Can NIL solve an Oversign issue?

[Bustout]

Let’s say one or both of these visitors commit this week.  Instead of paying for their scholarship and forcing kids out, could they be considered walk-ons … while IU works an NIL deal for them?   
 

I don’t know any of the rules on NIL, but is that a potential loophole?

Sorry if already brought up!

Edited April 19, 2022 by Bustout

[go_iu_bb]

I'm sure it could be done but I just find it highly unlikely. The amount left over after paying for things that scholarship players get paid (tuition, books, housing, food, stipend, etc) would probably have to be significantly higher than the player would make at another school with a scholarship plus NIL money.

[Artesian_86]

....Good question! I, like you don't understand the NCAA rules and legalities associated with this, but it does have a lot of merit.

[Purdue7]

Not sure the ncaa knows the rules 

 

serious question:  will the ncaa exist in 5-10 years?  It’s basically semi-pro basketball already.  

[5fouls]

Personally, if I was a player, I would be pretty upset if I was asked to consider this.  Now, it's entirely possible I would not have any other options with comparable programs and would feel compelled to take the opportunity.  But, it would stay in my mind all season and could affect my attitude and play.

[Madison22]

Eventually, this will all be a simple salary negotiation between lawyers.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Madison22

[Hoosierfan1215]

14 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

Not sure the ncaa knows the rules 

 

serious question:  will the ncaa exist in 5-10 years?  It’s basically semi-pro basketball already.  

 I mean it’s uncontrollable now anyway. What do they even do? They have made it a business for players now. Whether we agree or disagree on it being good or bad, besides the ncaa tournament as the thing connecting these teams and setting down some rules it’s a joke of an organization anymore with no consistency across anychain besides do what they can to make more money.

[GaloisGroupe]

To be honest, with the extra COVID year AND with NIL causing more players to return to college, there has to be a serious scholarship crunch for the next couple of years. Players that would have scholarships easily under normal circumstances are going to have to find alternatives. 

Honestly, they should have increased the number of scholarships to 14 until COVID year crunch is over. 

[Artesian_86]

52 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Personally, if I was a player, I would be pretty upset if I was asked to consider this.  Now, it's entirely possible I would not have any other options with comparable programs and would feel compelled to take the opportunity.  But, it would stay in my mind all season and could affect my attitude and play.

I thought about this too, but it quite possibly could be a very logical and temporary fix. For example, you have seniors returning to play their last year of eligibility as well as using their allotted scholarship money. Maybe a coach can get a guy to come in as a preferred walk on as well as some NIL money. That incoming player might be told that he could be grabbing scholarship money the next year after the senior graduates. I don't know.... I'm sure it's not that easy....Just a thought. lol

Edited April 19, 2022 by Artesian_86

[btownqb]

What issue is there with the over sign? 

[Seeking6]

14 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

Eventually, signing with a college will be a simple employment / salary negotiation between lawyers.

Hope so! I'm probably going to get myself into trouble saying this but oh well. Taft Law has long been one of IU's law firms they use. They were responsible for digging up the dirt on Wilson and making him accept the reduced buyout. It's no surprise why our former AD is working there now.

I think every proactive university (we are one of them) is way out in front of NIL and legal ramifications....and getting to my point. If you have legal help for your athletes and you can show that to recruits all the better. They feel protected. Having Glass on our side still is a very, very good thing moving into these waters. 

Some of these P5 schools (even in our own conference) are going to be left behind because they don't have the team/support system/legal advice already setup. 

[FKIM01]

22 minutes ago, Madison22 said:

Eventually, signing with a college will be a simple employment / salary negotiation between lawyers.

THIS.

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

Honestly if i was a player, I wouldn’t care.  Costs would be covered either way and I could be making some extra as well.

[FKIM01]

25 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Personally, if I was a player, I would be pretty upset if I was asked to consider this.  Now, it's entirely possible I would not have any other options with comparable programs and would feel compelled to take the opportunity.  But, it would stay in my mind all season and could affect my attitude and play.

That would depend a lot on the magnitude of the NIL I was offered.  What if it's $100K/year?

The whole thing is nuts and is essentially the end of amateur sports as we know it.  Schools will have more or less club teams where players are compensated based on contracts.  That's the can of worms the NIL opened, but at this point...it is what it is.  Scholarships are headed for the dust bin of meaningless.

[FKIM01]

4 minutes ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

Honestly if i was a player, I wouldn’t care.  Costs would be covered either way and I could be making some extra as well.

My point exactly.  In ten years, there won't be scholarships at all and it's very much questionable whether players will even be required to attend classes.

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

That would depend a lot on the magnitude of the NIL I was offered.  What if it's $100K/year?

The whole thing is nuts and is essentially the end of amateur sports as we know it.  Schools will have more or less club teams where players are compensated based on contracts.  That's the can of worms the NIL opened, but at this point...it is what it is.  Scholarships are headed for the dust bin of meaningless.

I'm just glad we get to catch up. Sucks that we kicked the crap out of teams for a better part of 2 decades with Knight.....and his doing it the right way has cost us the last 20 years or so which I'm fine with because I never wanted to be UK or Kansas.

