IUfaninIllinois Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, BGleas said: Bates was the 30th ranked prospect in the 247 composite, and he was a guy that sort of climbed up the rankings his last year. Mgbako is #8 in the nation in the 247 composite. That is a massive difference. Nobody is saying he's "the savior", but we've never had a guy ranked that highly not come in and make an immediate impact. We've never had a guy ranked that high not come in and start from day 1. This is not Lander or Bates, this is Langford, Gordon, Vonleh, etc., all immediate impact guys, all lottery picks. That’s fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, rico said: Hey @KoB2011is this not an expectation? It’s not an unreasonable or problematic one. Saying a guy is going to start at the weakest position on our roster isn’t exactly calling him a savior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: It’s not an unreasonable or problematic one. Saying a guy is going to start at the weakest position on our roster isn’t exactly calling him a savior. It is an expectation. Pure and simple. Nothing wrong with having it just like there is nothing wrong with expecting MM to earn his minutes. That being said I expect big things from him, personally. But I can't get Emoni Bates out of my head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, rico said: It is an expectation. Pure and simple. Nothing wrong with having it just like there is nothing wrong with expecting MM to earn his minutes. That being said I expect big things from him, personally. But I can't get Emoni Bates out of my head. Not directed at you specifically, Rico, I'm just not getting this "earn his minutes" thing that keeps getting mentioned? He's a top 10 recruit. If he comes to IU he's going to play. Did JHS earn his minutes? Did TJD earn his minutes as a freshmen? Langford, Zeller, Ferrell, Jeffries, etc., etc. These guys are all top end talents, Mgbako included. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, rico said: It is an expectation. Pure and simple. Nothing wrong with having it just like there is nothing wrong with expecting MM to earn his minutes. That being said I expect big things from him, personally. But I can't get Emoni Bates out of my head. Bates, despite injuries, averaged 10 ppg as a freshman. If we could get a time machine to bring us freshman year Emoni Bates, he would be the starting 3 on this roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: Not directed at you specifically, Rico, I'm just not getting this "earn his minutes" thing that keeps getting mentioned? He's a top 10 recruit. If he comes to IU he's going to play. Did JHS earn his minutes? Did TJD earn his minutes as a freshmen? Langford, Zeller, Ferrell, Jeffries, etc., etc. These guys are all top end talents, Mgbako included. I imagine it is along the lines earning a spot. Like a HS coach will tell his team the 1st day of practice even though he returns all 5 starters from the previous year. lol I expect MM to start and play starter minutes from the get go. But that doesn't mean Woody feels the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: Bates, despite injuries, averaged 10 ppg as a freshman. If we could get a time machine to bring us freshman year Emoni Bates, he would be the starting 3 on this roster. ...as his NBA draft stock plunged. The kid did not play up to expectations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 Just now, rico said: I imagine it is along the lines earning a spot. Like a HS coach will tell his team the 1st day of practice even though he returns all 5 starters from the previous year. lol I expect MM to start and play starter minutes from the get go. But that doesn't mean Woody feels the same way. I'm still confused though how this relates to Woodson or Mgbako? If he comes to IU, unless something goes really wrong he's going to start. Are we saying he will not have earned that? Did JHS earn it or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, rico said: ...as his NBA draft stock plunged. The kid did not play up to expectations. I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that any kid ranked that highly, even the one that comes to mind as an epic bust, is going to be our starting 3 next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm still confused though how this relates to Woodson or Mgbako? If he comes to IU, unless something goes really wrong he's going to start. Are we saying he will not have earned that? Did JHS earn it or not? As I said I expect him to start. I never said he had to earn anything. Go back and look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I'm not disputing that. What I'm saying is that any kid ranked that highly, even the one that comes to mind as an epic bust, is going to be our starting 3 next year. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, rico said: As I said I expect him to start. I never said he had to earn anything. Go back and look. The first post I quoted you on said "...there is nothing wrong with expecting MM to earn his minutes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 17 minutes ago, rico said: I imagine it is along the lines earning a spot. Like a HS coach will tell his team the 1st day of practice even though he returns all 5 starters from the previous year. lol I expect MM to start and play starter minutes from the get go. But that doesn't mean Woody feels the same way. I think we all understand he has to go win the starting job in practice, just like everyone else on the team. But if he commits he’d be in the same category as X, Reneau, and Ware in terms of where he is starting that race. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: I think we all understand he has to go win the starting job in practice, just like everyone else on the team. But if he commits he’d be in the same category as X, Reneau, and Ware in terms of where he is starting that race. Exactly. Every season starts with a group of 5 that is sort of "in the lead" to start. There's always that first time early in the season when practice starts that the coach says, "ok, in red give me" and he rattles of the first group of 5. Is it written in stone? No. But that 5 is certainly in the driver's seat for starting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 7 hours ago, KoB2011 said: I don’t think we have anything that a reasonable person would.l consider comparable to Filipowski in terms of minutes competition. If that’s why you think it’s a long shot, then that’s a laughable position. We may not get him, no clue, but to say that our competition for minutes is in the same ballpark as that couldn’t be further from the truth at this particular moment in time. The only thing that's "laughable" is you not understanding what I'm saying... I say he's a longshot because, if he wants major minutes (which we may be able to provide) and wants to be the focal point of the offense, then St Johns and Louisville (and he was recruited by Nolan Smith at Duke... Now on Louisville staff) can definitely provide more than we can...They don't have anyone close to X, Ware, or Reneau... If Woody thinks he's a fit, and can get him, good on Woody... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, BGleas said: Some talk that he'll have to "earn minutes" (whatever that actually means) and it's not a given he'll have an immediate impact. This is pretty good... You say you don't know what "earn minutes" means... Then 27 minutes ago, BGleas said: Exactly. Every season starts with a group of 5 that is sort of "in the lead" to start. There's always that first time early in the season when practice starts that the coach says, "ok, in red give me" and he rattles of the first group of 5. Is it written in stone? No. But that 5 is certainly in the driver's seat for starting. Then you describe how it can actually happen... That first 5 may have an advantage, but if one kid outplays another, it certainly is a possibility... Especially if a kid struggles on the defensive end... Edited April 30, 2023 by IUFLA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The only thing that's "laughable" is you not understanding what I'm saying... I say he's a longshot because, if he wants major minutes (which we may be able to provide) and wants to be the focal point of the offense, then St Johns and Louisville (and he was recruited by Nolan Smith at Duke... Now on Louisville staff) can definitely provide more than we can...They don't have anyone close to X, Ware, or Reneau... If Woody thinks he's a fit, and can get him, good on Woody... I understand what you’re saying, I don’t think it makes any sense. He plays a different position and has different skills than all those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, IUFLA said: This is pretty good... You say you don't know what "earn minutes" means... Then Then you describe how it can actually happen... That first 5 may have an advantage, but if one kid outplays another, it certainly is a possibility... Especially if a kid struggles on the defensive end... Yes or no - do you think Woody would go this hard at a kid if he didn’t think he could play defense and didn’t think he filled a need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, BGleas said: The first post I quoted you on said "...there is nothing wrong with expecting MM to earn his minutes." If someone expects him to start that is fine. If someone expects him to earn his minutes than that is fine as well. Seems to me some of you(including you) are calling some out on the earn the minutes thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tru123dt Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, rico said: If someone expects him to start that is fine. If someone expects him to earn his minutes than that is fine as well. Seems to me some of you(including you) are calling some out on the earn the minutes thing. Starting means you earned your minutes in practice. What is the debate? 🤷♂️ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, IUFLA said: This is pretty good... You say you don't know what "earn minutes" means... Then Then you describe how it can actually happen... That first 5 may have an advantage, but if another kid outplays another, it certainly is a possibility... Especially if a kid struggles on the defensive end... On the first point, you misinterpreted my point about not knowing what "earn your minutes" means, but that's on me, not you. What I was trying to say, not so well, is that from a fans perspective what does it mean? If Mgbako comes to IU he will start. How will you know if he earned it or not? Did JHS earn it? Did TJD earn it as a freshmen? Zeller, Yogi, Bryant, etc.? On the second quote, the point was that there is always an initial starting 5 at the beginning of practice. It's very hard to unseat that initial 5. So, did that initial 5 earn it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Who is putting expectations or savior status on him? Well, I was considering nicknaming him Jesus. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, rico said: If someone expects him to start that is fine. If someone expects him to earn his minutes than that is fine as well. Seems to me some of you(including you) are calling some out on the earn the minutes thing. I just don't get it? How will you know if he earned it? Did all of the other freshman who have started earn it? I just don't get making the "he'll need to earn it" thing a point. Is there a way we would know if he started but didn't earn it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Yes or no - do you think Woody would go this hard at a kid if he didn’t think he could play defense and didn’t think he filled a need? Mgbako certainly has potential, I've said that in prior posts, so like I said, if Woody wants him, and can land him, good on Woody... I tend not to judge on a highlight reel though... I'd watch JHS play 5 or 6 games his last year at Montverde, and he was a great high school defender...one of the experts said he was the best on the ball defender in high school basketball... He was a decent defender at the college level, and that helped keep him on the floor... I'm sure had he stayed he'd have become a stellar defensive player... I've yet to find a whole game recording of any of Mgbako's high school games... I did watch the 2023 McDonald's game, but he didn't do much there, and I'd say that's not the place to gauge a kid's defensive abilities 🙂 Edited April 30, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tru123dt said: Starting means you earned your minutes in practice. What is the debate? 🤷♂️ You tell me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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