milehiiu Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Muddy River said: Uh, Tom Crean's teams consistently beat top 5 teams in Assembly Hall.....just sayin' Love ya. However, need to remind everyone that Tom Crean's teams, his first three seasons went 1, 4 and 3 in wins. Hardly consistent in beating top 5 teams. Now, I have always claimed to being a Crean supporter. And I agree he took over a dumpster fire. But the word consistent just does not ring true for me, considering what he left Archie with for this season. Given time... I really believe Archie will be the one to truly be the one to consistently beat top 5 teams, not only in AH, but on the road. Give Archie a full recruiting cycle, before casting a shadow.... IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 52 minutes ago, Muddy River said: Look, I get that we are talking about this team, and I only posted that comment to have a little fun, but to be fair, when we beat those top 5 teams at home, we were not the "Favorite", so by definition, he did get more from less in those games. We were favored in a lot of those games. The only two I can think of that we were underdogs by a significant margin was the UK game the UW game. We all know how good the team that beat UK ended up being and the team that beat UW did have two McDonald's AA. I would say the UW upset is the only one truly comparable to what we've done this season against top 5 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: We were favored in a lot of those games. The only two I can think of that we were underdogs by a significant margin was the UK game the UW game. We all know how good the team that beat UK ended up being and the team that beat UW did have two McDonald's AA. I would say the UW upset is the only one truly comparable to what we've done this season against top 5 teams. I thought we'd beat UK and I'm as pessimistic as anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, milehiiu said: Love ya. However, need to remind everyone that Tom Crean's teams, his first three seasons went 1, 4 and 3 in wins. Hardly consistent in beating top 5 teams. Now, I have always claimed to being a Crean supporter. And I agree he took over a dumpster fire. But the word consistent just does not ring true for me, considering what he left Archie with for this season. Given time... I really believe Archie will be the one to truly be the one to consistently beat top 5 teams, not only in AH, but on the road. Give Archie a full recruiting cycle, before casting a shadow.... IMHO. As long as we are reminding everyone for historical accuracy, I feel it should be noted that after those first three years, Tom Crean's home record against the top 25 was 16-2. Where I come from, that's pretty consistent. I'm certain we were not favored in all of those as we spent a lot of time unranked. Everyone complains about what he left Archie with, but I have no reason to believe RoJo and Newkirk wouldn't be performing at a much higher level if Crean was still here. That is the system they came to play for, not Archies. I believe our shooting would be better, and our defense and turnovers would be worse. That said, I love Archie, I'm glad he's here, but I see no reason to constantly talk down Crean's tenure, especially when he has been so pro IU even after his firing. I posted the original comment on a whim, but it clearly struck a nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Muddy River said: As long as we are reminding everyone for historical accuracy, I feel it should be noted that after those first three years, Tom Crean's home record against the top 25 was 16-2. Where I come from, that's pretty consistent. I'm certain we were not favored in all of those as we spent a lot of time unranked. Everyone complains about what he left Archie with, but I have no reason to believe RoJo and Newkirk wouldn't be performing at a much higher level if Crean was still here. That is the system they came to play for, not Archies. I believe our shooting would be better, and our defense and turnovers would be worse. That said, I love Archie, I'm glad he's here, but I see no reason to constantly talk down Crean's tenure, especially when he has been so pro IU even after his firing. I posted the original comment on a whim, but it clearly struck a nerve. All good points. Its very easy to 'bash' the passing era as the new one is upon us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Muddy River said: As long as we are reminding everyone for historical accuracy, I feel it should be noted that after those first three years, Tom Crean's home record against the top 25 was 16-2. Where I come from, that's pretty consistent. I'm certain we were not favored in all of those as we spent a lot of time unranked. Everyone complains about what he left Archie with, but I have no reason to believe RoJo and Newkirk wouldn't be performing at a much higher level if Crean was still here. That is the system they came to play for, not Archies. I believe our shooting would be better, and our defense and turnovers would be worse. That said, I love Archie, I'm glad he's here, but I see no reason to constantly talk down Crean's tenure, especially when he has been so pro IU even after his firing. I posted