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Trey Kaufman Commits to Purdue


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43 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Or maybe like me he stays logged in and leaves the page accessible to come back to. He is a good member...I enjoy his opinions...don’t always agree but it’s a different persoective that allows for more interesting convos.

Its also kinda creepy you stalking him.

Gee you’re right I probably shouldn’t give him any shit haha. Jokes... learn to take them

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Talked to Trey on Saturday.  He is thinking through some pretty unique stuff in what has been a frustrating summer. I've said for months that I like where IU is here, and I feel even more confide

The IU staff is really confident. And that’s not a guess. 

There is one central figure in this recruitment that is causing Nick to overreact here, and also causing the 247 guys to misreport that there is some kind of tension between Lander and Kaufman.  IU is

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Just now, CrimsonV said:

Gee you’re right I probably shouldn’t give him any shit haha. Jokes... learn to take them

You got me. Sorry my sarcasm meter must have been broken. A few people were giving him a hard time (not joking) the other day. Just defending the guy. I did like the gif!! One of the many reasons I love this board is all the gifs people post. You guys are hilarious! Carry on!

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I probably should post this in a different thread because it's not specific to Trey Kauffman, this is a general point that potentially applies to Kauffman, but I'm so sick of these clearly 4 position players being sold by people that they need to play the 2/3  in college for the NBA. That's just so wrong IMO and actually hinders their chances of making the NBA.

The NBA is going smaller, not taller. In the NBA 2's/3's are playing the 4. 3's and 4's are often times playing the 5. The NBA is not looking for 4's to play shooting guard. They're looking for guys like Kauffman and Justin Smith to show they can play the 4/5 with perimeter skills.

Take Justin Smith for example, yes he needs to show perimeter skills. He needs to show he can knock down spot up 3's and show the ability to attack off the dribble against bigger defenders, but his best chance to shine in that role at the college level is by playing the 4 so he's matched up against bigger guys and can exploit his athleticism, and knock down open 3's off flaring when he sets ball screens.

Nearly every college offense is the same in 2020, in nearly every college offense, including IU's, the 4 spends plenty of time on the perimeter. The 4's are setting ball screens for the perimeter players and then flaring to the wing, corner or top of the key. Smith, Kauffman, TJD, etc. just need to show they can consistently hit those open, pick and pop 3's. They don't need to play the 2/3 and try to show they're guards and offense creators.

IMO it's bad advice. Justin Smith's best chance to make the NBA IMO was to play the 4 next to a guy like TJD, and show he can hit open 3's off the pick and roll, take bigger defenders off the dribble after the pick and roll, and to show he can defend bigger guys if asked to play the 4/5 in the NBA.

Same for Kauffman. 

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4 minutes ago, rico said:

Always remember fellas...Trey's decision/decisions shouldn't affect your quality of life.  

Yep...don’t for sure. Hopefully it doesn’t effect the quality of IU basketball...I hope Archie pulls out a win out of all this. Feels like 21 class is hitting the 2 min warning and we have the ball on our own 10...needing to drive 90 yds to tie the game. Fortunately for us we basically just saw IU do that against PSU and win!

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8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I probably should post this in a different thread because it's not specific to Trey Kauffman, this is a general point that potentially applies to Kauffman, but I'm so sick of these clearly 4 position players being sold by people that they need to play the 2/3  in college for the NBA. That's just so wrong IMO and actually hinders their chances of making the NBA.

The NBA is going smaller, not taller. In the NBA 2's/3's are playing the 4. 3's and 4's are often times playing the 5. The NBA is not looking for 4's to play shooting guard. They're looking for guys like Kauffman and Justin Smith to show they can play the 4/5 with perimeter skills.

Take Justin Smith for example, yes he needs to show perimeter skills. He needs to show he can knock down spot up 3's and show the ability to attack off the dribble against bigger defenders, but his best chance to shine in that role at the college level is by playing the 4 so he's matched up against bigger guys and can exploit his athleticism, and knock down open 3's off flaring when he sets ball screens.

Nearly every college offense is the same in 2020, in nearly every college offense, including IU's, the 4 spends plenty of time on the perimeter. The 4's are setting ball screens for the perimeter players and then flaring to the wing, corner or top of the key. Smith, Kauffman, TJD, etc. just need to show they can consistently hit those open, pick and pop 3's. They don't need to play the 2/3 and try to show they're guards and offense creators.

