AxnJxn

2 hours ago, iuthruandthru said:

@tdhoosier with solid analysis on portal success this past year.  Not a great sign for the team IMO and as we have discussed here:

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/how-last-offseasons-most-portal-reliant-teams-fared-this-year-and-what-that-says-about-iu-basketball/

Interesting article, and appreciated. There is another way to look at this, though. Noting that a little over 19% of NCAA teams make the NCAA tournament:

- Five teams adding the most transfers, 20% made the tournament (and this sample size of 5 is nowhere near enough to draw any major conclusions in the first place). Also, as noted, 3 of the 4 that didn't make it had coaching changes, so there's that.

- 15 with 6+ transfers, 4 made the tournament: 27%

- 16 with 5+ transfers, 4 made the tournament: 25%

- 20 out of 65 total: 31% made the tournament

I'd also add that you'd need to go much deeper into the numbers than just this. Smaller conferences usually only get their auto bid into the tournament - were some of these heavy transfer teams from smaller conferences, and did they get upset in their conference tournaments? That sort of thing. 

2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

There are a lot of factors that contribute to the success of (or lack of) teams with a lot of transfers. I don't think it's impossible to build a strong 'portal team', but I don't think Woody is the coach to do it because his offense and defense has proven to be too hard to grasp for new players. 

This is a great point. Guys that have been here multiple years have looked completely lost on both ends far too often. 

8 hours ago, SawatchHoosier said:

With Sparks leaving I'm assuming that Woodson is now going to focus on playing a more modern style of basketball and Sparks wasn't in the plans for that. The issue is now we have no backup for Malik which I feel Sparks would have done well at. 

Our interior defense is pretty soft right now, too. Even if Malik manages to figure out how to not foul out every other game, he’s not a shot blocker or intimidating in any way on the defensive end, and he’s likely to be the 5.
 

We were giving up 3s left and right with a guy like Ware patrolling the paint, imagine what it’s going to be like if teams can drive the lane at will. I know people are frustrated with the offensive end, but we also took a significant step backwards on the defensive end this year, too. If the plan next year is Malik at the 5 and Mgbako at the 4 … on the defensive end, that’s not going to be pretty. 

5 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

 (Sorry i mis-read the bolded mentioning last year.  Yes we ended the year playing better.  Got spanked by Miami but that is a different thing) I don't think you can say this season has had any reasonable progression, at least in my opinion. 

I am not sold on XJ being the missing link.  Good XJ might have won us a couple games for sure, Bad XJ might have lost us a couple games also, so it could very well have been a wash.  Xavier is a head case with terrible shooting mechanics and decision making.  He is a great defender as long as he doesn't lose his cool. 

As for Trey, i just don't understand his inconsistency, although the last 4 game she has played much better both on the road and at home so i give him the respect he deserves there.

I am going to take flack for this but while we have played much better the last 4 and they should get props for winning games they should win, those team have/are not very good either. And we barely got by them. Some act like we're world beater for winning these games.  I give them the respect they deserve for winning these games, but the B1G is bad this year overall.
1. Wisc. had lost something like 6 of 8 with us in there.  They shouldn't be ranked where they are. 
2. Maryland is a train wreck. 
3. Minn. was a good road win in a tough place with a similar level of team as our, good win here. 
4. And MSU should have beat us honestly.  They aren't much better than us so it was nice to handle out business at home. 
But overall we we're not beating top of the standing in the B1G.  BUT, win the games you're supposed to win and steal a couple you aren't and that's how you have a successful season.  AND winning 4 in a row in the B1G is impressive no matter what teams you're beating.  I give credit where credit is due.

On Paper we were a top 20 team.  We should have had no problem being in the top 3 of the B1G this year.  Even without XJ, we have enough talent on this team to be in the top 50 easily without even trying.

I would agree that we haven't seen the progression expected as a team, but it has been there lately, and we've certainly seen it on an individual player basis. Ware is a first round pick now and is one of the better bigs in the game, Mgbako has showed significant improvement, and Trey (I also have no idea what's going on with his shot, and XJ isn't the only one with terrible shooting mechanics) has turned into a serious playmaker. CMW has also started using Trey in that playmaker role, and taking XJ off the ball, which seems to be working pretty well, and I thought that was a nice adjustment.