the original comment on a whim, but it clearly struck a nerve. Good post, but I also I also don't think it's fair to ignore years two and three for sake of this particular discussion. Those were the years Crean didn't have multiple NBA guys and McD AAs, much like this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Muddy River said: As long as we are reminding everyone for historical accuracy, I feel it should be noted that after those first three years, Tom Crean's home record against the top 25 was 16-2. Where I come from, that's pretty consistent. I'm certain we were not favored in all of those as we spent a lot of time unranked. Everyone complains about what he left Archie with, but I have no reason to believe RoJo and Newkirk wouldn't be performing at a much higher level if Crean was still here. That is the system they came to play for, not Archies. I believe our shooting would be better, and our defense and turnovers would be worse. That said, I love Archie, I'm glad he's here, but I see no reason to constantly talk down Crean's tenure, especially when he has been so pro IU even after his firing. I posted the original comment on a whim, but it clearly struck a nerve. I posted last year on the old site that if you take away the first three year's of Crean's tenure he had about at 550 winning percentage. If I remember correctly the percentage went down even further if you took out all of the cupcakes he played. Although we might of been 16-2 against top 25 teams we were horrible against the other non cupcake schools. To me that pretty much states that Crean's coaching and recruiting style was never going to lead to consistent growth or a team that was mentally tough and that our opponents feared. I appreciate and respect the job that Crean did when he got here. He was the right person for the job at that time but he was never going to take us to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, jefftheref said: If I remember correctly the percentage went down even further if you took out all of the cupcakes he played. Wouldn't that be the case for literally every coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, Muddy River said: Wouldn't that be the case for literally every coach? Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 39 minutes ago, jefftheref said: Good point. Except for the B1G cupcakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Muddy River said: As long as we are reminding everyone for historical accuracy, I feel it should be noted that after those first three years, Tom Crean's home record against the top 25 was 16-2. Where I come from, that's pretty consistent. I'm certain we were not favored in all of those as we spent a lot of time unranked. Everyone complains about what he left Archie with, but I have no reason to believe RoJo and Newkirk wouldn't be performing at a much higher level if Crean was still here. That is the system they came to play for, not Archies. I believe our shooting would be better, and our defense and turnovers would be worse. That said, I love Archie, I'm glad he's here, but I see no reason to constantly talk down Crean's tenure, especially when he has been so pro IU even after his firing. I posted the original comment on a whim, but it clearly struck a nerve. Exactly, it's well past sad the people that feel the need to continually bash Crean at every opportunity, especially when doing so is taking away from appreciating the effort the team put into this game. The truth of the matter is Crean left IU a lot better off than when he got here. It sucks that he couldn't do more and it sucks that the current team is a mis-matched hodgepodge of players built to play a completely different style than Archie runs but it has a hell of lot more talent than Crean's first team. Also, for those using this "moral" victory as a chance to bash Crean, one of Crean's early teams, with far less talent than the current IU team, was a few clanked Jeremiah Rivers freethrows from beating a much more talented MSU at Breslin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 hours ago, jefftheref said: I posted last year on the old site that if you take away the first three year's of Crean's tenure he had about at 550 winning percentage. If I remember correctly the percentage went down even further if you took out all of the cupcakes he played. Although we might of been 16-2 against top 25 teams we were horrible against the other non cupcake schools. To me that pretty much states that Crean's coaching and recruiting style was never going to lead to consistent growth or a team that was mentally tough and that our opponents feared. I appreciate and respect the job that Crean did when he got here. He was the right person for the job at that time but he was never going to take us to the next level. Crean's winning percentage at IU including the first 3 years was 551 and taking away the first 3 years raises it .667. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverrat Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Speaking of taking away, if you take away all the blocked shots against msu, we really shot closer to 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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