Transfers with IU Interest

[IU247]

30 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Im not sure who would be in the office tonight. Kenya, Ya, Walsh, and Hulls are all on the road. 

A ghost?

[Coach Robby]

51 minutes ago, IU247 said:

A ghost?

Billy Donovan

[Indykev]

4 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Im not sure who would be in the office tonight. Kenya, Ya, Walsh, and Hulls are all on the road. 

Yes came back on to say 2 more coaches cars parked by cook hall at 1am. They are on the road some where.

[DC2345]

3 hours ago, Indykev said:

Yes came back on to say 2 more coaches cars parked by cook hall at 1am. They are on the road some where.

First live evaluation period started yesterday. Ya and Kenya were in Atlanta while Hulls and Walsh were in Iowa. 

[IUCrazy2]

12 hours ago, Initial79 said:

Look, we have the other thread but I’m telling you guys this is clear. Even people like Ant Wright are like WTH on Twitter right now. 

I was very confident Ledlum wanted IU and everyone else too. I even made that call clearly. He was 99% in. Almost didn’t do Tennessee visit. 

He does and bam. you tell me what flipped him. No, it wasn’t under the table payments or play style. He is too smart for that. He liked all they have to offer athletes more. It is impressive.

FYI.. they had a huge orange and white game that weekend and I happened to be in Knoxville. The whole freaking city was going. (good football team and campus life around football and fyi… he almost chose to play football instead in college.)

then, I could see him and Knecht talking at the game. “IU? - “I loved it but man, but this is different. IU is very nice and better than where either of us came from but not this.”

oh… they also have been better than us for years now in the court.

we can win head to head with these schools once results are consistent. We can’t right now when we don’t have anything major to offer. The package is not that nice competitively. Don’t believe it or do.

Reality is as some have said, you would chose the nba coach, the history, the top college town etc. they are not you. Why do you think there has been an arms race to make everything crazy nice for athletes at these schools? 

lastly, you think this hurts BB. It kills our football. 

I honestly barely care anymore.  I make good money and some of these guys make more than me already, they live in an environment way better than I did at college, have access to facilities and amenities we would have dreamed of when we were eating Ramen and Chef Boyardee, and they want more.  Honestly, I am almost kind of out on all this stuff.  It is a colossal waste of money when the median IU-B student is walking away from school with $20k in debt.

These kids are worse than pros if this is what is driving everything.  Go elsewhere, at this point I am almost rooting for them to kill the goose that laid their golden egg.

[Mike]

19 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I honestly barely care anymore.  I make good money and some of these guys make more than me already, they live in an environment way better than I did at college, have access to facilities and amenities we would have dreamed of when we were eating Ramen and Chef Boyardee, and they want more.  Honestly, I am almost kind of out on all this stuff.  It is a colossal waste of money when the median IU-B student is walking away from school with $20k in debt.

These kids are worse than pros if this is what is driving everything.  Go elsewhere, at this point I am almost rooting for them to kill the goose that laid their golden egg.

Amen to that!!

[btownqb]

19 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I honestly barely care anymore.  I make good money and some of these guys make more than me already, they live in an environment way better than I did at college, have access to facilities and amenities we would have dreamed of when we were eating Ramen and Chef Boyardee, and they want more.  Honestly, I am almost kind of out on all this stuff.  It is a colossal waste of money when the median IU-B student is walking away from school with $20k in debt.

These kids are worse than pros if this is what is driving everything.  Go elsewhere, at this point I am almost rooting for them to kill the goose that laid their golden egg.

I really don't want to talk about the state of college basketball in this thread, but.. there's a lot here that is so correct. 

A giant waste of money was a great point. 

[Zuckerkorn]

I'm halfway through listening to the latest Assembly Call podcast and they've done a very good job of analyzing our portal performance and current roster needs.  No sugar-coating and no doom & gloom, just a measured take on where we sit at this time.

One point that was raised was interesting: regarding recruiting wing players, we can't really show them video or evidence of how they would be used - only a vision of how a new system or style of play is intended.  Additionally, competing coaches can point to this and use it against us.  It's kind of a chicken and the egg situation.  I'm paraphrasing heavily BTW.

 

[IUCrazy2]

This is a dumb question that maybe noone knows the answer to, but does anyone know how much this stuff even gets used?  Like I know that the weight room and practice court at Cook get used, but stuff like the lounge and pool table...or like the hot tub they had at Tennessee that looked like it could fit about 5 guys before it got weird when it serves a program that has 70ish?+ members, how often are guys even showing up for that stuff?

