Jerome Hunter's Improvement

[KoB2011]

35 minutes ago, slojoe said:

I didn't say that there wasn't any improvement.  I said there hadn't been a great improvement over a 1 or 2 year period except for Morgan.

You said "start mediocre and stay mediocre" which isn't backed up at all by the fact that we are seeing steady improvement YoY. 

[slojoe]

5 hours ago, DeadOne said:

I don’t think he was arguing that RP had made a big jump but rather that given his injuries he hasn’t quite had a full opportunity to make a big jump.  Same to be said for Race and Jerome for that matter.

I did note that injuries were a factor.

[slojoe]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

You said "start mediocre and stay mediocre" which isn't backed up at all by the fact that we are seeing steady improvement YoY. 

We are at a point that we are now "mediocre" -- i.e., for 2 years we've been on the bubble for qualifying for the NCAAT.   I said unless in the future we pick up the pace of improvement we will stay mediocre.

[FKIM01]

46 minutes ago, slojoe said:

We are at a point that we are now "mediocre" -- i.e., for 2 years we've been on the bubble for qualifying for the NCAAT.   I said unless in the future we pick up the pace of improvement we will stay mediocre.

I don't think IU will stay mediocre.  I see all sorts of signs of better days...

[milehiiu]

36 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't think IU will stay mediocre.  I see all sorts of signs of better days...

If IU were in many other states.  Colorado, for example. Or North Dakota.  I could see IU staying mediocre for the most part.  However there is, and always been too much high school basketball talent in the state of Indiana for IU, and for that matter Purdue to become or remain mediocre.   That is.... unless we have a head coach that drives the talent out of the state, instead of locking up the borders.

[Hoosierhoopster]

8 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

I don't think IU will stay mediocre.  I see all sorts of signs of better days...

Certainly fair to say we've been mediocre over the past several years at least -- but I agree. Do we need to pick up the pace of improvement, or have we been seeing gradual improvement that is finally starting to get us there, with signs that it's going to continue?

I can't say we know the answer, yet, but to me we are seeing gradual improvement, and including from guys who haven't been healthy and who will return next season looking like they will play major roles (Hunter, Race, Rob), with a Cody-level forward in TJD, who will almost certainly be a monster next season, and with yet another top IN recruit picking IU and in that kid a dominant guard with NBA potential. 

So recruiting? Check. Improved play on both sides of the ball? Check. A team that may (or may not) be on the bubble again, yeah, but win our 2 home games and we're clearly in, not a question mark, and just as importantly, we may have lost at Illinois but we played the last two road games much better, the team is growing with Race's emergence and Hunter's growth, and the future looks up, not down or the same.

[BGleas]

3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Certainly fair to say we've been mediocre over the past several years at least -- but I agree. Do we need to pick up the pace of improvement, or have we been seeing gradual improvement that is finally starting to get us there, with signs that it's going to continue?

I can't say we know the answer, yet, but to me we are seeing gradual improvement, and including from guys who haven't been healthy and who will return next season looking like they will play major roles (Hunter, Race, Rob), with a Cody-level forward in TJD, who will almost certainly be a monster next season, and with yet another top IN recruit picking IU and in that kid a dominant guard with NBA potential. 

So recruiting? Check. Improved play on both sides of the ball? Check. A team that may (or may not) be on the bubble again, yeah, but win our 2 home games and we're clearly in, not a question mark, and just as importantly, we may have lost at Illinois but we played the last two road games much better, the team is growing with Race's emergence and Hunter's growth, and the future looks up, not down or the same.

I agree as well. There has absolutely been improvement, albeit gradual, especially the last 3 weeks or so. You also mentioned playing the last two road games better, but I'd add in the Minnesota game as well and make it the last 3 road games. And as you've said, a big part of the improvement is guys like Hunter and Race, and to an extent Rob getting healthy and comfortable. It bodes well for next season.

The flip side though is that IU has lost 7 of their last 10, including not showing up at all in 4 of those games, and blowing a late 5 point lead in another. I don't bring that up to be negative necessarily, I just think momentum for a program at this stage is so important, and IU needs to find a way to win these last 2 home games and then win 1-2 in the BTT. Going into the Tournament and the offseason with some momentum is really important. 

Then barring any major, unexpected changes and assuming a Lander reclass, I do think in year 4 for Archie Miller there needs to be a bigger leap. I'm not saying he'd be in trouble of losing his job or anything, but IMO with most of the team coming back (especially TJD) and the 2020 class including Lander, the improvement needs to spike more. For example, it will be disappointing if we improve next year but it's to something like 6th or 7th in the conference. By year 4 the leap should be to a conference contender IMO. 

