Joe_Hoopsier Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said: A hammer was invented, and now used, for very specific reasons. Can it be used to kill someone? Of course. You could kill someone with a broom, pillow, Hello Kitty doll... but those items are not manufactured for the purposes of killing. You're slipping in marketing, which is not the same thing. And yes, I agree with you... lets work on the people. Let's spend more on public health, mental health, civic projects that provide light and levity to a sometimes cruel world. Side step, but dear to me. Can we have a massive bon fire fueled by Hello kitty and Barney Dolls? My 2 girls are 27 and 30, and I STILL have Barney scars! OK, now back to the awesome serious discussion that we are being allowed to have here, in peace and polite disagreement. You all are rock stars! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 I've often been curious about something. Before Columbine mass shootings were basically non-existent. I've always thought that if we didn't give the murderers their 15 minutes it might be something to deter. I know, I know, I know....it's guns, it's types of guns, it's mental health, it's bullying,etc.....all I'm saying is since everything we've done since Columbine hasn't worked what harm would it be in not bringing the attention of the who the shooter or shooters are? I know several national folks who won't talk about this....and of course they get eaten alive by either side. Just saying it's a thought. Maybe less press about the shooter? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: I've often been curious about something. Before Columbine mass shootings were basically non-existent. I've always thought that if we didn't give the murderers their 15 minutes it might be something to deter. I know, I know, I know....it's guns, it's types of guns, it's mental health, it's bullying,etc.....all I'm saying is since everything we've done since Columbine hasn't worked what harm would it be in not bringing the attention of the who the shooter or shooters are? I know several national folks who won't talk about this....and of course they get eaten alive by either side. Just saying it's a thought. Maybe less press about the shooter? Unfortunately, the laws surrounding this need to label the crimes. Is it a Hate Crime? An act of terrorism? Domestic or not? Different treatment based on how it’s labeled. Always will be in the media to ensure that the perpetrators are treated accordingly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-politics-texas-shootings-56a4d01fb1cda19947db89fcb6bd85fd So he was in the building for about an hour, entered an unlocked door and no RSO on site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-politics-texas-shootings-56a4d01fb1cda19947db89fcb6bd85fd So he was in the building for about an hour, entered an unlocked door and no RSO on site. Yeah, just heard that... And there's a heart wrenching phone video of parents imploring the police to move in... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 4 hours ago, tdhoosier said: I’m all for making schools more secure, but to use your argument: this will apparently stop mass shootings??????? Yes. This isn't Rambo trying to get on the grounds... If he couldn't have accessed the grounds and/or the building, he's not in a position to mow down innocent kids... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 And now it's being reported that the parents who either implored the cops to act or tried to act themselves were cuffed, tasered and pepper sprayed... Unbelievable... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: And now it's being reported that the parents who either implored the cops to act or tried to act themselves were cuffed, tasered and pepper sprayed... Unbelievable... Just reading about this now - their inaction. And also seeing the police leadership trying to spin it. Not sure how you can spin this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 Each of the dots on this chart represents a country considered to be in the 'developed' world. One country seems to be quite the outlier compared to the others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 Gun ownership per 100 people. US double that of any other country (Falkland Islands is 2nd) and 10-20 times more than the majority of countries in the world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Lostin76 said: Just reading about this now - their inaction. And also seeing the police leadership trying to spin it. Not sure how you can spin this. Absolutely horrific. Their job is to Protect and Serve. Not doing either when its needed the most is absolutely unfathomable. This is the job that they signed up for. It's not pretty, but it's necessary. And then to see parents retained while everything was going on... I have no words. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 How about a bow and arrow? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10853849/Moment-Norway-killer-fires-three-arrows-revealed-tells-court-wish-theyre-alive-still.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 Wow! Police didn't arrive until 14 minutes after a 911 call. Early reports made the police look good. Now looking like they really f***ed it up. https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voice-frustration-over-shooting-response-11653588161 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, IUFLA said: I read the article... It should be signed into evidence as exhibit 1A (see what watching "Perry Mason" will do for ya?) for the term limits argument.. Do we really need a federal law before school administrators will do what's best for children though? I get when you pass things into law federally and locally then there will be government dollars that follow to pay for implementation of beefed up security, personnel that it would require, the training that would go into it. But as I mentioned earlier I taught 9 1/2 years and never once had a actual plan in place other than the one that me and my co-teachers came up with for our wing of the building. Edited May 27, 2022 by NotIThatLives 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Do we really need a federal law before school administrators will do what's best for children though? I get when you pass things into law federally and locally then there will be government dollars that follow to pay for implementation of beefed up security personnel that it would require the training that would go into it. But as I mentioned earlier I taught 9 1/2 years and never once had a actual plan in place other than the one that me and my co-teachers came up with for our wing of the building. You hit the nail on the head with the money part... I would venture to say many low income area schools need that money if they're going to implement safety measure that'll deter psychos... But as I read through the article and saw the reasons why Schumer tabled this (and I lump McConnell in the same group) it was a reminder of how ultra-partizanship and making a career of politics has made the legislative branch an abject failure... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 9 hours ago, 5fouls said: Each of the dots on this chart represents a country considered to be in the 'developed' world. One country seems to be quite the outlier compared to the others. Could you please cite the article so I can see who they consider the "developed world"? I'm looking at this chart... Where are all those people that are streaming across our southern border from again? And you're kinda sounding like the AR-15 isn't the only firearm you'd like to get rid of, or am I taking that wrong? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 Nashville elementary staff stop intruder- https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nashville-elementary-school-staff-take-down-and-restrain-intruder-until-police-arrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted May 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Could you please cite the article so I can see who they consider the "developed world"? I'm looking at this chart... Where are all those people that are streaming across our southern border from again? And you're kinda sounding like the AR-15 isn't the only firearm you'd like to get rid of, or am I taking that wrong? Here's the link. You'll see that they classified the developed world as basically all of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Canada, and the U.S. Frankly, looking at your graph, I don't consider it to be an 'achievement' to be 'better than' the Central and South American drug havens. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/world/us-gun-culture-world-comparison-intl-cmd/index.html Edited May 27, 2022 by 5fouls 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: Here's the link. You'll see that they classified the developed world as basically all of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Canada, and the U.S. Frankly, looking at your graph, I don't consider it to be an 'achievement' to be 'better than' the Central and South American drug havens. https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/26/world/us-gun-culture-world-comparison-intl-cmd/index.html I didn't post it as an "achievement." I posted it as a counterbalance to the graph you posted in order show how statistics can be used to cast a negative or positive light on a subject according to a person's agenda. If you want all guns confiscated, work toward amending the Constitution to delete the 2nd amendment... Good luck... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 13 hours ago, IUFLA said: Yes. This isn't Rambo trying to get on the grounds... If he couldn't have accessed the grounds and/or the building, he's not in a position to mow down innocent kids... I was just using your argument that a motivated criminal will find a way. A motivated criminal would also find their way into the school. Point being nothing is a 100% deterrent. We are looking at ways to minimize and reduce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I was just using your argument that a motivated criminal will find a way. A motivated criminal would also find their way into the school. Point being nothing is a 100% deterrent. We are looking at ways to minimize and reduce. I work in a secure facility. A kid like Ramos would have zero chance of getting in here... Zero... And we can do that for our schools and children. A 6 foot fence with surveillance cameras being monitored would have negated the threat. Cameras in the classrooms and halls would have let law enforcement know what was going on. There are a lot of relatively cheap things we could do to protect our children. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 34 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I didn't post it as an "achievement." I posted it as a counterbalance to the graph you posted in order show how statistics can be used to cast a negative or positive light on a subject according to a person's agenda. If you want all guns confiscated, work toward amending the Constitution to delete the 2nd amendment... Good luck... Beto apparently wants guns confiscated. "No American should own an AR-15" https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-beto-orourke-ar-15-position-campaign-website If you wonder why people are concerned, look no further. This was a Presidential candidate. Who thinks they would stop with Ar-15s? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Reacher said: Beto apparently wants guns confiscated. "No American should own an AR-15" https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-beto-orourke-ar-15-position-campaign-website If you wonder why people are concerned, look no further. This was a Presidential candidate. Who thinks they would stop with Ar-15s? He is only trying to get votes for governor. Look how many times he's changed his stance. Beto is an idiot. LOVES attention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 46 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I was just using your argument that a motivated criminal will find a way. A motivated criminal would also find their way into the school. Point being nothing is a 100% deterrent. We are looking at ways to minimize and reduce. You're talking about ways to minimize body count (and I feel really sad putting it like that, but...) And I'm talking about negating the threat all together... It doesn't take much "motivation" to go into a gun store and when you're refused buying an AR-15 because they're outlawed, and saying, "ok, give me a Glock 19 and a couple of 33 round magazines for it." That would fire at the same rate as an AR-15. That would hold the same capacity as the magazines the Ramos kid had for his AR. The only difference is the round they fire, and while the Glock's round (9mm) is not quite as lethal, it'll damn sure do the job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I work in a secure facility. A kid like Ramos would have zero chance of getting in here... Zero... And we can do that for our schools and children. A 6 foot fence with surveillance cameras being monitored would have negated the threat. Cameras in the classrooms and halls would have let law enforcement know what was going on. There are a lot of relatively cheap things we could do to protect our children. I agree with your sentiment, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute. First, these would not be relatively cheap solutions. Multiply the number of classrooms and hallways in a typical school building, then times the number of schools in a school district. The number becomes very big, very fast. I did a brief search for the cost of a surveillance camera, and even at $180 a pop, that's a lot of money. Until this becomes a federal government issue, and some of the billions that are sent overseas get redirected to take care of homeland security, this is going to be too expensive for many/most school districts. Secondly, even though student safety is paramount, I think there would be some pushback from local teacher unions on having cameras in the classroom. I mean, would you want your entire workday on film? Imagine if your employer could go back and review and see how often you were on HSN instead of working? 😜 This issue is at the forefront now, due to the shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde, but it's gonna take time and negotiations to implement what you are proposing in union employee, government funded institutions. Way different than private employers as far making quick change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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