IMO it's bad advice. Justin Smith's best chance to make the NBA IMO was to play the 4 next to a guy like TJD, and show he can hit open 3's off the pick and roll, take bigger defenders off the dribble after the pick and roll, and to show he can defend bigger guys if asked to play the 4/5 in the NBA.

Same for Kauffman. 

Can’t like this enough. If you are a Draymond and can play point forward that is awesome! But mostly they want 4s that can stretch the floor. You don’t have to do that like you said by playing the 2 or 3 in college. You just have to prove you hace lateral quickness to defend ball screens, keep your man in front of you, and most importantly knock down open shots out to the 3pt line. Trey will struggle against quicker athletic 3s and teams that deploy a 3 guard lineup. He will end up playing the 4 (where he belongs all along) or get exploited. It’s about your skill set not your position. Like you said the 4 spends a ton of time on the perimeter as much as any wing in our offense. It’s why Justin’s lack of skills out there hurt our ball movement and flow so much. Trey playing the 4 would have no influence on his NBA chances.

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46 minutes ago, Indykev said:

He couldn't let anyone go at the time due to the APR or whatever the grade thing is called. Crean had so much turnover, not only did he leave the talent bare, Crean also left the next coach with little to no room to make changes. Then you have IU's transfer rules that are like no other, its hard for a coach to bring in players. With the new NCAA transfer rule starting, i hope IU changes their rules or we are screwed there to.

Yeah, that could be...I don't know how much IU would have been penalized if the 3 incoming freshmen CAM's first year (Smith, Durham, Moore) would have reopened their recruitments. Did all 3 of them already have a signed NLI? I don't remember and I don't recall how that affects the APR either.

Durham has been a good player, and hasn't been a problem.

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Can’t like this enough. If you are a Draymond and can play point forward that is awesome! But mostly they want 4s that can stretch the floor. You don’t have to do that like you said by playing the 2 or 3 in college. You just have to prove you hace lateral quickness to defend ball screens, keep your man in front of you, and most importantly knock down open shots out to the 3pt line. Trey will struggle against quicker athletic 3s and teams that deploy a 3 guard lineup. He will end up playing the 4 (where he belongs all along) or get exploited. It’s about your skill set not your position. Like you said the 4 spends a ton of time on the perimeter as much as any wing in our offense. It’s why Justin’s lack of skills out there hurt our ball movement and flow so much. Trey playing the 4 would have no influence on his NBA chances.

It is also what should make Thompson and Hunter so important to next year.  The other issue we have had with our offense is spacing IMO.  The other team would sag off of a guy like Smith which takes away one of Jackson-Davis's strengths. If we play a 3 guard lineup with Brunk/TJD at center, we need guys like Race and Jerome to not only be able to guard a 4, but also be a threat to hit that outside shot so defenses cannot cheat on TJD so much.

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34 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It is also what should make Thompson and Hunter so important to next year.  The other issue we have had with our offense is spacing IMO.  The other team would sag off of a guy like Smith which takes away one of Jackson-Davis's strengths. If we play a 3 guard lineup with Brunk/TJD at center, we need guys like Race and Jerome to not only be able to guard a 4, but also be a threat to hit that outside shot so defenses cannot cheat on TJD so much.

I know Hunter will be able to make 3s at a good enough clip to make defenses come out. Race I’ve heard he can knock down they shot...I have yet to witness the touch from him. Hope it develops!

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2 hours ago, Muddy River said:

I know everyone says Trey is a good kid and all, and my heart says I should believe 5fouls due to his proximity to the situation, but my head looks at the evidence, and there are a lot of bad optics here.  

  • Trey won't play with Furst
  • Trey won't play with Lander (Maybe that was true)
  • All of our insiders feeling strong.  Assuming the staff feels strong.  Where were those feelings coming from?  Who led them in that direction?
  • Saying that you've been committed for two weeks and still having other schools use time and resources to recruit you?
  • Leaking the info early then trying to deny it's accuracy, and shaming others in the process?
  • Committing to Archie's biggest rival on his birthday?  That just smacks of mean spiritedness.

Maybe he's a good kid, but the optics just don't look good.  People said he played this close to the vest ala Cody Zeller, but this seems to me to be 180 degrees out from how the Zellers handled it, at least at the end. 

I'll address some of these.

I'm one of those that originally did not think he would play with Furst and I said so on the board.  That's on me, not him.  At the time I said that, Furst was the higher regarded prospect and Trey had not yet developed his outside game.  A lot happened in the two years since.