I'm certainly not saying we'd be hanging with Purdue if XJ was healthy. All we have are opinions on what could have been with him, because no one really knows. As others have noted, all teams deal with injuries, and we were clearly not prepared for it. That is absolutely on CMW.

7 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I am also not OK with the personal and petty attacks being piled on. If we look at the situation from a job/responsibility perspective though I think there are valid arguments for replacing CMW.

There are some arguments that fall under the "difference of opinion" category: substitution patterns, style of play, roster construction, etc. Let's throw those out of the conversation for now.

There are others that are (at least to me) facts that point to some level of negligence on the coach. A scholarship left open this year and 0 recruits for next year. Even when it was just 1 recruit, I still feel it was negligent. Add to this the responses given when questioned about this area and it doesn't help his case, IU legend or not.

Just the opinion of a lifelong fan (not sure if I qualify for the "real" label or not)

Just now, btownqb said:

CMW would have very much softened the blow of XJ's "injuries, immaturity, and stupidity" if he had either 1. added another play in the portal instead of leaving a scholly open 2. Told someone to take a hike and filled the scholly that way. 

He left himself up for the criticism by failing to do his job. Then he lost McNeeley. 

Yep, I agree that he has absolutely failed in that he didn't have a backup plan for a PG that has had a history of injuries and ... well, let's call them emotional transgressions, both on and off the court. I can also agree that he has been slow to adjust to things - full line change substitutions, auto benching players in foul trouble, and so forth, although I think we've seen him make those changes recently. Liam decommitting is also pretty ugly. I'm not saying that criticism of CMW's job performance this year isn't valid or uncalled for. There's nothing in my post that says it isn't. There have, however, been a number of comments, both here and elsewhere, that I think are simply uncalled for. That's all I'm addressing with respect to CMW.

I mean, to be fair, this thread was started all the way back in January, almost two months ago - I think we were 4-4 in conference at the time. IMO, that's kind of ridiculous.

A'ight, y'all talk about how we need athletic wings and we have 4 spots - who are you hoping we can get? 

On 2/25/2022 at 10:38 AM, IowaHoosierFan said:

Man from 87 to 94, what a run we had there.  How we didn't get at least 1 more in there

Well, you can thank Ted Valentine for not getting a chance to hang #6 in '92. And yeah, I'm still bitter.

23 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Geronimo.  We don't need to tip toe around it.  This should have been a breakout type of year for him.  He ended the previous year on an up note.  There were injuries that afforded playing time and he couldn't get on the court.  I think there was the expectation (hope) going into the year that he was going to be a contributor off the bench and that just didn't materialize...like at all.

I mean (and I don't think I'm alone in this), I'd be surprised if he didn't transfer. As you noted, he couldn't get on the court, even with all of the injuries, and we're likely going to bring in competition for his minutes from the portal as well.

I think there's reason to be concerned for next year, but there's also reason to be positive. Yes, there are holes, but there are also ways to fill those holes with the portal, and I believe Malik was a late recruit(?), so there might be that option as well - I'm not that familiar with how that whole process went. If XJ returns, we're in good shape at PG, and we have some decent pieces in Trey and Malik who are two somewhat malleable guys that make it easier to build a roster, and we saw some potential out of some of the others that got on the court. Also, remember that most P5 programs are going to have similar issues - in some cases, the majority of the roster could hit the portal. 

There's an opportunity to get talent in here and build a roster that can compete, maybe not for a B1G title, but a double bye in the BTT isn't unreasonable, IMO. 

31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah I mean Pete was really good and would be today, too. We just haven't seen that 28.5 PPG number from a Power 5 conference since Glenn Robinson did it 30 years ago. 

I don't think we've seen someone shoot nearly 40 times a game on average, either.

1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

He’s speculating on what the roster will look like. 

Yeah, understood - didn't realize that Geronimo wasn't on there, either. 'Course, most times I was surprised to see JG on the court at all, so there's that. I do think it's a bit odd to assume certain guys are leaving, but also get that this is a message board and speculation is a part of many discussions.

