AxnJxn

1 minute ago, rico said:

Bring on the Gophers.

Best full game we played all year (obviously). Have to say, i liked Brunk when he was here, but the ball off the beaner was pretty good comedy. As others have noted, we’re going to have to figure out how to take this on the road, but this should build some confidence, which was high on the list of things that this team has struggled with. 
 

Also really enjoyed TJD going around and high fiving anyone within reach - players, coaches, managers, fans, etc. Impossible not to love this kid, and his comment after the game about getting IU back to where it needs to be was good stuff. 

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

To me defense is much more team oriented and working together you can achieve more with less. Offensively sometimes you just have to go get yours and without the athletes it gets difficult. This is not worded well but hopefully it makes sense. 

It does. I mean, there's plenty of valid discussion about how we don't really have anyone that can create their own shot, or how we lack athleticism on the wings. I also really like how we look on defense this year - it's a notable departure from what we were seeing with our attempts to run the pack line the past few years, and it's actually enjoyable watching this team play defense (well, at least until PSU gets 3-4 shots in a possession due to offensive rebounds). 

43 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The team does work hard on defense, and credit them for that.  For them to have any kind of success, they need more synergy on offense and play smart and over their heads.  On offense we have too much one on one hero ball (primarily XJ and TJD), and not enough ball movement and screens to get guys like Kopp and Stewart going.

I think this is what is kind of head scratching to me, that we can be a very, very good defensive team, and almost the exact opposite on offense. It just doesn't wash that we have the athletes to play solid defense, rebound, block shots, and all of that, and then we're slow on the other end. That's what really doesn't make much sense to me, unless the guys are just losing their legs from the work on the defensive end, and it's affecting them on offense.

It's also kind of maddening that we can fix one problem, as in the turnovers were much better yesterday, and then we get outhustled on the boards and whatnot. It's like fixing a leaking dam, where you plug one hole and another one opens up.

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Last night a couple of guys said Woodson shouldn't be the coach and the AD needs fired 

FFS dude, you really need to accept that not everyone is going to think exactly like you do, and that there are going to be extreme outliers of opinions in pretty much any situation. As another poster noted, you just keep complaining about the same things over and over and over again. You found a couple of people caught up in the frustrations of the game, possibly fueled by alcohol, and you've turned that into "it's the fan's fault that the program is where it is," which is frankly kind of ridiculous. "A couple of guys" in a game thread does not equal the entire fanbase.

I guess because of people like you I have to amend my statement. The VAST MAJORITY of IU fans who aren't in the heat of the moment, who aren't trolling, and who are at least somewhat sober aren't calling for CMW's job.

I don't really see anyone pushing the panic button here. No one's calling for CMW's job, or wanted scholarships pulled, or anything like that. Some of us are just frustrated, and a part of that is we're seeing almost the exact same problems we saw with the previous coach, and the coach before that - in short, a perception of underachieving based on the talent that is on the floor. I expected a coach who played for RMK and has a long career in the NBA to put a team on the court that is mentally sound, and that doesn't seem to be happening, at least not yet. I expected some cohesive issues or struggles with a new system, etc. (the turnover issues weren't a big surprise, for example), but the lack of toughness has been unexpected, particularly with two seniors running the PG position. 

In short, this conference is going to chew this team up and spit it out if they don't get some mental fortitude, stat.

1 hour ago, rico said:

Meh.  What you call "overreactions" some might call "concern", "dissatisfaction", or even "passion."  Each to their own.

 

Exactly. There are a number of different ways to look at this loss, and none of them are really wrong. Yes, it's just one game, but it's certainly a significant step back from what we saw at Wisconsin, where we played one of the better halfs we've seen in a long, long time. In addition, we're clearly showing an issue down the stretch in games, whether it's guys getting tight, trying to do too much, or going soft. As others have noted, there are some serious holes in this team - Parker can shoot the lights out, but can't get open to do that, and he's pretty much useless outside of his ability to shoot, TJD still can't seem to finish around the rim, our basketball IQ is moronic at times (for example, Geronimo and Race both taking 3s in key situations early in the shot clock), FTs continue to be an issue, and on and on and on.

There's still time to turn things around this season, and I don't think anyone wants to fire CMW or anything crazy like that, but there are legitimate reasons to be concerned, too. It's a long season, but it's going to get really long if some of these things don't get fixed.