As far as playing with Lander.  Maybe that was true, maybe not.  But, that happens a lot with high school kids.  And, if true, we don't know the reasons.  As IU fans, we're inclined to side with the player that became a Hoosier versus the one who didn't.  That's fair, as long as we accept the reality that the situation may be a lot more complicated than just not wanting to play with someone.

I'm not going to speculate why the staff felt the way they did, or even if they did.  Or, maybe they knew we were behind and just did not want that to be public.

On the 4th one.  Yeah, I'm not a fan of public announcements.  That said, how is this different than other kids that have these announcement.  Who know.  Maybe Romeo knew it was IU 2 weeks before his announcement and just didn't publicly say so.  For every Cody Zeller Jared Jeffries that apparently changes his mind overnight, there are probably 20 that know well before their announcement.  The best thing for these guys to do would be to eliminate these types of announcements.  But, Trey's mistake here was admitting to knowing two weeks in advance.  

The leak was unfortunate and I'm sure it was very upsetting and left everyone scrambling on how to react.  Keep in mind that this was a high school radio station, so there were others that had the info in addition to the radio host and Trey.  I'm fairly confident that the leak came from someone outside those two.  

I have reliable information that he did not know it was Archie's birthday when he announced the date. but found out later.  At that point, changing the date would have been a give-away about IU's chances.  I can go either way on this one.  But, keep in mind it was not him that announced the Final Two.  It was social media driven that it was between PU and IU.  Who knows, maybe the final 2 were actually PU and UVA.  We're all at fault for driving the IU vs PU component of this.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I understand wishing to miss out on the drama...I’d love kids to be less theatrical but it isn’t like you HAVE to follow these recruitments so closely. You could avoid all the sites and this side of the forum. We come here because we care so much lol. It’s like crack to an addict lol. My brother loves IU basketball too but he has never got  on the internet once to find out what is going on. He says I’ll know who we get when you tell me lol. So I kinda mean you can live without knowing until you pick up the media guide still if you really want to....but I know you are just like me...you don’t REALLY want to. We just want decisions mad me the way we want for the team we want. I admit it! Won’t happen that way but sure that’s what I want to hear. I loved the Geronimo recruitment...but that’s the exception not the rule lol.

I wish I could be like your brother where i did not worry about recruiting 

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38 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Yeah, that could be...I don't know how much IU would have been penalized if the 3 incoming freshmen CAM's first year (Smith, Durham, Moore) would have reopened their recruitments. Did all 3 of them already have a signed NLI? I don't remember and I don't recall how that affects the APR either.

Durham has been a good player, and hasn't been a problem.

I don’t think it would have hurt because they wouldn’t have been transfers. They never attended the school. I think Archie took them two fold. One the school probably pushed him to honor the scholarships and two he probably felt they had enough talent despite maybe the fit to help him win. Archie had a pretty bad team coming in...to lose a whole recruiting year he probably thought would set him back more. Probably should have just cleaned house...taken the grade violation and post season ban for a year and started fresh. It’s like a band aid...just rip it off.

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1 hour ago, Indykev said:

One of the more strange endings to a recruitment I can remember for sure. Lying to the media and still talking to IU up until the day before just so you can post a video on the date you wanted, not a good look for sure. I guess thats the day we live in now. I almost miss the days of picking up a news paper and seeing so in so committed to wherever, knowing nothing leading up to that.

When he talked to IU on Wednesday or Thursday, how do you know he wasn't letting Archie of his decision?  Why assume the worst? 

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56 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep...don’t for sure. Hopefully it doesn’t effect the quality of IU basketball...I hope Archie pulls out a win out of all this. Feels like 21 class is hitting the 2 min warning and we have the ball on our own 10...needing to drive 90 yds to tie the game. Fortunately for us we basically just saw IU do that against PSU and win!

I wouldn't say that this class is down to the 2 minute warning since the recruiting for this class will go well into May and June.

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1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I probably should post this in a different thread because it's not specific to Trey Kauffman, this is a general point that potentially applies to Kauffman, but I'm so sick of these clearly 4 position players being sold by people that they need to play the 2/3  in college for the NBA. That's just so wrong IMO and actually hinders their chances of making the NBA.

The NBA is going smaller, not taller. In the NBA 2's/3's are playing the 4. 3's and 4's are often times playing the 5. The NBA is not looking for 4's to play shooting guard. They're looking for guys like Kauffman and Justin Smith to show they can play the 4/5 with perimeter skills.

