AxnJxn

30 minutes ago, rico said:

For your reading enjoyment:

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-basketball/purdues-win-over-illinois-invites-more-questions-than-answers

I don't think this is too complicated, as we've seen it all year - their backcourt is going to kill them in the tournament. Houston would eat their guards alive, as would a number of other teams with experience and toughness in the backcourt. They'll likely get to the S16 with that high seed, but I don't see them going much further.

Illinois is a very interesting team to watch. Hawkins is kind of a jigsaw puzzle that fits in a number of places (he was bringing the ball up to start the offense yesterday while guarding Edey on the defensive end), Shannon is a terrific talent, and Mayer is ... well, I think he's kind of a chucker, but he can catch fire pretty quickly. Not sure I see them going all that far in the tournament, but that's an interesting roster build.

It's a bit odd that there are people questioning the heart of this team after coming back to win this game, and is something like 6-3 in games decided by 6 points or less (I eyeballed that stat, so don't kill me if it's a bit off). It's even odder when you consider that one of the comparison points - the McCaffrey clan (really?) - comes on a day when they lost at home to Nebraska. 

This team is what it is at this point. I think we all know they could fall flat on their face any time on the court, but that can happen to pretty much any team in the tournament. Look at some of the top line seeds - Purdue got smoked at Maryland, Alabama lost by 24 at Oklahoma, Kansas by 16 at Baylor, Baylor by 15 at home against Iowa State, and so on. This team could also go on a run to the FF - that is something that is certainly in play, depending on seeding/draw and if they can get consistent at the right time.

5 hours ago, Kdug said:

IMO it makes 0 sense to talk about next year's team when this season is still going on, and we have no idea what the roster will even look like. Last year's Illinois team would be a good comp to this year's IU team. They were a 4 seed who lost their entire starting 5. This year's Illinois team is currently projected as an 8 seed, and of their 5 best players only 1 was even on the roster last March.

Roster building is way different than it was even 5 years ago. You can add serious impact players through the transfer portal, or even add impact freshman after coaches are fired at the end of the year. It's probably safe to say IU won't be a national title contender next year, but that doesn't mean they can't field a solid team.

1. I think it makes zero sense to respond to a post about next year’s team saying that it makes zero sense to talk about next year’s team.

2. We do have some ideas of what the roster will look like. It won’t have 4 guys who have been in Woody’s system, and it won’t have one of the best freshmen in the country this year. We also know who could potentially return, and what those players have shown us to this point, which isn’t much outside of Trey. 
 

3. I never said anything about not being competitive next year, just noting that there are good reasons to be concerned. Most of the teams in the B1G are going to be returning at least some of their starting 5, and other guys that are familiar with their individual systems and whatnot. 
 

4. i think most people on here know the game has changed in a number of ways with respect to roster building. 

18 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Not me. I don't want to look too far ahead but a bit concerned about next season.

With good reason.

- We're losing our entire preseason starting 5.

- Outside of Galloway, our non-freshman returning players are doing nothing ... remember late last year and before the season started this year, when we were talking about Geronimo taking minutes from Race, or finding a way to get him more time? I've honestly forgotten about him, because I rarely see him unless he's standing on the sidelines. Bates has been pretty terrible since mid January. Leal rarely gets on the court. Duncomb? And so forth.

- Our best returning ball handler is ... Trey Galloway. Now, I think Trey is a terrific player, but I don't think that's an ideal situation.

- I'm not all that familiar with recruiting overall, and completely understand that rankings aren't everything, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of IU commits on that top 100 list.

- Odds are we're going to lose at least 1 of those returning guys to the portal. 

- Woody's going to have to hit the portal hard, and we're going to have a group of guys who have never stepped on the court with each other, and all the trials and tribulations that come along with that.

In short, buckle up, because it could get bumpy very, very soon.

Here's what I don't get. Murray starts the game with a 3 that hits nothing but net. Soon after, does it again. Fool me once and all that, but hey, he does it a third, fourth, and fifth time. Ok, the guy's really good, so I guess it's one of those nights.

However! Back door cut, easy layup. Soon after, back door cut, easy layup. And again. And again. I mean, are these guys paying attention to anything happening on the court?

I think that's what annoyed me the most, was watching the same mistakes over and over and over again. We just looked, well frankly, kinda stupid out there, and that's never a good look. And of all the teams, I think I'd take a 20 point loss to Purdue over losing to that group of people at Iowa. Ok, that might be a bit much, but they're firmly in second place for teams I hate losing to.

As for XJ, the whole "we would have beaten _____ if we had XJ" is getting pretty old. If we're going to play that game, you could also say that if XJ doesn't get hurt, maybe he gets knocked off balance in a game and tumbles into TJD's knee and blows it out. As Norman Dale once said, "My team's on the court." 

Let's face facts - this team has the potential to make a big run to a FF in March, and they could also lose all of their remaining games. None of us have any idea what's going to happen on a game by game basis going forward, and it sure seems like the team doesn't, either. Not really an idea spot to be in on March 1. But, it does seem that this team does have the ability to have a short memory when it comes to these things, so I guess that's something.