1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said:

We all are.  There are things about the culture of the program I just feel are broken right now.  That is hard to establish in one year with a host of new guys. 

We don't go out and win because none of these players have ever been part of a winning program.  They don't know how to do it IMO.

Yep, completely understand. It’s just difficult to watch how soft these guys are down the stretch, how they can’t knock down key FTs or finish in the lane, how they can’t get a stop when needed. I feel like we haven’t seen that culture since Sampson, which is just ridiculous. 

Instead of a coach, maybe this team just needs a therapist. 

So tired of losing games like this. So, so tired of it. 

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I thought Lander looked bigger this year. Almost taller and filling out some. His issues have been he just doesn't anticipate on defense or beat his man to the spot. Everyone knows what sets the other team is running...knows when a screen is coming and where his man wants to go. Either he is slow to react because he is lackadaisical or he doesn't fight through and over very well...but then he gets in bad position and ends up reaching or trying to contest shots that honestly it's just dumb plays. If he focused harder and worked harder at that end of the floor I think he would be fine.

There was an interesting comparison to Cassius Winston on another thread (or maybe this one?), so I guess his size isn't that much of an issue if he can figure out how to play defense. 

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Rob seems to play much more aggressive and better against lesser foes. Like he KNEW he could take his man tonight and finish. It just raised his confidence and in a game where we were in control he seemed to play free. Wish we'd get that same Rob in tighter/tougher games. It's like he has the schedule in his locker and knows which teams he is going to play differently against.

Jordan Jordan Jordan. Love his talent and athleticism and his heart. Will definitely develop into a fine player for us.....but his decision making is attrocious. Worst passer on the team and trying to dribble in traffic. Then he will show beautiful touch on a 3 or go up high to grab a rebound....or honestly Rob should have pitched it back for a monster jam on that fast break....like that stuff you salivate over with him. Still young so have to live with it.

Leal...getting better for sure. Would like to see him be aggressive to get past hard close outs and develop a little jumper. Defense is improving and he isn't a liability. If Galloway doesn't regress it deepens our bench when he comes back.

Bigs dominated...as they should against a small team. Like when they share and look for each other.

XJ...mostly pretty good from him. Obviously the most athletic guard on the court last night...could do what he wanted...but mostly stayed under control.

Lander.....not sure he is worth much of a mention. He is basically out of the rotation and I don't see him getting back into it given he can't even keep N Kentucky unathletic guards in front of him or defend them. Hope he keeps working and wants to stay and get better. He needs A LOT of work. Has the athleticism and court vision to be special...but doesn't have the focus and drive to narrow in on what is in front of him to defend. All talk on why he isn't playing ahead of Rob now seems foolish and should be put to bed. It's frustrating because I think we all see the potential in him...but only he will be able to do the work and put in the effort to get there. Hope it happens at IU and not somewhere else...but if it does...well that's on him.

Duncomb has a nice touch on his shot....think he is going to be a nice PF for us in the future! Maybe Kirk Haston like?? Would be nice to pair with a more athletic/shot blocking and low post presence in the future.

Does anyone know if Durr can dunk? Has it been confirmed....love the effort...good kid...wow wish he has an ounce of athleticism lol.

Well said, and pretty much agreed on all points. With respect to KL, I don't think I wanted him to play in front of Rob, but I wanted to see him get a few minutes, and I'm definitely understanding now why he hasn't. Both he and Jordan clearly have skills, but they're just very, very raw, and in KL's case, he really needs to put on some weight or something to be able to compete in a P5 conference. It's a roller coaster of emotions watching those two on the court.

Really good to see Rob getting some confidence and taking it strong to the bucket, but agreed that he needs to do that in the bigger games. We'll see if this continues on in conference play, because we need it.

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

I bow out.  

Im not triggered by haters.  

Hey man, have a great Holidays

*Shrug*. It's really not that important, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Happy holidays back at ya, mate!

6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Hate is strong but "female dogs be hating" is what we are talking about here.  This isn't racism hate or real hate.  "Haters" in the true sense of the word is those dogging on a person= haters.  Nothing neat as serious as actual hate.  Just my opinion.  

I didn't say anything about racism. WTH? And, yes, I'm familiar with how the term "haters" is used, I just think it's generally used by thin skinned people that can't take any sort of criticism, whether it's valid or not. 