Take Justin Smith for example, yes he needs to show perimeter skills. He needs to show he can knock down spot up 3's and show the ability to attack off the dribble against bigger defenders, but his best chance to shine in that role at the college level is by playing the 4 so he's matched up against bigger guys and can exploit his athleticism, and knock down open 3's off flaring when he sets ball screens.

Nearly every college offense is the same in 2020, in nearly every college offense, including IU's, the 4 spends plenty of time on the perimeter. The 4's are setting ball screens for the perimeter players and then flaring to the wing, corner or top of the key. Smith, Kauffman, TJD, etc. just need to show they can consistently hit those open, pick and pop 3's. They don't need to play the 2/3 and try to show they're guards and offense creators.

IMO it's bad advice. Justin Smith's best chance to make the NBA IMO was to play the 4 next to a guy like TJD, and show he can hit open 3's off the pick and roll, take bigger defenders off the dribble after the pick and roll, and to show he can defend bigger guys if asked to play the 4/5 in the NBA.

Same for Kauffman. 

Juwan Morgan is an excellent example.  He's made the NBA as a niche player who primarily plays inside.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

I'll address some of these.

I'm one of those that originally did not think he would play with Furst and I said so on the board.  That's on me, not him.  At the time I said that, Furst was the higher regarded prospect and Trey had not yet developed his outside game.  A lot happened in the two years since.

As far as playing with Lander.  Maybe that was true, maybe not.  But, that happens a lot with high school kids.  And, if true, we don't know the reasons.  As IU fans, we're inclined to side with the player that became a Hoosier versus the one who didn't.  That's fair, as long as we accept the reality that the situation may be a lot more complicated than just not wanting to play with someone.

I'm not going to speculate why the staff felt the way they did, or even if they did.  Or, maybe they knew we were behind and just did not want that to be public.

On the 4th one.  Yeah, I'm not a fan of public announcements.  That said, how is this different than other kids that have these announcement.  Who know.  Maybe Romeo knew it was IU 2 weeks before his announcement and just didn't publicly say so.  For every Cody Zeller that apparently changes his mind overnight, there are probably 20 that know well before their announcement.  The best thing for these guys to do would be to eliminate these types of announcements.  But, Trey's mistake here was admitting to knowing two weeks in advance.  

The leak was unfortunate and I'm sure it was very upsetting and left everyone scrambling on how to react.  Keep in mind that this was a high school radio station, so there were others that had the info in addition to the radio host and Trey.  I'm fairly confident that the leak came from someone outside those two.  

I have reliable information that he did not know it was Archie's birthday when he announced the date. but found out later.  At that point, changing the date would have been a give-away about IU's chances.  I can go either way on this one.  But, keep in mind it was not him that announced the Final Two.  It was social media driven that it was between PU and IU.  Who knows, maybe the final 2 were actually PU and UVA.  We're all at fault for driving the IU vs PU component of this.

Given that Trey kinda likes the Ball in his hands and has some point forward skills maybe he didn’t play AAU ball with Lander because he didn’t want it to hinder his growth in that area. Playing with a ball dominant guard might not have benefited him best. That said I think Khristian played a year up so I think that is all bull talk. Furst it only made sense they both probably play the 4...despite what he says Purdue is selling him on. That will have to prove itself out on the court. Only makes sense the two best power forwards in Indiana HS basketball probably wouldn’t play alongside each other in college. It’s up to Painter to make that work and them happy.

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2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Given that Trey kinda likes the Ball in his hands and has some point forward skills maybe he didn’t play AAU ball with Lander because he didn’t want it to hinder his growth in that area. Playing with a ball dominant guard might not have benefited him best. That said I think Khristian played a year up so I think that is all bull talk. First it only made sense they both probably play the 4...despite what he says Purdue is selling him on. That will have to prove itself out on the court. Only makes sense the two best power forwards in Indiana HS basketball probably wouldn’t play alongside each other in college. It’s up to Painter to make that work and them happy.

Trey didn't play with Lander in his later years because Lander was so good that he playing up a class and Trey was not playing with the 'big boys' in AAU until between his sophomore and junior season.  Trey was not part of the Indiana Elite program until then. 

He's developed a lot as a player over the last 3 years.  In fact, when they were freshmen. his teammate Kooper Jacobi actually had the more immediate impact on the Silver Creek team.  Trey was slowed but a wrist injury that cause him to miss the start of the season, but even after he came back,Jacobi was more consistent through most of that season.  Now, Jacobi is no slouch.  He's committed to Toledo.  But he's not a Top 40 prospect either. 

