Kdug

1 hour ago, HoosierDom said:

Let this officially put an end to the May talk unless/until he has success with a bigger program. He's an Archie level hire.

I’m not someone who thinks May should be our top choice. But making a knee jerk reaction because of an OT loss is a terrible way to judge a coach. Whatever your opinion of him was before this game shouldn’t have changed.

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Respectfully, for real? 

100% you do since the buyout is considerably lower. Isn't it knocked down to 6 million on April 1st of next year? 

Not sure on the buyout. What would be your threshold?

Again, using this year’s Nebraska as a proxy. They are an 8 seed, tied for third in the conference, and 26th in kenpom. I don’t see how you could look at a year like that and move on - unless there was some really fluky stuff, the recruiting momentum was still poor, and we’re still consistently getting blown out. That’d be the highest IU kenpom rating since 2016.

If you don’t fire him after this year, I don’t see how you could fire him after a year like that.

5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Eek. Single digit seed? That's it? I personally think we need to be a 5 seed or better because we'll most likely be in the same situation next year: 6 or 7 spots will need to be filled though the portal. So, because essentially nothing is being built from the ground up with HS recruits, then Woody needs to prove that he can be a top 25 caliber team with 50% of the roster made up of transfers year in and year out. 

Woody made his bed. He must lie in it. If this portal heavy strategy doesn't work, he has nobody to blame but himself because he's already set himself to be in the same situation in 25-26. And nobody has the patience to wait until 26-27, not even QB or the SImons. 

 

I think top a 5 seed would be a good goal, I just think it’d be tough to fire him if we get something like an 8 seed. If next year IU has the same results as Nebraska did this year (disregarding style of play), do you really fire Woodson? I’d personally say no, assuming the other stuff I listed is true.

I don’t think we’re that far off, the difference between an 8/9 seed and a 5 seed is really just one or two wins. There’d be some nuance to all of this.

9 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I sincerely believe that if IU is back in the NCAAT next year, even in the First Four, Woodson will get year 5 and they'll be discussing a contract extension. The big money donors who support Woodson are firmly in control, it appears. 

I worry that you’re right, but hope that’s not the case. I don’t have confidence that we can even get to that level next year, but that’d be one of the worst possible outcomes.

At this point, it seems like Woodson is back for another year. I’m curious what everyone’s thoughts are on what next year would need to look like to not move on from Woodson after next year. This isn’t about whether you think it’ll happen or not, just what would be good enough for IU to keep Woodson.

IMO we’d need 3 things:

1. Single digit seed in the tourney. Imo sneaking in as a double digit seed isn’t good enough.

2. Some sort of recruiting momentum with high level guards/wings. Could be either HS or portal

3. More competitive in high level games. 15+ point blowout losses to good teams shouldn’t be the norm.

I think other things would need to happen in order to accomplish those goals, like changing the style of play. But imo, that should be the minimum for a coach in his 4th year at IU.

14 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Mutual interest between IU and Walker 

Not sure how he’d translate to IU, but he looks fast in his highlights.

6 hours ago, ledies22 said:

MR: 15.4 pts, 6 rebs, 2.7 ast, 2.8 TO, 68% FT, 59% FG on 11 attempts/gm, 33% 3p on 45 attempts, ORtg 109.2, DRtg 109

Raynaud: 15.5 pts, 9.6 rebs, 2.0 ast, 2.5 TO, 78% FT, 57% FG on 11 attempts/gm, 36% 3pt on 61 attempts, ORtg 113, DRtg 103

A +0.2 net ratings vs a +10 net rating is a pretty huge difference. Granted, individual defensive ratings are very noisy, but that plus rebounding are the biggest weaknesses for MR

35 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Dusty May could very well be a better coach than Mike Woodson.  But, he should NOT be in the top 3 on the IU candidate list.

Yes, his team made one magical run to the Final Four.  News flash.  They would not even be in this year's tournament if they had not done that.

Heck, you want to base it on one tournament run, then let's go hire Kevin Ollie.  He won the whole damn thing and look at where he is now.

 

Ollie is a little extreme, but agree with the premise. I don’t think Dusty May is the sure thing a lot of people seem to think he is. Would be happy if we ended up with him, but don’t think he’s the type of coach you make decisions based on what he is or isn’t rumored to be doing.

