’re making a pretty big jump from “not a great student” to “murderer,” no?  My point is I’m not sure that classroom smarts necessarily translates to basketball IQ/winning on the court.  As long as they’re staying out of major trouble, I could care less how focused they are on academics.

[Threedom]

15 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I often wonder how much this matters.  We’ve had a lot of players who were “great in the classroom” over the last 3-4 years, and it hasn’t translated into much success on the court.  

I get your point, but it just speaks to their character.  This info alone won’t get them 10 boards a game, but good grades shows discipline, which can parlay into developing their talent and skill.  Volunteering shows selflessness, concerned about others, likely a good teammate.  I like this info but it alone doesn’t make a great baller. 

[5fouls]

Just now, FW_Hoosier said:

Lol, I would actually prefer it if Archie only recruited serial murderers and war criminals.

You’re making a pretty big jump from “not a great student” to “murderer,” no?  My point is I’m not sure that classroom smarts necessarily translates to basketball IQ/winning on the court.  As long as they’re staying out of major trouble, I could care less how focused they are on academics.

Sometimes great kids and great students get unfairly judged for being a positive role model.  It's almost like it's held against them when it comes to the perception they have as an athlete.

And, you should note that the quote I highlighted not only mentioned his academic success, but also references his role as a tutor (i.e. mentor) for elementary children.  To me, doing something like that is even more impressive than simply succeeding in the classroom.

[IU Scott]

28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I often wonder how much this matters.  We’ve had a lot of players who were “great in the classroom” over the last 3-4 years, and it hasn’t translated into much success on the court.  

To me the most important thing is what the kids do in the classroom before what they do on the court.

[FW_Hoosier]

6 minutes ago, Threedom said:

I get your point, but it just speaks to their character.  This info alone won’t get them 10 boards a game, but good grades shows discipline, which can parlay into developing their talent and skill.  Volunteering shows selflessness, concerned about others, likely a good teammate.  I like this info but it alone doesn’t make a great baller. 

Definitely agree that all things being equal, you’d prefer to root for the high character player over the low character player.

I’m just not sure if a focus on recruiting kids with “character” who are good students is essential or even the best way to build a winning program.  Archie’s best teams at Dayton had plenty of “low character” kids.  Give me the baller who’s a ferocious competitor on the court but blows off class over the soft player who’s a straight A student.  (Not to say that being a good student/kid and being a great player are mutually exclusive.)

[Coach Robby]

35 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I often wonder how much this matters.  We’ve had a lot of players who were “great in the classroom” over the last 3-4 years, and it hasn’t translated into much success on the court.  

Well, look at Sampson’s last team. Probably the most talented team top to bottom that underachieved bc they were dumbasses off the court. Besides Gordon and DJ, they were all morons who couldn’t care less. Several pro players resided on that roster. Imagine that team with social media available today...geesh

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Definitely agree that all things being equal, you’d prefer to root for the high character player over the low character player.

I’m just not sure if a focus on recruiting kids with “character” who are good students is essential or even the best way to build a winning program.  Archie’s best teams at Dayton had plenty of “low character” kids.  Give me the baller who’s a ferocious competitor on the court but blows off class over the soft player who’s a straight A student.  (Not to say that being a good student/kid and being a great player are mutually exclusive.)

So you are saying you can't be a good student and be a tough player.  What a person is like off the court  doesn't mean they are the same on the court.  For me if I have to choose I will pick s high quality person over how good of a player they are.

[Threedom]

3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Definitely agree that all things being equal, you’d prefer to root for the high character player over the low character player.

I’m just not sure if a focus on recruiting kids with “character” who are good students is essential or even the best way to build a winning program.  Archie’s best teams at Dayton had plenty of “low character” kids.  Give me the baller who’s a ferocious competitor on the court but blows off class over the soft player who’s a straight A student.  (Not to say that being a good student/kid and being a great player are mutually exclusive.)

If I’m being honest...I agree.  Let’s just win!  I’m not saying only recruit great students, and I don’t think that was 5 fouls point either, just it may indicate the discipline needed for this ferocious competitor we all seek. 

[Threedom]

Plus this kid can shoot the rock!  So come on!  This character and grades discussion is just gravy!

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Threedom said:

If I’m being honest...I agree.  Let’s just win!  I’m not saying only recruit great students, and I don’t think that was 5 fouls point either, just it may indicate the discipline needed for this ferocious competitor we all seek. 

I want to win as.much as anyone but not at all cost either.  The players first responsibility for any player is to go to class and do as best that they can.  Then the next thing is for them to be a good person of the court and be a good citizen.

