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Why we can't make free throws


jojo123
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I can watch every one of the players shoot free throws and see many flaws in their form. Trace. Shoots flat footed, ball is on the palm, doesn't shoot it in one motion, falls backwards at times. no routine. Hunter, Ball on the palm, shoots flat footed, fall backwards, ball goes of the wrong side of the hand. I could go on. These are fundamentals that used to be taught in the sixth grade. Now because of AAU and all the importance on dunking and the three point shot the fundamentals are a lost art. These are things that should be practice habits before a kid hits ninth grade. But if Archie wants to win games he better teach the kid that shoots more free throws than anybody else in college basketball,  how to shoot them. 

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My opinion? Tech. Social media. Cell phones. Consoles. Way more fun lazy stuff to do that shoot 500 free throws per day.

Also, workouts. Go lift, stop by the gym on the way out and shoot a jumper. Funny feeling that I remember all too well.

Practice all day all the time just doesn’t happen like it used to. Too many tweets and hotty hookups to be had. 
 

Just random guesses

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7 minutes ago, Inequality said:

My opinion? Tech. Social media. Cell phones. Consoles. Way more fun lazy stuff to do that shoot 500 free throws per day.

Also, workouts. Go lift, stop by the gym on the way out and shoot a jumper. Funny feeling that I remember all too well.

Practice all day all the time just doesn’t happen like it used to. Too many tweets and hotty hookups to be had. 
 

Just random guesses

I think kids just going outside shooting by themselves don't happen like it did when I was young.  I would shoot 10 jumpers from 5 spots and then shoot 20 free throws and do that a few times a day.  It helped having a goal at my house but I put the work in.  I think kids miss out just playing the game in pickups games at the park.  Everything is about workouts and playing as many games as you can in the summer.  They work on skill development but they don't learn how to play the game

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7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think kids just going outside shooting by themselves don't happen like it did when I was young.  I would shoot 10 jumpers from 5 spots and then shoot 20 free throws and do that a few times a day.  It helped having a goal at my house but I put the work in.  I think kids miss out just playing the game in pickups games at the park.  Everything is about workouts and playing as many games as you can in the summer.  They work on skill development but they don't learn how to play the game

I’ve always said this and am constantly on my little boy... there is a difference in someone that goes through the motions for a label and some pictures than someone that puts on the work to be the very best that they can be.

So far at 10 years old, he’s received not only state but national spotlight, broke a couple records for his age group and is now a sponsored kid. I’m rough on him but we have fun as well. It’s hard to convince him or even kids in general that hard work makes for easier fun in the long run.

These kids at the D1 level put in work. There is not doubt about that. But to really excel, you have to go above and beyond or else your always going to be behind the guys that do put the work in. You have to have that competitive fire to motivate yourself.

Sometimes when you’ve done the same thing over and over, you feel like your burnt out because you don’t notice any improvement. Thats where the developers come in and show you how to get there while also motivating you.

Bah... I’m running on about 3 hours of sleep in the last 48 or so. I’ve also got a meatloaf roll I copied off BBQ Pit Boys on the coals I’m about to destroy. 

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39 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think kids just going outside shooting by themselves don't happen like it did when I was young.  I would shoot 10 jumpers from 5 spots and then shoot 20 free throws and do that a few times a day.  It helped having a goal at my house but I put the work in.  I think kids miss out just playing the game in pickups games at the park.  Everything is about workouts and playing as many games as you can in the summer.  They work on skill development but they don't learn how to play the game

You mentioned pickup games at the park. Even pre-Covid, second street park courts, Bryan park courts, SRSC, YMCAs around Bloomington had very very little to sometimes zero activity on the basketball courts.

When I was younger, Sean May would meet up with me at the Winslow YMCA and we would wait forever it seemed to get in on the next game on a court. But once we had our turn, we would play until they shut the lights off.

Edited by Inequality
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19 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I’ve always said this and am constantly on my little boy... there is a difference in someone that goes through the motions for a label and some pictures than someone that puts on the work to be the very best that they can be.

So far at 10 years old, he’s received not only state but national spotlight, broke a couple records for his age group and is now a sponsored kid. I’m rough on him but we have fun as well. It’s hard to convince him or even kids in general that hard work makes for easier fun in the long run.