1 hour ago, SawatchHoosier said:

 

Some other players we've contacted

• Tre Dinkins, 6'2" Canisius  Mis-reported thanks for the info @DC2345

• Amari Williams, 6' 10" Drexel

 

• Jackie Moon, 6'2" Fort Wayne

• Dakota Leffew, 6'5" MSM

• Frankie Fidler, 6'7" Omaha

 

I don’t care about his stats, we need Jackie Moon

15 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Not saying that this was the entire reason Liam transferred, but I'm sure it was a factor. 

MM potentially coming back is a good thing though. A sophomore MM is probably better than a Freshman McNeely.

...BUT even better would've been MM at the 4 and McNeely at the 3 (who cares about rebounds). lol. 

Yeah, the last sentence is spot on. MM at his natural position and then we would’ve had two outside threats. I think MM could be a solid rebounder at the 4, the issue would be Malik isn’t a good rebounder and he’d be pushed to the 5. Not sure any of that matters too much since we were a bad rebounding team this year despite having Ware, who was great.

I actually think McNeely is probably a better wing than MM next year, but MM is the better player if he’s playing the 4.

2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i really am curious in people's updated wish list as we go.  i know it's early, so it will change often.  seems like right now (not necessarily in order):

AJ Casey

Christian Watson

Lee Dort

Koren Johnson

Michael Ajayi

Jacob Crews

Nils Cooper

Marcus Foster

Jakobi Gillespie

Jalen Blackmon

 

Would we want all of those guys if we can get them?

I don’t know much about any of these guys, but a lot of them have impressive numbers. Any guard who can shoot is a yes for me.

What’s the deal with the first 3 guys? None of them seem very impressive outside of being bench players on power conference teams

33 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So will the approach be go out right away and get guys in the portal or wait for some better players to enter after they are eliminated. I want guys from winning programs who know what it takes to win.

Another thing is how our fans react when our first commit might he from a mid major even though he might be a bench player.

I’m honestly fine with getting productive mid major players, as long as it includes guys who are wings/guards who were productive from the perimeter. Last season we clearly needed guard help after the season, and we went and added two centers and two power forwards. If we do that again, even if they’re talented players, it’ll be hard to have faith that next season will be any better.

7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Why do you think we had a good percentage last year? Do you think Galloway and X were among the top shooters in the country? To me it's obvious that we had good numbers because we didn't shoot many. We took the open ones and passed up the rest. Most of the open ones were open because teams had to pack the paint against TJD. 

 

We’ll just agree to disagree. When I see a coach run the exact same system 3 years in a row with different personnel, I take that as the style he wants to play. It doesn’t take more time than that to establish a system. There are actions and words for determining what a coach wants to do. Both indicate that Woodson is happy with the style of play. Recruits obviously are seeing and hearing the same thing considering all the wings, including McNeally, that opted to go elsewhere.

To add - if you need one of the top shooters in the country to be effective from the perimeter, then that coach clearly doesn’t understand modern basketball. 

1 minute ago, HoosierDom said:

Again, what system do you run with the guards/wing we have had? Do you not play through the guys who are your best offensive players by a large margin?

What is he supposed to say in his press conference? "I don't want to play this way, but my guys suck"? To me, his comments have always indicated that he was going to run that system because with that roster, it's all he sees fit to do. I don't see anything in his comments to suggest he would run that system with Golden State, or even Nebraska, but he will run it with this year's IU.

 

More high ball screens, pick and pop with Ware (who shot 42% from 3), or literally anything so teams couldn’t just pack the paint. Last year we were one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country, but we still were in the bottom 10 in 3 point attempts. So it clearly doesn’t matter who we have on the wings, Woodson doesn’t value 3 pointers and wants to pound it inside at all cost.

7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

I don't want to come across as a Woodson defender, I'm not - if I were in charge, I would do everything I could to hire Bruce Pearl, but I don't understand why people think they know what offensive system Woody wants to run.

He inherited an all-American big man, and no guards worth playing. He went out and got an aggressive, up-tempo pg and a shooter with size. Neither of those guys turned into guys that can win the conference, but that's who he sought out. That was before the age of the transfer, so options were limited. Was he supposed to run an offense that featured guards that were barely playing at a power 5 level or go through his superstar? That doesn't tell me anything about how he wants to play, it just tells me he's smart enough to play to a strength.