W.T.F.

/end of game analysis 

1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

This IMO makes it very unlikely we can win six in a row in the tournament. Somebody will get hot and shoot/make a high volume of threes against us. And while we might dominate the paint, we won’t be able to keep up. 

Conversely, maybe we're just waiting for the NCAAT to unleash the power of the KILLER MOPP, with the two of them raining threes like hellfire all the way to the FF.

Someone really needs to photoshop Trey's hair on Miller's head, and this meme will write itself.

26 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

In a way it’s sad that we are rooting for teams to lose so we can earn🤔 a double bye. But at least we’re not doing it in hopes of becoming a bubble team!!!

Agreed, but it's also a nice change from rooting for teams to lose so that we're not playing on the first night, or to get on the bubble for the NCAAT.

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Someone said in the game thread that they will be happy when we don't play on ESPN anymore.  I agree and it is because of stuff like last night.  ESPN has to "Olympics" so many of the games they show.  Spartan Strong every commercial last night, Edey's Mom, Davidson's girlfriend who happens to be a former IUWBB player....and if it isn't pushing that, it is pushing some other narrative they want to shove down your throat.  (Duke/UNC being a favorite of mine).

I don't usually have a problem with announcers, but the guy doing the PBP last night was terrible. Sounds like he's auditioning to be a 1970s classic rock DJ, "Xavier Jones," said some off the wall sort of stuff here and there, and got overly excited about the weirdest things. 

10 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Anyone besides me wish Race wouldn't have passed on shooting the open 3's he had at least 3 different times? He looked like he was over thinking about them each time, but passed. We just needed 1 or 2 more of those to go down and that may have completely opened up the game.......

There was a time when I wanted him to take those, but I'm ok with him not shooting them any more. I posted stats on him a week or two ago, and he was something like 3 of his last 28 or something like that, and it's clearly in his head now - that was pretty obvious last night when he thought about it multiple times, hesitated, and all that. You're not making that shot if you have to think about it that much.

Same reason I don't want Miller posting up - we have multiple guys that are better at shooting 3s, we just need to do a better job at getting them open looks.

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

 

Yep. Conference tournaments are going to shake up a lot of those current teams hanging around the 4 seed quite a bit. 

Meh. Not overly concerned with a loss here, as there was a lot of emotion going on, so tough environment. However, I will say that this team is starting to remind me of some of those Crean teams that would run out of gas in the second half of the season. That being said, I'm not sure there's much Woody can do with the (lack of) bench production we're getting. I'm also not overly concerned with our seeding for the tournaments coming up. Hold serve at home, and we should get a double bye in the BTT and be in the 4-6 range in the NCAA. If we're seeing this kind of effort in those last two homes games, time for some alarm bells to be going off.

I'd also say that I'm happy for the MSU students. College is a place for inclusivity, for coming together and meeting new people and cultures, and what happened to them is going to have a ripple effect in some negative ways with respect to that, so it was good to see those kids have something positive to enjoy for a night.

4 hours ago, Euroclydon said:

I've  given Tamar a hard time this season when it is deserved. Sadly, that's more often than anyone would like but the stats and what we see in-game do not lie.

He's scored a total four points in the past three games (all against Illinois). Hasn't scored in double digits since the first MSU game on 1/22 (adding three total steals and hitting three total threes since that same time) while still getting decent minutes in spite of it. He's a virtual no show in every road game and unpredictable at home.

A guy who has played 59 official games at IU should be further along. His best skills appear to be the spot up jumper from three and scoring in transition. He's not a great ball handler, passer, and for his size doesn't rebound at a high rate (spectator when shots go up). His shot selection is at best suspect. He's a decent, at times, defender but not a lock down defender, and he frequently gets lost. For a guy 6'5 190 you don't see him taking advantage of smaller defenders or going by bigger defenders.  Where does that leave Tamar?

At this point, he has to figure out what he can do to help this team win down the stretch. It is unlikely we will see drastic improvements in his basketball skills this season. That will need to be done in the offseason. Still, he can make better decisions on offense and give more effort on defense. If all you get out of him is a reliable spot up jumper, getting out in transition, AND becoming more of an impact player on defense, it would help this team. 

The hardest thing about criticizing Tamar is everyone wants him to succeed. Everyone likes him and you want to believe he has the talent to be so much better. It starts with being a smarter basketball player and not trying to force things to happen. 

To be fair we can say similar things about Jordan and the reality is Logan should have been able to contribute by this point in his career. It is unfortunate but X and Race's injuries ended up highlighting the flaws in others. The good news is each of them has enough talent to become what IU needs. The bad news is, IU doesn't have time to wait on them this season.

Really good post here. My biggest problem with Tamar is the things you've said in bold above - he should simply have a higher basketball IQ at this point in his career than he actually does, and it's kind of hard to watch sometimes. I can't remember which game it was (NW, maybe?) where he took a terrible shot, and Hummel said something like "that better go in" because it was such a bad decision, on top of a couple of other mistakes Tamar had already made. In short, there are too many games where he has played like a freshman with respect to his decision making, and he's pretty close to being a complete liability on the road.