41 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Bates is not on that list.  

Ah, completely missed that (obvs). Not sure why that is, though?

If XJ can return, the backcourt is in decent shape, especially if Tamar can get his game to where it should be by now. Outside of Reneau, I haven't really seen enough of the remaining guys on the court to know what we have there, but could clearly use an experienced big and wing to start filling some holes. Is Duncomb definitely not a part of this group?

12 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I’m in my mid 30s, so probably somewhat in the middle of the board in terms of age. I can confidently say TJD is the best player I remember coming through Bloomington, and it really isn’t close.

He set a new standard for people my age and younger for what it means to be an All-Time great. There have been other greats I do remember clearly, but he tops them all.

Taking it a step further, he also set the standard for what it meant to put the work in to improve, and the standard for the type of person I think we all hope comes to IU.

I am most bummed this fun season ended because it’s the last time I will get to see number 23 wear the Cream and Crimson. If his goal was to give fans hope again after some rough days, he’s done that in spades in my book.

Well done, Trayce. 

Very well said, and thanks for expressing so well what I think almost all of us feel about TJD. It's one thing to have a guy who is a terrific basketball player. It's entirely another when that person conducts himself with class and is clearly a good person both on and off the court, who is an ambassador for the program, and who truly understands what Indiana basketball is and accepts the responsibility of getting the program back to where it should be.

TJD took on a lot of adversity in his time here, from the failures of the Archie regime, to the fallout from the coaching change, even all the way down to this year when we had that 3 game skid and it looked like things were going off the rails. He handled all of that with grace and remained respectful to those around him, which can be difficult for someone at that age.

In short, thank you for choosing IU, and allowing us to appreciate not just the player you were, but also the person. 

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Kids a 45% 3pt shooter, shooting an in rhythm wide open 3... I'll take it every possesion. 

It's a good shot, it's just kind of an awkward look for Kopp, since almost all of his outside shots are spot up attempts and this one was off the dribble and he was kind of falling forward on it. Certainly worth the risk, and I have no issue with him taking it, but missing the shot also played right into Miami's strategy to speed the game up. Certainly one of the pivotal points in the game overall.

6 minutes ago, 94Bulldog said:

21-82 his last 19 games.  13-42 from 3.  That’s essentially the non cupcake portion of the season.  The final straw for me was when Race had position on Pack (I think) in the post but had to kick it out to get back on balance and Tamar never considered throwing it back to him.  Instead he threw up an off balance runner fading away.  

Yeah, I remember that play, which is kind of a microcosm of Tamar's issues on the offensive end - too much of a shoot first mentality which leads to forcing up bad shots and missing guys who might be in better position. I don't really know what to think about him missing wide open shots, though, which also happened a couple of times in the tournament and the regular season. We've seen that the guy can shoot, which leads to the conclusion that this is in his head.

I guess we'll see if he puts in the work to improve his game and become a leader on this team, because the opportunity is right there for him.

3 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I go back and forth on the B1G. Since our last championship (MSU), the conference has had the 2nd most Final Four appearances. As a conference, 2021 and 2022 were clearly not good showings. This year the conference was down, which was evident by that 2nd place - 9th place log jam. 

So, is this ‘post COVID funk’ an outlier or a trend?

One thing that I do think is that coaches like Shrewsberry are good for the conference. PSU doesn’t only need to hold on to him for their interests, but also the conference’s interests.  

 

I don't know where to find hard numbers on this, but it seems the B1G does what it is seeded to do for the most part. This year is a good example - Purdue underperformed, MSU overperformed, and the rest pretty much did what they were seeded to do - a 4 losing to a 5 or an 8 losing to a 9 isn't exactly a major upset. 

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Jim Larranaga is a really good coach...He had them prepared for us...Fronting TJD right off the bat threw us, and Trayce didn't get his hands on the ball until the 5th or 6th possession...I love JHS, but as a freshman, his ability to see what's being presented by the other team, and adjusting HIS team was an area that needs improvement...It's the basic function of a point guard, and something Woody had XJ improving on a lot last year...