 

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18 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'll address some of these.

I'm one of those that originally did not think he would play with Furst and I said so on the board.  That's on me, not him.  At the time I said that, Furst was the higher regarded prospect and Trey had not yet developed his outside game.  A lot happened in the two years since.

As far as playing with Lander.  Maybe that was true, maybe not.  But, that happens a lot with high school kids.  And, if true, we don't know the reasons.  As IU fans, we're inclined to side with the player that became a Hoosier versus the one who didn't.  That's fair, as long as we accept the reality that the situation may be a lot more complicated than just not wanting to play with someone.

I'm not going to speculate why the staff felt the way they did, or even if they did.  Or, maybe they knew we were behind and just did not want that to be public.

On the 4th one.  Yeah, I'm not a fan of public announcements.  That said, how is this different than other kids that have these announcement.  Who know.  Maybe Romeo knew it was IU 2 weeks before his announcement and just didn't publicly say so.  For every Cody Zeller that apparently changes his mind overnight, there are probably 20 that know well before their announcement.  The best thing for these guys to do would be to eliminate these types of announcements.  But, Trey's mistake here was admitting to knowing two weeks in advance.  

The leak was unfortunate and I'm sure it was very upsetting and left everyone scrambling on how to react.  Keep in mind that this was a high school radio station, so there were others that had the info in addition to the radio host and Trey.  I'm fairly confident that the leak came from someone outside those two.  

I have reliable information that he did not know it was Archie's birthday when he announced the date. but found out later.  At that point, changing the date would have been a give-away about IU's chances.  I can go either way on this one.  But, keep in mind it was not him that announced the Final Two.  It was social media driven that it was between PU and IU.  Who knows, maybe the final 2 were actually PU and UVA.  We're all at fault for driving the IU vs PU component of this.

All of these are good points, and I certainly trust you perspective as I mentioned. But I still think from an outside perspective, this had a lot of bad optics.  I don't believe for a second Archie and his staff put out false positives so to speak, because the backlash would be people saying he can't recruit and that he is on thin ice (reference this thread).  The insiders here and elsewhere were all confident right up until 24 hours prior some even raising their confidence level, but Trey had made his decision 2 weeks prior.  Their confidence was based on information coming from somewhere.  Someone somewhere was putting out bad info, and it doesn't make sense for it to come from the staff, if anything they would have been down playing it.  Finally, the last 24 hours were an absolute s#!tshow.  On one hand I feel bad for the kid because this spun out of control so quickly, but on the other, he brought it on himself with all of the drama and suspense he created, and then he doubled down with his posts last night.  I agree with Indykev that I liked the days when I found out who committed and then worked backwards to see who they were and what they had done.  At any rate he is gone.  He joins the ranks of Trey Lyles, Marques Teague, Keion Brooks and others, whom I no longer care about or follow.  Someone should probably sit down with him and show him the Sean May return to Bloomington game so he knows what to expect.  

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1 minute ago, Muddy River said:

Fouls, Honest question.  If he knew 2 weeks prior where he was going why wait?  Why not  at least tell Archie privately so he could move on?  That would seen the "right" thing to do.  Anything else seems like deception.

How do we know he didn't tell Archie

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5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

How do we know he didn't tell Archie

As I mentioned, I would expect Archie to start downplaying the possibility to minimize the shock factor and our insiders would have been backing down on their confidence levels as opposed to holding steady or increasing them.

Edit:  I'll add that if Archie did already know, and kept it quiet, then all of the insiders here and elsewhere were completely off base.  I just don't believe that to be true.

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17 minutes ago, Muddy River said:

As I mentioned, I would expect Archie to start downplaying the possibility to minimize the shock factor and our insiders would have been backing down on their confidence levels as opposed to holding steady or increasing them.

Edit:  I'll add that if Archie did already know, and kept it quiet, then all of the insiders here and elsewhere were completely off base.  I just don't believe that to be true.

The staff had doubts if they did not know for certain  Otherwise, why the late offer to the European big?

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This kid is not worth getting worked up or salty over. He's a good player and all, but I'm definitely in "who's next" mode.

I just don't like the optics of losing a top 100 recruit from Southern Indiana to our rival.

Seriously, being as objective as I can, I don't understand why someone who wants to be successful in basketball would choose Purdue. I just can't get there mentally.

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