OTOH, we've seen flashes of his talent, and there's a really good to great player in there, particularly with respect to his offensive abilities. Every time he checks in, I wonder if this is the game where it starts to click for him. 

All that being said, I couldn't imagine having a kid in college on top of playing basketball at IU and all that goes along with that. Maybe he can get some NIL money from Pampers or something (I have no idea how long kids wear diapers).

2 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

This one was a little close. We grabbed the board with 50 seconds left, so we have time for two 10 second possessions.That's tight.

53 seconds. Push the ball, take a TO, and you’ve got 15-18 seconds to get a shot up. 

I wish i knew why more teams don’t take advantage of 2 for 1 opportunities at the end of halfs. Perfect opportunity here. 

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

This thread is completely derailed. You guys want to talk about 1 and 1s.... tag me in another thread. 

Sorry to all. I should have known the possibility of trying something different wasn't going to go over well with a few. 

I mean, it's a natural conversation, you've all made good points on both sides, and can't speak for others but I've enjoyed reading the responses and discussion.

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

If your point is no one knows that’s fine, but then you’re also arguing that your entire point is wrong… because you don’t know.

Regarding Scrotum, I’m inclined to think someone that manages to get fired as a cop lacks the ability to properly adjudicate many situations. Given what we can see from the two camera angles and the general reaction from our team, combined with Hummel’s laughter hearing the ridiculous explanation, the most reasonable explanation is it was poor officiating. 

Yah, I took your point, and I didn't word my response very well - what I was trying to say was that I was wrong to blame the bench when I don't know, and none of us know, what the tech was actually for. 

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

No, I think what gives is that Big Ten Officials are straight trash, and the way the conference promotes and allows the garbage officiating is straight trash. 

I wasn't saying the refs are somehow trying to get NW to win. They just for some inexplicable reason allowed NW to play a style in the first half that promoted and allowed extremely physical play. I don't know why, but I know it happened and it directly contributed (not the only reason) to our poor play in the first half. 

Fair enough. I'll just say that I wouldn't expect things to change, since it's been going on for decades now. See Ted Valentine and others. I'm also not sure it's just the B1G - I watched the Xavier/Marquette game before ours, and it was even more physical and loosely called, and seemed to be favorable to Marquette overall. References to the old Big East "no blood, no foul" were made multiple times in the broadcast.

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'll just continue to maintain that the poor officiating wasn't necessarily about any one particular call or missed call. 

We played terrible in the first half, but a large part of that bad play was due to how physical the officials let NW play in the first half. They were allowed to body on the perimeter, hand check, grab, slap and reach on their digs and doubles, etc., etc.

The officials set a tone for the game in the first half that favored one team. 

Let me take this in another direction. Different officiating crew, same complaints from Purdue fans about the officials in the NU/PU game, yes? So, what gives? Is NU now the Duke of the B1G?

Just now, 02Hoosier said:

Ok this conversation is going nowhere lol. You disagree with the majority of the people here on this situation and that’s okay, no hard feelings. I respect the logical reasoning and being able to not let the emotions of the game affect your reasoning, by the way. We just happen to disagree about how much the officials impacted the game. Hopefully the game Saturday has a better outcome.

Totally on board with this, and I appreciate the respectful discourse from you and others. I do agree with some things said about the officiating last night, just not all of it, but such is life.  As Belichick would say, on to Illinois ...

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

No one knows lol.. that is the issue!! 

Larry couldn't even man up and tell Woodson why he called the technical, then flails his arm in Woodsons face and calls another tech on Woodson. It was like a f'ing comedy skit. 

That IS the issue. I'm glad you finally admitted it. Maybe some others can take the hint.

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

The only one? Yeah, that's just not true. 

CMW, A Hill, the rest of our assts, our entire bench. They all know what was said and not said. 

No, the ref is the only one that truly knows why he called that. It’s possible he had a grudge from Miller Kopp transferring. Maybe he doesn’t like the trident logo. Maybe he misheard something someone said from the bench. Or, maybe someone said something or did something that was worthy of a tech None of us know.

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I have no problem admitting we played really poorly in the first half, and even some really bad moments in the second half too.

Northwestern, similarly, had lots of moments of poor play. 

I fundamentally disagree with you on the techs. You're just looking at the outcome and blaming IU (we got called for techs), and that is simply not right. It was bad officiating, don't blame the victims for it. 

 Ok, then you must know exactly why the ref called the tech. Please share with the rest of us.
 

And yeah, I’ll admit to putting some blame on the bench, because this isn’t the first time. So, point taken there.

1 minute ago, 02Hoosier said:

You didn’t, but I never said you did either. However, it seems that your position is trying to be a contrarian on this situation. My response is just a general statement to your position. 

So instead of strawman stuff, now I’m just being contrarian? It’s not possible to have an opinion that goes against the 2% around here? Even with all of the attempted explanations, not one single person knows exactly what was said, or done, to cause the T. The only person that truly knows that is the ref. Any of you talk to him? I didn’t think so.
 

If that’s being “contrarian,” I’m pretty sure I don’t want any of you on a jury trial that I am involved in.