Morgan withdraws from NBA draft

[BobSaccamanno]

I’ve said many times, sometimes this board turns into a tavern where a debate kicks in over brewskis.  But, I’d never, ever have predicted a Damon Bailey vs Denny Rodman debate. That’s as random as it gets.    Lol.  It’s part of what makes the site great. 

[rico]

4 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Also just because Rodman played solid defense doesn't mean he wasn't a rebounding specialist.  Most rebounders play solid defense.  When anybody thinks of Rodman they think of his rebounding ability, so if he isn't a rebounding specialist then those don't exist at all.

Rodman was a product of his environment.  He landed on a team that taught him his "trade".  The Pistons front line played "thug ball".  And they were dang good at it.  Dennis learned from the best.  He cultivated his persona......he was great at PR stuff.  JMHO, had it not been for Rodman playing on Championship teams, we would brush him aside.

[CapnRon]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

Rodman was a product of his environment.  He landed on a team that taught him his "trade".  The Pistons front line played "thug ball".  And they were dang good at it.  Dennis learned from the best.  He cultivated his persona......he was great at PR stuff.  JMHO, had it not been for Rodman playing on Championship teams, we would brush him aside.

And probably a product of cocaine lol

[KoB2011]

11 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Also just because Rodman played solid defense doesn't mean he wasn't a rebounding specialist.  Most rebounders play solid defense.  When anybody thinks of Rodman they think of his rebounding ability, so if he isn't a rebounding specialist then those don't exist at all.

Then Klay Thompson is just a shooter. 

[CapnRon]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Then Klay Thompson is just a shooter. 

I would agree with that statement.

[BGleas]

27 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

Also just because Rodman played solid defense doesn't mean he wasn't a rebounding specialist.  Most rebounders play solid defense.  When anybody thinks of Rodman they think of his rebounding ability, so if he isn't a rebounding specialist then those don't exist at all.

He didn’t play “solid” defense though, much as he was an elite rebounder he was also an elite defender. 

[CapnRon]

14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He didn’t play “solid” defense though, much as he was an elite rebounder he was also an elite defender. 

I love how people pick out one word they don't like from your post and make it an issue.  So we are saying a player isn't a "specialist" because he has 2 "solid" attributes instead of just one?  I completely disagree, and feel like it is excessively pointless to debate this, when you understand the overall point I am trying to make.

I am still waiting for the comparison for the OG/Morgan debate that actually makes some sense.  Has anybody thought of one yet?

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, CapnRon said:

I love how people pick out one word they don't like from your post and make it an issue.  So we are saying a player isn't a "specialist" because he has 2 "solid" attributes instead of just one?  I completely disagree, and feel like it is excessively pointless to debate this, when you understand the overall point I am trying to make.

I am still waiting for the comparison for the OG/Morgan debate that actually makes some sense.  Has anybody thought of one yet?

Again though, he wasn’t solid at rebounding and defense, he was HOF elite at those two things. Specialist kind of implies you have one elite skill, Rodman had at least two and was also an excellent athlete and had a really, really high b-ball IQ. 

I haven’t had time yet to think (running to soccer games, Mothers Day shopping with the kids, etc.) on a good OG/Morgan comparison, but will get back to you if I come up with one. Maybe someone else has one? 

[Hoosierhoopster]

^^The problem is they play different positions and are simply different kinds of players. Morgan is not a 3 and D player. He's a very good forward in his own right, but hard to compare directly to OG other than assessing who we think is/was a better all-around player.

[5fouls]

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

So you're saying Tom Crean would have utilized him better than Knight?

No. I am saying tnat was a hell of a team he played on.  Many of our recent teams have been hell, just not in the same context.

[CapnRon]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Again though, he wasn’t solid at rebounding and defense, he was HOF elite at those two things. Specialist kind of implies you have one elite skill, Rodman had at least two and was also an excellent athlete and had a really, really high b-ball IQ. 