Just a couple of other thoughts...The Miller Kopp 3 off the turnover was a bad shot...If you watched him this year, he's uber effective when his feet are set and the pass is where he can catch and shoot...I know he was trying to fire us up, but...

Tamar had a rough game...He's another one that needs to put some time in on footwork and being ready to shoot when he gets it...But I think he's an important piece moving forward...

This is one of the saddest days of the year for me...The day after the final IU game of the season...I think we have a solid base to start with next year...Can't get here soon enough for me  

Agreed on all points. Tamar is going to be an interesting situation going forward. He didn't hit a shot in either game, including 0-6 from 3, and had a number of open looks that he couldn't knock down. Save for a couple of games this year, that was kind of his deal all season - either missing open looks or taking bad shots - and he's way too talented to be playing this poorly, particularly in his second season. His D did seem to improve a bit, but he's got to be a lot better on the offensive end. Feels like it's TBD if that's going to be in an IU uniform, though.

If and buts and all that, but would have been interesting to see this group with Armaan Franklin still in the mix. To be fair, if XJ doesn't get hurt, JHS is playing more of that wing role that can create and put pressure on the D that we were sorely missing this year.

Obviously a disappointing end, especially when it feels like you got outhustled, particularly on the defensive end with respect to rebounding. It also seemed like we weren’t staying grounded on defense, where shot fakes had us out of position most of the night. Weird. Wonder if that was something they saw on the scouting report?

 As for Kopp’s shot, i didn’t mind the shot itself, but it didn’t look fundamentally sound - he kind of jumped forward into it, which isn’t really his normal shooting motion. That shot doesn’t make the top 5 of worst shots of the night, though. 
 

Have to be excited with where the program is now, after two seasons of checking off milestones. We’re losing a lot, but with the transfer portal, that can be fixed rapidly instead of waiting for recruits to mature. Bummer of a loss, but feel pretty positive for the future. 

Not just the loss, but the way they lost, with guys like Mason Gillis clearly being afraid to shoot … couldn’t have written a better script. 

I'm happy with where this program is right now, and I think this year was a success overall to this point, especially considering the injuries. That being said, we're seeded to go to the S16, and if we lose before that with the talent and experience we have going in, that's simply going to be a pretty big disappointment that will tarnish the season a bit IMO.

Don’t care. Meaningless conference tournament game.  There are no surprises left, and this team is what it is at this point in the season. Anything from a first round exit to a title is realistic. Let’s get it started. 

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Which is why I'm not sure putting together a roster of Portal transfers is the way I'd want IU and Coach Woodson to go...

I mean for a player of a specific need? Sure...But I've seen talk on here about a massive roster overhaul through portal transfers...And I'm not sure that's the formula for success...

Here are the Big 10 transfer rankings coming into this year

Those bottom 5 did pretty well with the talent they had...I know Purdue had Jenkins, who was a decent role player, Iowa has Rebraca, who in his second year in Iowa City has developed into what Robbie Hummel called "a really good 2nd tier Big 10 big man" and we have Kopp and XJ both in their second years, but I think when you start bringing in kids, paricularly 3rd and 4th year kids who've experienced success at their previous schools, like Mayer and Shannon, it's a difficult thing to piece them together with the established players you already have...

I much prefer building through recruiting and developing the players we have...Grow your own so to speak  

Not saying eschew it completely, but don't establish it as your culture or plan on building a roster around it every year...

 

That's probably my biggest concern with next year. I'm not sure we have much of a choice but to hit the portal a bit with everything we're losing, since we're not bringing in enough bodies to replace them, but I think there's still value in building rosters with guys who will be in your system for multiple years if possible. It'll certainly be interesting to see how the ease of transferring will change the game in the next few years.

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Before I'd pass to him, I'd run by with one of these and take his temperature  

I mean, you're likely not getting the ball back if you pass it to him, so I can understand the reluctance. Definitely agree that there seems to be some chemistry issues with that team. Mayer's air ball on the 3 yesterday near the end of the game was the definition of someone playing hero ball.