It is like the apartment complex that has the really nice clubhouse that you used to only go to in order to pay rent.  It is one of those nice perks that nobody uses.  I would lay money that is what most of the extras at all these schools do.  Places that look good when a recruit comes but nobody is using.

And it is a race you never win.  That is why I have argued that the athletic departments could make 50% more money and it wouldn't matter to the school at large at all because the money all gets dumped right back to the athletes because someone has always one upped you.  If you have the best this year, someone is going to replace you next.

ETA:  I also want to say that if a guy like Ledlum was swayed by that stuff, then I don't think that is the attitude that is going to work here.  He has like one year to get to the NBA and if that is where his head is at, well, best of luck young fella...you will need it.

Edited April 22, 2023 by IUCrazy2

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I'm halfway through listening to the latest Assembly Call podcast and they've done a very good job of analyzing our portal performance and current roster needs.  No sugar-coating and no doom & gloom, just a measured take on where we sit at this time.

One point that was raised was interesting: regarding recruiting wing players, we can't really show them video or evidence of how they would be used - only a vision of how a new system or style of play is intended.  Additionally, competing coaches can point to this and use it against us.  It's kind of a chicken and the egg situation.  I'm paraphrasing heavily BTW.

 

I thought about that a little the day Ledlum committed to Tennesee...We can show 50 hours of playing through Trayce, but our lack of modern day wing play makes tape on that important point basically nonexistent

[tdhoosier]

39 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I honestly barely care anymore.  I make good money and some of these guys make more than me already, they live in an environment way better than I did at college, have access to facilities and amenities we would have dreamed of when we were eating Ramen and Chef Boyardee, and they want more.  Honestly, I am almost kind of out on all this stuff.  It is a colossal waste of money when the median IU-B student is walking away from school with $20k in debt.

These kids are worse than pros if this is what is driving everything.  Go elsewhere, at this point I am almost rooting for them to kill the goose that laid their golden egg.

When somebody is smarter, has charisma, has a unique skill, is a hard working entrepreneur then most have no problem that they make ‘more money than I do’. But if it’s a pro athlete with a unique skill then ‘they don’t deserve it’. And if it’s a young adult, it’s ‘even worse’? Worse because they are making money off a unique skill they have? A revenue generating skill that used to be taken by another entity? So, making money on your God-given talents is acceptable in almost every other instance, except in sports? I guess, I just don’t understand the distinction and have a very hard time agreeing with this point of view.

 

 

[BGleas]

18 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I'm halfway through listening to the latest Assembly Call podcast and they've done a very good job of analyzing our portal performance and current roster needs.  No sugar-coating and no doom & gloom, just a measured take on where we sit at this time.

One point that was raised was interesting: regarding recruiting wing players, we can't really show them video or evidence of how they would be used - only a vision of how a new system or style of play is intended.  Additionally, competing coaches can point to this and use it against us.  It's kind of a chicken and the egg situation.  I'm paraphrasing heavily BTW.

 

I honestly don't think the style of how wings will be used is that big of a deal or not having tape, etc. 

These guys, both coaches and players, are basketball savvy enough to understand the roster Woodson took over, etc. It's a pretty simple spin to, 'hey, I molded my system to my roster for the success of the team." I think a player would love that. 

I also think he can show tape of his NBA style, which would actually be a big win. 

All this to say, I don't think what the AC guys were saying on that point is really any issue at all. 

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, Indykev said:

Yes came back on to say 2 more coaches cars parked by cook hall at 1am. They are on the road some where.

Sounds like they parked their cars and caught a ride to the airport. 🤷‍♂️

[IUCrazy2]

10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

When somebody is smarter, has charisma, has a unique skill, is a hard working entrepreneur then most have no problem that they make ‘more money than I do’. But if it’s a pro athlete with a unique skill then ‘they don’t deserve it’. And if it’s a young adult, it’s ‘even worse’? Worse because they are making money off a unique skill they have? A revenue generating skill that used to be taken by another entity? So, making money on your God-given talents is acceptable in almost every other instance, except in sports? I guess, I just don’t understand the distinction and have a very hard time agreeing with this point of view.

 

 

I think it is the combination of a basically professional sports league with a state college that is constantly begging people to give it more money.  

If they think there is a real market for these guys to be pros, expand the G League and let them have at it.  The core mission of the schools would continue without the high end athletics....I am not watching that G League and I would lay money that they wouldn't be worth much more than minor league baseball teams, but they are free to separate it out.