I haven’t had time yet to think (running to soccer games, Mothers Day shopping with the kids, etc.) on a good OG/Morgan comparison, but will get back to you if I come up with one. Maybe someone else has one? 

I don't watch nba enough now to come up with a solid one either.  Just Pacers on occasion, and all of Pacer's playoffs.  NBA is too biased for me.

[ADegenerate]

8 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

And they weren’t really that good that year.  Honestly, this is the first time I’ve really looked into Bailey’s career.  I thought he was better the way people talk about him.

I was like 8 at the time when he played. He was supposed to be a god to me but I never saw it watching him play. In fact I barely remember him at all. Chaeney, Evans, Henderson, and even Greg Graham were better players to young me.

they were really good that year, the last great IU team actually...

[Guest]

Damon Bailey was not even close to the best player on the IU teams he played on. Not even close. Unfortunately, the expectations that came with his recruitment suggested that he was going to be a multiple time All-American. My personal opinion is that Damon never met his potential because he couldn't meet the hype that surrounded him-going back to at least the 8th grade. At a time when recruiting kids that young was unheard of.

Damon could do things on the floor that Rodman could only dream of. But Rodman excelled at the highest level of basketball competition, which Bailey could not. Rodman found his niche, and was fortunate to play for teams where he was a complimentary player. He did not have the pressure of being " the man." Bailey was expected to be that, and when he discovered that his game wouldn't translate to that at the college level, I think he was affected from a confidence standpoint, and never really got over it. I think playing for Knight didn't help that either.

Frankly, I don't really care that Rodman was a better pro. I am proud of who Damon was and is, and how he comported himself while at IU. No way would I have wanted Rodman representing the pinstripes. And, as this is an IU basketball forum, that's all that really matters to me.

[rico]

11 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergaard said:

Damon Bailey was not even close to the best player on the IU teams he played on. Not even close. Unfortunately, the expectations that came with his recruitment suggested that he was going to be a multiple time All-American. My personal opinion is that Damon never met his potential because he couldn't meet the hype that surrounded him-going back to at least the 8th grade. At a time when recruiting kids that young was unheard of.

Damon could do things on the floor that Rodman could only dream of. But Rodman excelled at the highest level of basketball competition, which Bailey could not. Rodman found his niche, and was fortunate to play for teams where he was a complimentary player. He did not have the pressure of being " the man." Bailey was expected to be that, and when he discovered that his game wouldn't translate to that at the college level, I think he was affected from a confidence standpoint, and never really got over it. I think playing for Knight didn't help that either.

Frankly, I don't really care that Rodman was a better pro. I am proud of who Damon was and is, and how he comported himself while at IU. No way would I have wanted Rodman representing the pinstripes. And, as this is an IU basketball forum, that's all that really matters to me.

I liked your post.  But I will disagree on one thing.......Bailey was the best player his senior year.  As far as Damon's career at IU......I would take one like his any day, any year from anybody wearing the candy stripes.  

[IU Scott]

47 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

I was like 8 at the time when he played. He was supposed to be a god to me but I never saw it watching him play. In fact I barely remember him at all. Chaeney, Evans, Henderson, and even Greg Graham were better players to young me.

they were really good that year, the last great IU team actually...

I wish people who did not see him play or remember anything about bailey would stop trying to make judgements on him.  You cant make judgements just on what you read or look at stats.  He was on a very loaded team his first 3 years and was not the main scoring threat on that team.  Saying that he was still in the top 10 on IU's scoring list so to me that is a very good career.  His senior year he averaged over 22 points per game and got them to the sweet 16.

[ADegenerate]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

I liked your post.  But I will disagree on one thing.......Bailey was the best player his senior year.  As far as Damon's career at IU......I would take one like his any day, any year from anybody wearing the candy stripes.  

I would too. I think the point is that his legend doesn’t matches the output though. I don’t have a single issue with Damon btw. I was a little too young but I never saw this legend playing like he was talked about being. I did meet him at an autograph session as a child and he was a nice guy. Not a lot of people at the event which made it pretty awkward but 🤷🏼‍♂️.