With NIL.....we finally get a chance to get an invitation to join the party again. Power of the fans/alumni/donors will be one of the 4-5 most valuable recruiting tools. 

[Coach Robby]

22 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

My point exactly.  In ten years, there won't be scholarships at all and it's very much questionable whether players will even be required to attend classes.

It’s already not required at UNC, hasn't been for years. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Coach Robby

[KoB2011]

I think it’s probably legal but incredibly unlikely to happen. If we are over the scholarship limit someone is probably moving on.

The one exception might be TJD withdrawals from the draft and it puts us over, so he decides to use his considerable NIL money to pay his own way rather than forcing a teammate to do so. Even that seems like a stretch but much more likely than someone like Leal doing it. 

[FKIM01]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think it’s probably legal but incredibly unlikely to happen. If we are over the scholarship limit someone is probably moving on.

The one exception might be TJD withdrawals from the draft and it puts us over, so he decides to use his considerable NIL money to pay his own way rather than forcing a teammate to do so. Even that seems like a stretch but much more likely than someone like Leal doing it. 

I'd agree...if anyone does it, it's probably someone like Trayce, who IIRC, recently got a pretty large NIL contract...actually two contracts now that I think about it, although I heard nothing about he size of the Penzoil piece.  Unlikely, but can't discount it when IU is still recruiting for next season while being full up on scholarships.  Maybe no one else adds, maybe someone walks or maybe this scenario becomes reality.

[BGleas]

I don’t see this happening, if at all. Money is still money and people don't like to give it up when they don't have too. 

Athletes are sometimes the most like that. They always want free stuff and to get theirs while they can since the window to capitalize isn't as long. 

I can't see a player offering to pay their own way, dipping into their own pocket, when they don't have too. Why would you give up a scholarship which would take money out of your NIL deals? 

I just don't see it happening, and that didn't even get into playing time when you have 14-15 scholarship-quality players. 

[GaloisGroupe]

Just now, BGleas said:

I don’t see this happening, if at all. Money is still money and people don't like to give it up when they don't have too. 

Athletes are sometimes the most like that. They always want free stuff and to get theirs while they can since the window to capitalize isn't as long. 

I can't see a player offering to pay their own way, dipping into their own pocket, when they don't have too. Why would you give up a scholarship which would take money out of your NIL deals? 

I just don't see it happening, and that didn't even get into playing time when you have 14-15 scholarship-quality players. 

BUT if: 

              NIL at School A - Cost of not having scholarship at School A > NIL at School B

Then it would make financial sense to go to School A anyway. Although the money is not explicitly tied to a school... it kind of is.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t see this happening, if at all. Money is still money and people don't like to give it up when they don't have too. 

Athletes are sometimes the most like that. They always want free stuff and to get theirs while they can since the window to capitalize isn't as long. 

I can't see a player offering to pay their own way, dipping into their own pocket, when they don't have too. Why would you give up a scholarship which would take money out of your NIL deals? 

I just don't see it happening, and that didn't even get into playing time when you have 14-15 scholarship-quality players. 

I mean I agree, I don’t think any scenario where this happens is likely at all.

I feel like I make pretty good money and I like my coworkers, I can’t imagine a scenario where I give up $25-30k just to keep working with them. People usually are great at being altruistic with money when it’s not their money. 

[FKIM01]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don’t see this happening, if at all. Money is still money and people don't like to give it up when they don't have too. 

Athletes are sometimes the most like that. They always want free stuff and to get theirs while they can since the window to capitalize isn't as long. 

I can't see a player offering to pay their own way, dipping into their own pocket, when they don't have too. Why would you give up a scholarship which would take money out of your NIL deals? 

I just don't see it happening, and that didn't even get into playing time when you have 14-15 scholarship-quality players. 

I'd agree it's unlikely today, but having heard of professional players take pay cuts to join super teams and knowing that IU has had players under Knight pay their own way for various reasons, you can't rule it out.  I don't see anyone here arguing that it's likely, but in the brave new world of NIL, I don't think you can rule out any number of creative solutions.  Could be as simple as company A telling a player like Trayce, "Here's an NIL deal for $50-100K and if coach Woodson oversigns, we'll add a bonus to cover your tuition, room & board so he can add a shooter to free up the lane for you to operate.  How's that sound?"  Trayce wouldn't give up a dime in that scenario as the scholarship bonus only comes into play if the team oversigns.

I mean, I think the NIL kind of ruins the game for purists, frankly.  I like the traditional model, but that genie is out of the bottle and I see a slippery slope that ends up evolving into more of a European-style club team with contracts and little thought toward academics.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the NCAA being able to stop it at this point.

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

Honestly if i was a player, I wouldn’t care.  Costs would be covered either way and I could be making some extra as well.

Player A and Player B both get a $50,000 NIL deal.  Player A has a scholly.  Player B does not.  

Which player is likely to be happier with their situation?

[FKIM01]

7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Player A and Player B both get a $50,000 NIL deal.  Player A has a scholly.  Player B does not.  

Which player is likely to be happier with their situation?

Player A gets a $100,000 NIL deal and player B gets a $50,000 NIL deal and a scholarship.  I think that's the scenario Paulie was playing out.