rico Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Stumbled across this interesting piece concerning the catching position. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/catcher-is-baseballs-most-endangered-position/?fbclid=IwAR0lCQ0cQBdnmngLU63ju9Pe3Ab2xGNtFcZ3S7HmgsQlH0jYOrvs16M0wVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 That article, and some additional reading I did on pitch framing, made my head hurt... So, the value of a catcher is lessened because of the automatic strike zone which takes away something the pitcher shouldn't have gotten in the first place...ok then... To me, it'll also drive averages up simply because the pitcher will HAVE to throw strikes, rather than relying on an umpire who, for whatever reason (tired, flight to catch, hot, bored) stretches the strike zone. Maybe, just maybe it'll bring contact hitters, the running game, and judging a catcher by his ball blocking skills and arm back into vogue... And I'd be all for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: That article, and some additional reading I did on pitch framing, made my head hurt... So, the value of a catcher is lessened because of the automatic strike zone which takes away something the pitcher shouldn't have gotten in the first place...ok then... To me, it'll also drive averages up simply because the pitcher will HAVE to throw strikes, rather than relying on an umpire who, for whatever reason (tired, flight to catch, hot, bored) stretches the strike zone. Maybe, just maybe it'll bring contact hitters, the running game, and judging a catcher by his ball blocking skills and arm back into vogue... And I'd be all for that... Personally, I thought the article was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Can you guys do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 If you can hit and play catcher, you can hit and play first base. Not sure why someone would choose to catch unless they needed to in order to get to the big leagues.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: If you can hit and play catcher, you can hit and play first base. Not sure why someone would choose to catch unless they needed to in order to get to the big leagues.  Well they've long been called the "Tools of Ignorance" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 12 hours ago, 5fouls said: If you can hit and play catcher, you can hit and play first base. Not sure why someone would choose to catch unless they needed to in order to get to the big leagues.  Somebody has to throw the ball back to the pitcher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 Funny how catchers were so ultra-valuable before pitch framing even became a thing... Johnny Bench (the best catcher I ever saw) had a little value to him, even if he hadn't been a good hitter and a great run producer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 22 hours ago, IUFLA said: Funny how catchers were so ultra-valuable before pitch framing even became a thing... Johnny Bench (the best catcher I ever saw) had a little value to him, even if he hadn't been a good hitter and a great run producer... What would the Texas Rangers been without Jim Sundberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, rico said: What would the Texas Rangers been without Jim Sundberg? I hear you...Bob Boone didn't last 19 years in MLB because of his bat or pitch framing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I hear you...Bob Boone didn't last 19 years in MLB because of his bat or pitch framing... Don't leave out Steve Swisher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, rico said: Don't leave out Steve Swisher... I don't know about that one...I don't remember Swisher as being exceptional behind the plate...but even Johnny Bench backstop skills couldn't have covered up that bat... I thought his claim to fame was being Nick's Dad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 On 6/4/2020 at 9:59 AM, rico said: Stumbled across this interesting piece concerning the catching position. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/catcher-is-baseballs-most-endangered-position/?fbclid=IwAR0lCQ0cQBdnmngLU63ju9Pe3Ab2xGNtFcZ3S7HmgsQlH0jYOrvs16M0wVE Just got around to reading this. Maybe it's covid related but some of these articles (across all sports) recently have been very, very poorly written and the actual points are flawed. Catchers do so many things every single pitch besides....just trying to frame. Wow. Here's a few things each catcher has to do with every single pitch. Known tendencies of each hitter and each count. What he might do more often when count is 2-1 he might not do the same when it's 2-2. So catcher has to keep those in mind for 12+ guys every single game. Besides that....defensive shifts, keeping base runners close, mental coach for their pitcher.... Here's a good article on catchers I just found after reading the original link. https://sabr.org/research/catching-science-mind-behind-mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: I don't know about that one...I don't remember Swisher as being exceptional behind the plate...but even Johnny Bench backstop skills couldn't have covered up that bat... LOL, Swisher sucked...sorry, but he did.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, rico said: LOL, Swisher sucked...sorry, but he did.  The Cubs had quite the catching platoon back then...If I remember right, the other catcher was George Mitterwald... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The Cubs had quite the catching platoon back then...If I remember right, the other catcher was George Mitterwald... Yep, and he sucked too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, rico said: Yep, and he sucked too. Yep...he was a biggun too... His chest protector always looked like a dish rag sitting on a beach towel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Yep...he was a biggun too... His chest protector always looked like a dish rag sitting on a beach towel... Certainly not to be confused with 5'10 170lb Tim Blackwell. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 Or how about John Bocabella? Barry Foote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Or how about John Bocabella? Barry Foote? Yeah, the Cubbie catching situation was a hot mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 Or my favorite...Joe Kmak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 "Jody, Jody Davis, Catcher without a peer Jody, Jody Davis, Cub catcher of the year" Ah, I can hear old Harry slurring those words right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, rico said: Yeah, the Cubbie catching situation was a hot mess. After Santo.....the Cubs 3B position over the years is almost like the Bears QB position. So many players. I guess trading Bill Madlock wasn't a good move either.....and now that we have finally found a 3B we've pissed him off and he won't be a Cub in a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: "Jody, Jody Davis, Catcher without a peer Jody, Jody Davis, Cub catcher of the year" Ah, I can hear old Harry slurring those words right now... Been singing the same song once I started reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Seeking6 said: After Santo.....the Cubs 3B position over the years is almost like the Bears QB position. So many players. I guess trading Bill Madlock wasn't a good move either.....and now that we have finally found a 3B we've pissed him off and he won't be a Cub in a year or two. Ramierez was pretty good, and Cey could at least drive in some runs...but he had the range of my dishwasher... But other than that, yeah, pretty sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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