To put it another way, the Indiana Pacers aren't calling me to pay Myles Turner's salary.  If they had to set up collectives to pay players, that would signal to me that the NBA didn't really have a supportable model for their league.  Just like the NCAA doesn't.  They can't pay the players and make sure that they all have a hot tub and pay for all the non revenue sports on top of it.  The vast, vast majority of the players aren't worth anything (from an athletic standpoint) without the school name across their chest.  That is a harsh reality.

[tdhoosier]

25 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I thought about that a little the day Ledlum committed to Tennesee...We can show 50 hours of playing through Trayce, but our lack of modern day wing play makes tape on that important point basically nonexistent

I agree with the wing narrative overall, but I really think we lost Ledlum because he wanted  to play more in a 4’s role. When Ware signed, this all changed. If being the second big on the floor is what he wanted, and that’s what he’s getting at TN, then it was a good decision on his part. 

[dgambill]

16 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

When somebody is smarter, has charisma, has a unique skill, is a hard working entrepreneur then most have no problem that they make ‘more money than I do’. But if it’s a pro athlete with a unique skill then ‘they don’t deserve it’. And if it’s a young adult, it’s ‘even worse’? Worse because they are making money off a unique skill they have? A revenue generating skill that used to be taken by another entity? So, making money on your God-given talents is acceptable in almost every other instance, except in sports? I guess, I just don’t understand the distinction and have a very hard time agreeing with this point of view.

 

 

While I can see parts of his arguement I agree…no reason to belittle someone because their talent and hard work is in a gymnasium instead of a boardroom. While most of us were going on dates, to parties, and eating pizza and drinking beer they have sacrificed numerous summers and time with friends to sharpen their craft and earn what they get….don’t worry…if they don’t utilize the opportunity they are given to go to school and get a degree and also prepare themselves for life without basketball they too will be a part of the daily 7-5 grind of work life soon enough. Basketball is fleeting for most of them…in a couple years they will get hit head on in the face with the reality of “hard work” for the rest of their life…I suspect for most of them they aren’t afraid of a little hard work and will utilize what they’ve learned and apply it to profession.

[IUFLA]

21 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I honestly don't think the style of how wings will be used is that big of a deal or not having tape, etc. 

These guys, both coaches and players, are basketball savvy enough to understand the roster Woodson took over, etc. It's a pretty simple spin to, 'hey, I molded my system to my roster for the success of the team." I think a player would love that. 

I also think he can show tape of his NBA style, which would actually be a big win. 

All this to say, I don't think what the AC guys were saying on that point is really any issue at all. 

Just saying that it's always easier to pitch something you can demonstrate in action than a vision...

Bird in the hand thing...

But I do agree with @tdhoosier that it probably wasn't a deal breaker...Tennesee has, from all accounts, nicer facilities, the #1 rated NIL collective, and a proven coach...

[Zuckerkorn]

21 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I honestly don't think the style of how wings will be used is that big of a deal or not having tape, etc. 

These guys, both coaches and players, are basketball savvy enough to understand the roster Woodson took over, etc. It's a pretty simple spin to, 'hey, I molded my system to my roster for the success of the team." I think a player would love that. 

I also think he can show tape of his NBA style, which would actually be a big win. 

All this to say, I don't think what the AC guys were saying on that point is really any issue at all. 

It was their theory, which seems plausible to me.

I know you've expressed your opinion that we need a couple of wings, and given your take in your response - why do you think we've yet to add players that address this area of need (thus far)?

[IUCrazy2]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

While I can see parts of his arguement I agree…no reason to belittle someone because their talent and hard work is in a gymnasium instead of a boardroom. While most of us were going on dates, to parties, and eating pizza and drinking beer they have sacrificed numerous summers and time with friends to sharpen their craft and earn what they get….don’t worry…if they don’t utilize the opportunity they are given to go to school and get a degree and also prepare themselves for life without basketball they too will be a part of the daily 7-5 grind of work life soon enough. Basketball is fleeting for most of them…in a couple years they will get hit head on in the face with the reality of “hard work” for the rest of their life…I suspect for most of them they aren’t afraid of a little hard work and will utilize what they’ve learned and apply it to profession.

I am not belittling them.  I am saying that the value they bring to an EDUCATIONAL institution is overrated.  You have to start asking how much money being dumped into sports entertainment at these schools is now being taken from the academic mission.  If they are pros who are capable of making money off their skill, then let's set up a league for them to do that.  I mean, I won't watch the Bloomington Stone Cutters vs. The Columbus Worthless Nuts play to 68 point finishes when the Pacers and Cavaliers are available for that, but I am sure that a few thousand locals a night probably will.