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Threedom said:

If I’m being honest...I agree.  Let’s just win!  I’m not saying only recruit great students, and I don’t think that was 5 fouls point either, just it may indicate the discipline needed for this ferocious competitor we all seek. 

Exactly, my point was that, all other things being equal, it's good that Archie is more likely to recruit a character guy than one with off the court baggage.  I do feel, however, that these character guys are often unfairly labelled as not as tough.  In reality, being a mentor to elementary children is ten times tougher to do than walking around with a 'tude.  

[5fouls]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I want to win as.much as anyone but not at all cost either.  The players first responsibility for any player is to go to class and do as best that they can.  Then the next thing is for them to be a good person of the court and be a good citizen.

I think you have your first and second priorities backwards.  Give me the 'B' student who is a role model off the court over the 'A' student who does nothing else off the court in terms of 'citizenship' type activities.  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

I think you have your first and second priorities backwards.  Give me the 'B' student who is a role model off the court over the 'A' student who does nothing else off the court in terms of 'citizenship' type activities.  

I guess my point is that these things should come before anything they do on the court.

[FW_Hoosier]

13 minutes ago, Threedom said:

Plus this kid can shoot the rock!  So come on!  This character and grades discussion is just gravy!

48% from three is quite the stat.

[jv1972iu]

11 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I want to win as.much as anyone but not at all cost either.  The players first responsibility for any player is to go to class and do as best that they can.  Then the next thing is for them to be a good person of the court and be a good citizen.

Somewhere in this discussion, doesn't the coaching staff have to play a part in the development of the competitive spirit of their players?  I'm thinking of Izzo's famous football drills and rebounding....as an example.

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, jv1972iu said:

Somewhere in this discussion, doesn't the coaching staff have to play a part in the development of the competitive spirit of their players?  I'm thinking of Izzo's famous football drills and rebounding....as an example.

I tried it 1 time at the high school level and even before we got the pads on,  the principal pulled the plug on me. Love those type of drills.

I will share later on a drill not to do in practice,  learned the hard way.

[btownqb]

59 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Somewhere in this discussion, doesn't the coaching staff have to play a part in the development of the competitive spirit of their players?  I'm thinking of Izzo's famous football drills and rebounding....as an example.

I disagree at the college level that this should have to be taught. 

If a coach at the college level has to teach that he didn't do his job in recruiting.  

There isn't an either or here in terms of being a good person, good student, and a good basketball player. 

Peyton Manning, I'm sure was a good student.. look what he did for Indy off the court. Tim Tebow? 

I won't have any interest in rooting for low character individuals. That's how you end up with Sampson type crap, why would you be OK with that. 

[jv1972iu]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I disagree at the college level that this should have to be taught. 

If a coach at the college level has to teach that he didn't do his job in recruiting.  

There isn't an either or here in terms of being a good person, good student, and a good basketball player. 

Peyton Manning, I'm sure was a good student.. look what he did for Indy off the court. Tim Tebow? 

I won't have any interest in rooting for low character individuals. That's how you end up with Sampson type crap, why would you be OK with that. 

Fair enough.  Just so we're clear, I'm speaking of the situation of good student/kid without the highly competitive nature.  You don't think a coaching staff should work to try and bring out a toughness/competitive spirit in individual players?  That was my point.  Not arguing here.  😁

[MoyeCowbell]

13 hours ago, Threedom said:

I get your point, but it just speaks to their character.  This info alone won’t get them 10 boards a game, but good grades shows discipline, which can parlay into developing their talent and skill.  Volunteering shows selflessness, concerned about others, likely a good teammate.  I like this info but it alone doesn’t make a great baller. 

+1

Perfectly articulated. Being a mentor to little kids means a player has the capacity to be a mentor to incoming freshmen. It means he has the capacity and willingness to share knowledge and experience with others. Or to put it another way, he has the exact (and desirable) traits that are the bedrock of building/continuing a good "culture". 

[btownqb]

14 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Fair enough.  Just so we're clear, I'm speaking of the situation of good student/kid without the highly competitive nature.  You don't think a coaching staff should work to try and bring out a toughness/competitive spirit in individual players?  That was my point.  Not arguing here.  😁

No because they shouldn't have been offered a scholarship to begin with. 

Like Geno A says... we don't recruit or teach toughness and effort. Those are a given. 

[jv1972iu]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

No because they shouldn't have been offered a scholarship to begin with. 

Like Geno A says... we don't recruit or teach toughness and effort. Those are a given. 

Thanks.