[IU878176]

On 3/2/2020 at 1:04 PM, btownqb said:

Getting on coaches for sub patterns is a complete waste of time. We don't know everything that goes into those decisions. 

Dakich “wasted”  five minutes discussing his puzzlement that Hunter was pulled right after hitting 2 threes. Discussing moves/players/coaches/recruits/subs/offense/defense is just what fans do.....and always have and always will.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, IU878176 said:

Dakich “wasted”  five minutes discussing his puzzlement that Hunter was pulled right after hitting 2 threes. Discussing moves/players/coaches/recruits/subs/offense/defense is just what fans do.....and always have and always will.

ding ding ding

[btownqb]

8 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Dakich “wasted”  five minutes discussing his puzzlement that Hunter was pulled right after hitting 2 threes. Discussing moves/players/coaches/recruits/subs/offense/defense is just what fans do.....and always have and always will.

Congrats on wasting your time! DD is an idiot btw. 

Recruits, coaches, players, some offense and some defense we as fans are farrrrrrrrrr more knowledgeable than we are about who should and shouldn't be in the game. Just leave that to the coaches.... really not that hard, honestly. 

[BobSaccamanno]

Regarding Hunter, if I were coach scouting high school talent, Hunter would be the type of prime talent I would go after.  He's long and has the ability to do all the versatile things you want from a wing, agility, can shoot, competitive kid, get some boards, has the athleticism to defend, etc.  If I were writing up a scouting report on him, I would say he needs to work on scoring other ways besides shooting threes.  I think he's posted up a bit, but he's a neophyte slashing to the bucket.  It's one thing driving to the hoop when you're playing Springfield Catholic, but the B1G is a different beast.  His handle could be tighter and he needs to learn to slash against the athleticism of this level where athletic, tall guys collapse on you.  

But, my point is, he has the physical ability to do it, and I fully expect him to do so.  He's the type of player who has a high ceiling.  He's just lost time.  Hopefully (fingers crossed) he's put that behind him and we will see a more complete scorer. 

The point above about Race-Rob-Jerome being an excellent combo out of that 2018 class next year is a great point.  You add TJD with his expanding game and tremendous athleticism, as well as Franklin and Lander and others, and you're talking about a talented nucleus.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I agree as well. There has absolutely been improvement, albeit gradual, especially the last 3 weeks or so. You also mentioned playing the last two road games better, but I'd add in the Minnesota game as well and make it the last 3 road games. And as you've said, a big part of the improvement is guys like Hunter and Race, and to an extent Rob getting healthy and comfortable. It bodes well for next season.

The flip side though is that IU has lost 7 of their last 10, including not showing up at all in 4 of those games, and blowing a late 5 point lead in another. I don't bring that up to be negative necessarily, I just think momentum for a program at this stage is so important, and IU needs to find a way to win these last 2 home games and then win 1-2 in the BTT. Going into the Tournament and the offseason with some momentum is really important. 

Then barring any major, unexpected changes and assuming a Lander reclass, I do think in year 4 for Archie Miller there needs to be a bigger leap. I'm not saying he'd be in trouble of losing his job or anything, but IMO with most of the team coming back (especially TJD) and the 2020 class including Lander, the improvement needs to spike more. For example, it will be disappointing if we improve next year but it's to something like 6th or 7th in the conference. By year 4 the leap should be to a conference contender IMO. 

Agree, and I do think we will compete at or about the top of the B1G next season. That of course assumes health, and I'm assuming Lander reclasses. I am NOT assuming he's suddenly our best guard, he will be a frosh and he will have to play real D under CAM, but that's real added scoring from the perimeter/wing, and with what I think Hunter's growth and readiness will be, that's promising.

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Congrats on wasting your time! DD is an idiot btw. 

Recruits, coaches, players, some offense and some defense we as fans are farrrrrrrrrr more knowledgeable than we are about who should and shouldn't be in the game. Just leave that to the coaches.... really not that hard, honestly. 

Just because they may know more does not mean they are above being second guessed.  For me part of the reason we are hard to watch at time is that there is no flow partly to the substitution patterns 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Regarding Hunter, if I were coach scouting high school talent, Hunter would be the type of prime talent I would go after.  He's long and has the ability to do all the versatile things you want from a wing, agility, can shoot, competitive kid, get some boards, has the athleticism to defend, etc.  If I were writing up a scouting report on him, I would say he needs to work on scoring other ways besides shooting threes.  I think he's posted up a bit, but he's a neophyte slashing to the bucket.  It's one thing driving to the hoop when you're playing Springfield Catholic, but the B1G is a different beast.  His handle could be tighter and he needs to learn to slash against the athleticism of this level where athletic, tall guys collapse on you.  