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

We have one poster that literally said ship him back to pit just a few days ago

One. How many people are on this site? Thousands? Let's add in the handful of other people who have made extreme comments about XJ. You're still talking about less than 0.1% of fans. There's always going to be idiots on any fan site, but the overwhelming majority of IU fans don't hate XJ. I also get that this is nitpicky semantics, and apologies for taking it in that direction, but the word "haters" is generally used by people who either can't take constructive criticism, or want to exaggerate a situation for clicks.

Edit: Feel free to ignore this and continue discussing the actual content, and again, apologies for the tangent. I just hate the word hate, especially when it's used in this manner. 

54 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

The fact that there even is a thing as X haters is odd, he is a current IU player so no Hoosier fan should hate him. I can understand being frustrated at times with him but from the looks of this tweet when we win he is a big reason why.

The using of the word hate is ridiculous, and the usual click bait crap that passes as journalism these days. Most IU fans are good with XJ overall, and the ones that "hate" him just want him to play smarter or a little more under control. Could you say anyone on this board, or IU fans in general, truly hates XJ? Give me a break.

16 hours ago, rico said:

If Rob could knock down those mid range jumpers on a consistent basis he would increase our team's arsenal exponentially.

I feel like he's very close to breaking out a bit with his shooting, which could really open things up for him. Those mid range J's looked like they were both going down, but they just rimmed out, and he was able to knock down a 3, too. 

4 hours ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Early on Xavier scouting report is that when he drives to the rim, its slow to fast and his only option to layup.  He has not shown the ability, yet, to drive to the free throw line and below and make a decision to pass.  This is where all our pg's development needs, in my opinion.  I'm sure they are working on it, but in game time play, it doesn't yet become natural.  In the 4-1, you need the drive and dish as a tool to create.  IU, primarly, has to go inside out to create on the permiter (non sets and quick hitters).   There is no question that Kopp and Parker are light out shooters...they are not ones that will rip by the defender and be able to create consistently.  That is where the pg has to come in.  Now, the one that has shown flashes to do this is Lander.  However, the pressure D that Xavier and Rob can create outweight the Offense as D will keep you in every game.  

Looking forward to see if the pg can develop in this area.  It is not an easy skill to develop and one that sometimes has to start early in development.  Just some thoughts.

Completely agree. Once ND shut down the lob pass on drives, our guards seemed kind of lost on how to get the ball to the bigs. Rob did a nice job of pulling up for a couple of mid range jumpers, he just really needs to knock one or two down to get some confidence. 

32 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I don’t think ANYBODY has a complaint about XJ’s personality or aggressiveness, but if we’re just supposed to live with the poor shot selection and out of control tendencies because he brings the other positives, then we aren’t getting close to our potential this year. Somebody (coaching staff ?) has to get him to understand that we can be a REALLY good team if he makes better overall decisions. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with demanding that. If it’s simply “we have to live with the bad to get the good”, then we won’t go very far. Saw how that worked out with DG. It stinks for XJ because he’s already made us much better and deserves credit for that, but he’s also what’s holding us back from being REALLY good. 

Definitely agree that he needs to make better decisions and play smarter, but the attitude he is putting out there will help everyone across the board, and it’s one of the glaring things that has been missing from this team for years. I’ll also admit that i didn’t see much of his play at Pitt, so not sure if this is just who he is or if it can be harnessed. 
 

In addition, he’s not the only one that needs to clean up some things on the offensive end. Kopp and others (including XJ)  took some really bad 3s early in the shot clock, we had the usual handful of sloppy TOs, and we allowed ND to dictate tempo in general. But, yeah, agreed that if we can get more consistent play from XJ, this could be a very dangerous team. 

17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Going to be tough games.  Since UK is afraid of Indiana, we went and got KU.

Good. I get that you need to schedule some easy games to get guys confidence and pump up the win numbers for the NCAAT selection, but we're not going to play a single ranked team in non-con this year. And I get that we're tied into challenges and don't control some of that, but still ...

7 hours ago, Inequality said:

The RP bashing is ridiculous and unwarranted. A stellar student that does what the staff ask. The staff that didn’t recruit him at that. There isn’t a guard on the team right now that’s putting up an 18pt ave. But it’s pile on Rob because he’s in Landers way of playing time? Is it’s going to strengthen the pt argument if we convince others that he sucks? Good grief…

I've been an advocate for KL getting minutes, but I thought Rob was fine yesterday - showed some aggressiveness with drives on the offensive end, had a nice assist to TJD, and played his usual solid defense. But, man, he's getting wide open 3s and just can't knock them down. It's really weird, and I'm hoping that he'll hit one soon and maybe get some confidence, because I'm not sure there's a need to guard someone shooting 17% from 3 if he doesn't start hitting them. 