His biggest recruits have been a big pg who could create shots, and, before he decommitted, a shooter with size. His other big win was a big man who fell in his lap - was he supposed to turn that down? He tried to get scorers from the wing and guard, he just failed. I'm all for criticizing him for that, but I don't get how you can judge his system.

His decision this year was to get the ball to his NBA big man rather than what? Have Leal and Galloway rain 10 3's a game? Have X and Gunn create off the dribble? That's not going to work. Again, want to criticize him for not having better options, I think you should, but I don't see how we can think we know what next year's offense will look like. 

Taking a quick look around the league, I see 9 teams, probably 10 (I don't know Illinois well enough to judge some of their guys) that have a starting pg that is unquestionably better than X. And that's for the half the games X played. For the other half, we had the worst pg in the league. It's hard to win with that. It's even harder to do anything other than throw the ball in the paint. Again, you want to criticize Woody for putting us in that situation? Great, as do I, but, if you want to say based on that, you know what we're going to do on offense next year? I don't see any logic in that.

I feel pretty confident on what Woodson wants to run since he’s run the exact same system for all 3 years, and the fact that Mike Woodson himself said he was happy with the way the offense was run, the team just needed to make more shots. Even with getting Ware last year, he could’ve gone for different transfers to run a different system instead of getting Sparks and Walker.

7 minutes ago, ButlerHoosier said:

Ahh ok I understand a little better now. Still I would have traded some of the talent that we had at the PF  away to have TJD at the PF position. 

I think both TJD and the pacers are in good spots. Chris Paul is the perfect pg he could be playing alongside. It feels like half of his highlights are him and CP running a 2 man game leading to lobs.

1 minute ago, MrsStoller said:

 

Interesting choice. Wonder if they got turned down by the top candidates or if they actually wanted Diebler. That’s putting a lot of faith in a 8 game resume.

37 minutes ago, Officer Obie said:

I'm talking about the last 10-20 years. Anyway, Coach Woodson swung for the fences and struck out. Badly. He forgot, or didn't realize, that IU isn't the place top recruits want to be anymore. IU needs a Ty Cobb. Hit a single, and if the fates are kind, turn it into a double. Then sit down on the bag and sharpen your spikes before stealing third. That's how you win. Small ball ain't glamorous, but it wins.

I don’t think that’s true that top recruits don’t want to go to IU. Top recruits don’t want to go to IU as long as we play the way we have been. If you put a coach that played a modern style of basketball, I’d bet we’d do great in recruiting with how good our NIL is.

6 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Probably true.  Does ISU have any Temple level bad losses?

Yeah, their home loss vs Illinois State is actually worse than neutral vs Temple.

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

 

 

Indiana State Net - 30

FAU Net - 33

BEFORE the loss to Temple.

Think the Arizona win probably keeps FAU above ISU. ISU just doesn’t really have any good wins. Their best win is probably at Bradley.

14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

FAU falls to NET 198 Temple

I think FAU is still in, but they really went downhill since that Arizona win. It looked like they might be able to compete for a protected seed, now it looks like they could be in the play in game or at least a double digit seed. They really were unimpressive in conference.

Just now, 02Hoosier said:

Edey doesn’t foul remember? I’m sure we’ll have the misfortune of having our resident boiler fans here in about an hour to remind us that.

It’s absolutely wild watching every other team, including NBA games, then watching big ten officials in Purdue games. It might as well just be a different rule book.

Edey just trucked over Wahl and it’s somehow a foul on Wahl?

1 minute ago, John S said:

Ware. 5 shots. 2 pts.   How would he survive in the NBA?

NBA players have bad games too. He’s been pretty consistently great for the last month before this game.

1 minute ago, NWOHoosier said:

I know offense looks worse when shots don’t go in but the offense is especially stagnant tonight. I don’t know……..maybe some movement would help. A team with a pulse is going to attack the big men like crazy because of:

1. Poor shooting

2.  Terrible passing out of the post

3. No movement AT ALL. 
 

It is the 33rd game right. Nebraska’s shooting is crazy but IUs offense is beyond pitiful. Just wow. 

It feels the lack of movement is especially noticeable tonight when contrasted against Nebraska’s constant movement.