These kids at the D1 level put in work. There is not doubt about that. But to really excel, you have to go above and beyond or else your always going to be behind the guys that do put the work in. You have to have that competitive fire to motivate yourself.

Sometimes when you’ve done the same thing over and over, you feel like your burnt out because you don’t notice any improvement. Thats where the developers come in and show you how to get there while also motivating you.

Bah... I’m running on about 3 hours of sleep in the last 48 or so. I’ve also got a meatloaf roll I copied off BBQ Pit Boys on the coals I’m about to destroy. 

I liken what you said to this quote, Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard! I have noticed sometimes even our guys look like they are aiming the ball at the hoop while they are shooting free throws! 

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Just now, Inequality said:

You mentioned pickup games at the park. Even pre-Covid, second street park courts, Bryan park courts, SRSC, YMCAs around Bloomington had very very little to sometimes zero activity on the basketball courts.

Sean May would meet up with me at the Winslow YMCA and we would wait forever it seemed to get in on the next game on a court. But once we had our turn, we would play until they shut the lights off

This topic was discussed on a podcast I watched with Guyton and he had Alford on it.  Steve said he would go to the park in New Castle or even Muncie to play against older players.  He said getting bullied on the court from older guys made him better.

Steve even said that with kids today plays way to much summer ball and didn't think having personal trainers at an early age is that good either.  He said they get individual skills but don't know really how to play in games and they don't care if they lose.

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1 minute ago, ButlerHoosier said:

I liken what you said to this quote, Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard! I have noticed sometimes even our guys look like they are aiming the ball at the hoop while they are shooting free throws! 

I noticed a lot of our players lean back while shooting and not going through with the shot.

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I still see plenty of kids playing outside. I think the bigger problem is that open gyms are basically just 2 hours of scrimmaging. Skill development workouts do a lot more for kids than simply running up and down the court over and over again. If you have flaws that make you a less efficient player, you're going to repeat those flaws in scrimmages. AAU exacerbates this. I mentioned in the high school thread the other day: I see so many guys catch the ball on the wing and travel now. Sometimes they get called for it, sometimes they don't. I'm also seeing a lot of guys catching the ball and hopping sideways to shoot. Just one of those habits that's really hard to break, and scrimmaging won't fix it. 

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

This topic was discussed on a podcast I watched with Guyton and he had Alford on it.  Steve said he would go to the park in New Castle or even Muncie to play against older players.  He said getting bullied on the court from older guys made him better.

Steve even said that with kids today plays way to much summer ball and didn't think having personal trainers at an early age is that good either.  He said they get individual skills but don't know really how to play in games and they don't care if they lose.

You mentioned training/conditioning at an early age. I coached some kids and we won 4 championships in a row.

Another coach asked me if I could put a finger on what it was that got the kids to play like they do. My response was most coaches start and end everything with a methodical approach and I instead chose to make it fun.  

Instead of making kids run I allowed them to play the game. Kids run all the time everywhere they go. They don’t need practice running. We practiced game scenarios and fundamentals but mostly we just played the game. They had fun which was what it was all about anyways and the rest just fell into place. 

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I honestly dont understand the poor free throw shooting.  Probably the most frustrating thing for me. 

Every free throw line I shot from in Indiana had that little burned in dot in line with the rim. I wasn't the best but as a big slow dude I could should 80% right handed and around 70% left.  I am somewhat ambidextrous. Taught myself  that.

Hell I taught myself to shoot free throws from the 3 point line.

If you dont believe me, give me a day to break the rust off and give me a time and place. 

But in my high school practices, we had six goals, and we each had to hit 10 before practice and had to hit 10 before we could leave. 

 

Edited by mrflynn03
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12 hours ago, Inequality said:

My opinion? Tech. Social media. Cell phones. Consoles. Way more fun lazy stuff to do that shoot 500 free throws per day.

Also, workouts. Go lift, stop by the gym on the way out and shoot a jumper. Funny feeling that I remember all too well.

Practice all day all the time just doesn’t happen like it used to. Too many tweets and hotty hookups to be had. 
 

Just random guesses

I agree with your theories that contribute to the problem.  But, other teams overcome those distractions and shoot FTs well.  To me, it's just another indicator that this team and coaching staff are perpetually underachieving.  This is something that can be fixed.  Yet, it's not.  

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9 hours ago, Muckraker said:

Players have to have the mindset that the next play they make is the most important play of the game, and that includes foul shots. 