But, my point is, he has the physical ability to do it, and I fully expect him to do so.  He's the type of player who has a high ceiling.  He's just lost time.  Hopefully (fingers crossed) he's put that behind him and we will see a more complete scorer. 

The point above about Race-Rob-Jerome being an excellent combo out of that 2018 class next year is a great point.  You add TJD with his expanding game and tremendous athleticism, as well as Franklin and Lander and others, and you're talking about a talented nucleus.

I don't think its his offense that is lacking or keeping him off the floor.  Its his complete lack of defense that gets him seated.  He and JBJ remind me of each other on defense.  Can't really defend a quick on the perimeter guy.  Until he gets better at that, or starts putting up 15-20 a game he isn't going to be a starter.  Just my opinion.  I like the kid and he has gotten more confidence shooting, but he really only shoots a couple times a game and gives up more points than he scores.  Need to reverse that balance

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Just because they may know more does not mean they are above being second guessed.  For me part of the reason we are hard to watch at time is that there is no flow partly to the substitution patterns 

To each their own

[Billingsley99]

24 minutes ago, btownqb said:

To each their own

It would be a boring  non existent message if everyone agree with every decision our coach makes

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

It would be a boring  non existent message if everyone agree with every decision our coach makes

I've stated the stuff that I understand talking about. The sub patterns are simply a waste of time. He pulled him when he pulled him, he puts him in when he puts him in.  DD wasting 5 mins on his radio show... just not for me. 

[Billingsley99]

22 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I've stated the stuff that I understand talking about. The sub patterns are simply a waste of time. He pulled him when he pulled him, he puts him in when he puts him in.  DD wasting 5 mins on his radio show... just not for me. 

It's all a waste of time we have zero say or impact anyway. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

It's all a waste of time we have zero say or impact anyway. 

For me since I am not a coach and know the x and o's that well the one thing I think I know well enough to complain about is sub patterns.  I don't like the subbing after the first time out every game especially when we get off to a really fast start..  It is just not Archie and IU that does this and it drives me crazy seeing coaches sub so much.  I know things have changed but just go and watch old games from the 80's and 90's you just don't see as much subbing as you do now.  There were plenty of games where RMK would only sub in the first half was when someone got in foul trouble and back then that was getting the 3rd foul.

[btownqb]

8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

It's all a waste of time we have zero say or impact anyway. 

Agree

[Billingsley99]

24 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

For me since I am not a coach and know the x and o's that well the one thing I think I know well enough to complain about is sub patterns.  I don't like the subbing after the first time out every game especially when we get off to a really fast start..  It is just not Archie and IU that does this and it drives me crazy seeing coaches sub so much.  I know things have changed but just go and watch old games from the 80's and 90's you just don't see as much subbing as you do now.  There were plenty of games where RMK would only sub in the first half was when someone got in foul trouble and back then that was getting the 3rd foul.

To me it just feels too scripted. Part of being a good coach is a gut feeling or riding a hot hand. As a player it usually takes a few trips up and down to get a feel and to get some flow.when you sub 4 guys at once it really limits the offense and the flow of the game IMO

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

To me it just feels too scripted. Part of being a good coach is a gut feeling or riding a hot hand. As a player it usually takes a few trips up and down to get a feel and to get some flow.when you sub 4 guys at once it really limits the offense and the flow of the game IMO

I just think these coaches today is to worried about keeping their players happy with their playing time they try to play to many players.  I would prefer a rotation of 8 players that played and only use the rest if needed for foul trouble or injury.

I remember when Dean smith use to rotate 5 new guys in at a time and I think that is what caused him not to win as many championships.

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Agree

from your posts lately, maybe this forum is causing you more stress than it really should.  Don't let it bother you man, its not worth it.  Take a break from here and come back after the season.  I don't see the topic trend changing anytime soon.  Just looking out for you, nothing personal against you in my post here.

[btownqb]

Just now, IowaHoosierFan said:

from your posts lately, maybe this forum is causing you more stress than it really should.  Don't let it bother you man, its not worth it.  Take a break from here and come back after the season.  I don't see the topic trend changing anytime soon.  Just looking out for you, nothing personal against you in my post here.

Stress? Brother I deal with 14-18 year olds.. this is stress relief!! Lol 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I just think these coaches today is to worried about keeping their players happy with their playing time they try to play to many players.  I would prefer a rotation of 8 players that played and only use the rest if needed for foul trouble or injury.

this is one thing we agree on.  I would like to see the first non injury/foul trouble sub to happen around the 4-8 minute mark.  Let these guys get into a rhythm and work through any rough or slow starts.  Then at half time, look at what line-up or guys have performed the best and go with them