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

It was their theory, which seems plausible to me.

I know you've expressed your opinion that we need a couple of wings, and given your take in your response - why do you think we've yet to add players that address this area of need (thus far)?

Because we zeroed in instead of a wide net on some guys with a bunch of options and struck out.

Win some, lose some.  I also think that the league we play in has a reputation that would make it unattractive for wings with a choice.  Fair or not, perception is reality.

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Just saying that it's always easier to pitch something you can demonstrate in action than a vision...

Bird in the hand thing...

But I do agree with @tdhoosier that it probably wasn't a deal breaker...Tennesee has, from all accounts, nicer facilities, the #1 rated NIL collective, and a proven coach...

Tennessee also has more success on the court in the past couple decades. If dusty banners and being the most recognized program in the state of Indiana can’t even win over local recruits then I’m sure it isn’t exactly going to blow over national recruits. It comes down to play style fit, playing time, connection to coach/teammates, nba development, NIL, and yes probably facilities.

[IUCrazy2]

We will get some dudes eventually and by September we will be convinced that we are going to have a competitive team.  The weather is getting nicer so we can all go out and touch grass while they fill out the roster.

Eventually some kids will lower themselves to play in front of our terrible fans, crappy facilities, NBA coach, and for our NIL pittance. (DWS)  And we will love them until they start losing too many games.  Circle of life.

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I am not belittling them.  I am saying that the value they bring to an EDUCATIONAL institution is overrated.  You have to start asking how much money being dumped into sports entertainment at these schools is now being taken from the academic mission.  If they are pros who are capable of making money off their skill, then let's set up a league for them to do that.  I mean, I won't watch the Bloomington Stone Cutters vs. The Columbus Worthless Nuts play to 68 point finishes when the Pacers and Cavaliers are available for that, but I am sure that a few thousand locals a night probably will.

Resources do get distributed into the greater University. Also it’s a HUGE advertisement and draw for bringing in traditional students. How many here went to IU because they grew up loving IU athletics and the connection they felt to that? How many corporate marketing and philanthropic donations go to the Univeristy because of the visiabikity the athletics gives to those companies. How many people give alumni dues/donations because of athletic success?? I suspect it brings a great deal of value more than one would think.

[IUCrazy2]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Resources do get distributed into the greater University. Also it’s a HUGE advertisement and draw for bringing in traditional students. How many here went to IU because they grew up loving IU athletics and the connection they felt to that? How many corporate marketing and philanthropic donations go to the Univeristy because of the visiabikity the athletics gives to those companies. How many people give alumni dues/donations because of athletic success?? I suspect it brings a great deal of value more than one would think.

https://www.reporter-times.com/story/news/2020/01/31/iu-athletics-reaches-1278-million-in-revenues/43867003/

That was a few years ago.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2020/02/14/ohio-state-athletic-revenue-210-million-but-department-lost-money/4760028002/

They made almost $100 million more but actually lost money.  They had to "borrow" $45 million from the school for COVID.  Make the athletes employees of the school and let's see how they do.  

ETA:  We will never be able to compete with that amount of money either because Indiana football is never going to be competitive with those schools.  Being in the BIG and trying to stay part of this league probably hurts our basketball program because we feel like we have to try to compete.  We'd be better off going to like the ACC and just emphasizing basketball.  We won't do that because it would mean walking away from all the TV revenue but  I think the football money is wasted.

Edited April 22, 2023 by IUCrazy2

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

https://www.reporter-times.com/story/news/2020/01/31/iu-athletics-reaches-1278-million-in-revenues/43867003/

That was a few years ago.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2020/02/14/ohio-state-athletic-revenue-210-million-but-department-lost-money/4760028002/

They made almost $100 million more but actually lost money.  They had to "borrow" $45 million from the school for COVID.  Make the athletes employees of the school and let's see how they do.  

Not arguing Univesities aren’t massively mis-managed state run organizations. Most govt run/state supported is horribly inefficient and mismanaged. I bet it would be a total mess at first…but if they decided to run it like a business then they would bring in much better people to run the ship and tighten things up and I suspect could be a very successful endeavor. As is they have little incentive because of the never ending govt subsides in the form of grants and student aid makes them basically fail proof because they will just lobby for more money and we all know the incestious relationship between academia and politics.

Edited April 22, 2023 by dgambill