I was getting ready to say the same thing.  You just don't see the concentration from some of these guys that is required to be a good FT shooter.. 

They need to better understand that one point matters! It doesn't matter any less if it's at the 15:31 mark of the first half or with 11 seconds left in the game. It's still a point that can help you win, or a lost point that will contribute to you losing.   

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Bardo made a great point when calling the game Sunday.  He talked about the need to practice FTs under game-like conditions, specifically when you are fatigued.  Yes, these guys need to set aside time to practice FTs on their own time.  But, the coaches also need to set aside time in practice to ensure that FTs are shot after some hard drills that will fatigue the players a bit.  Maybe they are doing that, but if not, Bardo's point is still a valid one.

 

Edited by 5fouls
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11 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Bardo made a great point when calling the game Sunday.  He talked about the need to practice FTs under game-like conditions, specifically when you are fatigued.  Yes, these guys need to set aside time to practice FTs on their own time.  But, the coaches also need to set aside time in practice to ensure that FTs are shot after some hard drills that will fatigue the players a bit.  Maybe they are doing that, but if not, Bardo's point is still a valid one.

 

I'd be absolutely floored if they weren't doing that. Literally every basketball team in the country from HS through college does that. 

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We would run full court sprints, stop, and then shoot FTs to get used to the feeling of being winded and then using the proper form. My guess is the team works on FTs but a couple things stand out - It's unclear how much they work at it as a team and it is clear from watching they do not follow a "form". Perhaps with the demands on their time it really falls to the players to do this on their own. At that point, it comes down to who good do you want to be at it?

I think if you are a guy like TJD with a legit shot at the NBA you would invest the time to be at least 75% or better on FTs, but  as bad as it looks sometimes he is close to 68%. That is not awful. You could try to convince him he is basically leaving money on the table when you consider he shoots over nine a game. He could be averaging closer to 22 points a game if he could shoot it over 75%.

I'm more surprised at Rob and Hunter and not just for the low % but for the fact they do not get to the line often. For a starting PG playing the minutes Rob plays, the idea he only  gets about 2 FTs a game is telling. 

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My unsubstantiated thought is that these kids all finally join a real, big time weight training program for the first time and their bodies explode with muscle. We see that rather clearly with many players. As a result, they need to re-learn shooting. That’s something that would make sense as an across-the-board reason for poor shooting, which we obviously suffer from. Perhaps that plus the pack line having higher-than-normal physical exertion on D? I don’t really know. 

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20 minutes ago, Muckraker said:

Our 1987 banner is hanging in Assembly Hall as a direct result of free throws. We made ours, and Syracuse missed the ones that could have won that game for them. 

I'll bet their player (Trish?) still has nightmares about the ones he clanked. 

Howard Triche.  A career 72% FT shooter at the 'Cuse.

58 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

My unsubstantiated thought is that these kids all finally join a real, big time weight training program for the first time and their bodies explode with muscle. We see that rather clearly with many players. As a result, they need to re-learn shooting. That’s something that would make sense as an across-the-board reason for poor shooting, which we obviously suffer from. Perhaps that plus the pack line having higher-than-normal physical exertion on D? I don’t really know. 

Now that very well might be the answer.

Edited by rico
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1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

My unsubstantiated thought is that these kids all finally join a real, big time weight training program for the first time and their bodies explode with muscle. We see that rather clearly with many players. As a result, they need to re-learn shooting. That’s something that would make sense as an across-the-board reason for poor shooting, which we obviously suffer from. Perhaps that plus the pack line having higher-than-normal physical exertion on D? I don’t really know. 

I think it has more to do with the fact that free throw shooting is often overlooked as a factor in game results. If player A shoots 7/8 free throws, but player B hits a three point shot at the end of the game to win by one point, which player is going to be considered to be the one that made the winning play? 

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1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

It is a rather lazy trope to look at young people and say “well those kids are just on their phones too much!!” as an explanation for poor FT shooting, IMO. 

Who said that? I’m the one that brought up devices including cell phones.

I travel the country with kids including my own to compete. I see it all the time which is why I threw that out there. Far from a lazy assumption.

Parents wonder why their kid fails to excel at the rate of other kids. Reps and muscle memory go a lot further than pixels and bandwidth.

Alford was a .897 free throw shooter. His dad made him shoot free throws every day. 

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