As for KL, he was ok. Didn't really do anything special or too terrible, but was good to see him on the court for a bit. I can't speak for others, but I just want to see what he can do, especially when Rob is struggling or the second team offense isn't crisp. I'm sure CMW is already seeing what KL can do in practice, hence the lack of minutes. *Shrug*. 

21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Lander is probably not seeing the court because of defense and not offense.

From my post that you quoted: “This has to be something more than just A/T ratio and his lack of D, especially when that negative A/T ratio is from such a small sample.”

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I agree, understand the post I was quoting though.  The offense, as a whole, isn't really better with Lander on the court. We don't just go put up gobs of points just because he's inserted. 

Literally no one has said this. But, in a situation where we're playing poor offensively, and we have a guy on the bench who can create some offense, why isn't he not just not getting in the game at all, but not even considered?

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But actually, while he was on the court in the first half, it wasn't bogged sudden at all.  2nd unit was playing fine, as a whole, offensively. 

Yes, which is why I specifically said in the second half. 

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I'm still sort of shocked that people are asking why someone with a negative AT ratio, as a PG, isn't getting more mins. I mean, it seems incredibly obvious to me why he hasn't playing. 

There's a difference between getting "more" minutes, which insinuates that he's getting some, and not getting any at all, and not even being considered for them. This has to be something more than just A/T ratio and his lack of D, especially when that negative A/T ratio is from such a small sample. He's going to get better, too. He's got good court vision and some other positive attributes, as you noted, he's a decent shooter. 

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Yes., as I've mentioned KL shoots the basketball better than RP does. I cannot argue that, obviously that isn't overvalued by our coaching staff because of the negatives that KL brings.  

Fair enough. I think a part of wanting to see KL play is how hard it is to watch Rob on offense, and it's hard to watch because it looks like it is mostly mental. I also forgot that these guys could play an extra year, though, so getting KL minutes may not be as important if both XJ and Rob stay another year. 

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

He isn't trying to make a point, at all. He wouldn't have played against SU either if the other two hadn't of fouled out. The other two have a better A:T ratio than KL does. 

That's pretty minimal when it comes to KL vs Rob: 10/11 vs 13/10 (not sure if that includes last night), and KL has better offensive numbers pretty much across the board outside of that. Rob's clearly a better defender, but our offense was pretty boggy for the whole second half, and KL brings a little more creativity and energy on that end IMO. Rob seems terrified to shoot or even drive when he's out there, and teams tend to follow their PG's lead. 

No one's saying KL was the answer, or that CMW is wrong for sitting him, because we don't know the whole story. It's just pretty glaring that in a game when we seemed to need someone, anyone, to create a shot or score, that he wasn't even considered as an option. 

55 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So after a half a day to look back, here's where I'm at...

Start at the 5:23 mark of the 2nd half...

Last night, down the stretch, XJ went 0-5 from the field, and 0-4 from the line...The rest of our leaders (Race, Trayce, and Stewart) went 1-6 from the floor and 0-2 from the line...Say what you want about Brad Davison, but when crunch time hit, he showed up, as did Johnny Davis...ours didn't...

That was the difference between winning and losing this game...

In the postgame, Coach Woody said, "I need to find a way to get these guys over the hump." Coach, these guys have been trying to get "over the hump" for 4 or 5 years now, and haven't got much to show for it...They don't know how to win a close game against a good team...at home or on the road...

Someone else mentioned that he was on XJ twice during the game, which I like, but it didn't get the results he wanted...He was actually worse afterwards...Kids, and people in general, are all motivated different ways...At the end of the game XJ seemed to want to prove something, and it just didn't work...

 

TBF, they had the same coach for all of those years. Let's see if CMW can figure out a way to get these guys to play 40 minutes, instead of 20, and to close out games. Maybe they need an "I'm sick and tired of losing to f****** Wisconsin!"  rant [insert angry RMK icon]. 

Let's put it this way - have we had a team in the last 20 years that has gone up there and ran Wisky off the court for a half? Usually, it's the other way around, so that could be seen as progress.