[ADegenerate]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I wish people who did not see him play or remember anything about bailey would stop trying to make judgements on him.  You cant make judgements just on what you read or look at stats.  He was on a very loaded team his first 3 years and was not the main scoring threat on that team.  Saying that he was still in the top 10 on IU's scoring list so to me that is a very good career.  His senior year he averaged over 22 points per game and got them to the sweet 16.

I never even factored in his stats. That era is the first era that’s still memorable so I think it’s fair play that I can comment as someone who was around when he played and remembers it. I’m pretty sure I’ve that right. I didn’t even judge him. I actually don’t have an opinion of him, all I stated was facts.

[loviubb]

Regarding Damons career  didn't he have issuses  with his knees. I still thought he had a great career as has been pointed out on a loaded team,

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, ADegenerate said:

I never even factored in his stats. That era is the first era that’s still memorable so I think it’s fair play that I can comment as someone who was around when he played and remembers it. I’m pretty sure I’ve that right. I didn’t even judge him. I actually don’t have an opinion of him, all I stated was facts.

It is funny everybody talks about how great Victor was at IU and that Bailey was not that great but looking at the stats Bailey was a lot better.  Bailey is the 8th all time leading scorer in the proud history of IU basketball with over 1700 points.  He was on teams that made 4 sweet 16's and elite 8 and a final four.  His senior year he was the leading scorer for IU and I think the big ten so how was that a disappointing career.  You said you was 8 years old when Bailey played so how much do you really remember from that time.  I was 6 years old in 76 and I remember a few things from that team but I could not really tell you a lot about that season.

[rico]

27 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It is funny everybody talks about how great Victor was at IU and that Bailey was not that great but looking at the stats Bailey was a lot better.  Bailey is the 8th all time leading scorer in the proud history of IU basketball with over 1700 points.  He was on teams that made 4 sweet 16's and elite 8 and a final four.  His senior year he was the leading scorer for IU and I think the big ten so how was that a disappointing career.  You said you was 8 years old when Bailey played so how much do you really remember from that time.  I was 6 years old in 76 and I remember a few things from that team but I could not really tell you a lot about that season.

That be 4 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, and 1 FF.  To my knowledge, the best 4 year tournament run in IU history.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, rico said:

That be 4 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, and 1 FF.  To my knowledge, the best 4 year tournament run in IU history.

Right about the EE, my bad because I just did not count the year we went to the final four.

[rico]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Right about the EE, my bad because I just did not count the year we went to the final four.

I know, I was just making sure everybody else did!!!!!!!!

[ADegenerate]

57 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It is funny everybody talks about how great Victor was at IU and that Bailey was not that great but looking at the stats Bailey was a lot better.  Bailey is the 8th all time leading scorer in the proud history of IU basketball with over 1700 points.  He was on teams that made 4 sweet 16's and elite 8 and a final four.  His senior year he was the leading scorer for IU and I think the big ten so how was that a disappointing career.  You said you was 8 years old when Bailey played so how much do you really remember from that time.  I was 6 years old in 76 and I remember a few things from that team but I could not really tell you a lot about that season.

I don’t know what to say. That 92-93 squad was the best squad I’ve ever seen. Chaneney was the best player and I remember liking Greg Graham and Brian Evans the most because they always seemed to add value when you didn’t expect it. Still don’t remember Bailey. Just me though.

[5fouls]

Cheaney was better than Damon.  Henderson is debatable.  Graham and Evans were not.  He made his teammates better than they were.  Damon just had bsd knees that prevented him from playing after IU.  

[Cutter]

You are right on his knees could have had them fixed between his freshman and sophomore years but he chose not to because he couldn't stand the idea of playing that extra year for Knight. Pretty much destroyed his knees and NBA Dreams by not having them fixed although the pacers did draft him in the second round I believe