Expectations

[HMSHoosier]

This is not intended on going after anybody or anything, nor am I trying to ruffle any feathers.  Been catching up on a lot of the threads and every now and then I will see someone post about IU being mediocre(not that I disagree).  That just got me thinking though.  Is there a certain era of IU basketball that everyone compares to, or is it comparing to all of Coach Knights time at IU?  Is it wins and losses? Is it a tourney run?  Again this is not directed at anyone or trying to ruffle anybody up it just got me thinking of what my expectations should be moving forward.

I was born in '77 so I hardly remember the '81 championship but my expectations have always been to get back to the time from '81 to around '94 because IU was usually fairly high ranked, in the running for BIG titles and making deep tourney runs. In the last six years under Knight things started going downhill in my opinion.  There was the '02 run to the championship game but at no point through that season did I think that was going to happen if I'm being honest. Then I got some hope for a few years under Crean but we all know how that ended.

I look forward to what everyone thinks.

[MoyeCowbell]

If you're asking about the 'era of comparison', it's most likely '75 to '94, with multiple Big Ten titles and deep tournament runs as the benchmarks. That's the easy, surface-level way to compare and contrast.

But I would venture to say the bigger element(s) are the ways the teams play; not just fast/slow, inside/outside, motion/sets, but the general understanding of the game at such a high level that the entire squad can adapt at a moment's notice. RMK's teams (mostly) had a very high collective basketball IQ and could exploit other team's weaknesses like no other. They also had a way of exploiting their own strengths too, and could play with a certain synergy that would overwhelm teams that had to rely on one or two stars. He assembled multiple compatible and complimentary parts that brought out the best in one another.

Knight's best teams played smart, but they also played incredibly tough. They were tenacious and unrelenting with their defense (and if a player wasn't, ass-meet-bench), and they took care of the ball. They were looking to make the best possible play in any given situation. Fundamentals over flash. Even his weaker teams showed how effective that was: the mid-90s Michigan teams with Tractor Traylor, Mo Taylor, Maceo Baston, et al -- I remember watching how bouncy those guys were, just dunking everything down low and thinking, why can't we do that? But then we'd beat them with a well-rounded attack and realize it didn't matter as much. (To be fair, the game has changed and I do believe you need more athleticism now).

All of those elements culminated into what we think 'INDIANA' means now. There is a pride from those in the state (and those who've adopted it) that goes into a resolute way of being. It's a standard that when we're at our best, it's not "we have to play them", but "they have to play us".

[Common Sense]

see current Purdue

[Hoosierfan1901]

Make the tournament and minimum of Sweet 16s. But realistically just make the tournament at this point.

[Hoosier4Life53]

I go back to the beginning of the Knight era, and was fortunate enough to be around to watch those teams, so my benchmark is the 1976 undefeated team. Obviously, that’s a high bar, and isn’t a realistic goal to set, but the overall excellence surrounding the program is what Id like to see again. Winning the B10 championship, being a consistent Top 25 team and a threat to win a national title should be our goal. 

In other words - a true “blue blood” program again! And with our resources that shouldn’t be that hard.

[IU Scott]

Born 1970 and RMK was the only coach I knew for my first 30 years. I don't remember everything about the 76 team but remember everything about the 81 team. That team was probably my favorite IU team I remember watching at IU.

I think the expectations should be competing for big ten championships and making the tournament every year or at least 8 or 9 out 10 years. Even under Knight we weren't competing for a national title every year but built a strong team over 3 or 4 years to a championship caliber team. I think that shot be the expectations at IU

[Dawg Bawls]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Born 1970 and RMK was the only coach I knew for my first 30 years. I don't remember everything about the 76 team but remember everything about the 81 team. That team was probably my favorite IU team I remember watching at IU.

I think the expectations should be competing for big ten championships and making the tournament every year or at least 8 or 9 out 10 years. Even under Knight we weren't competing for a national title every year but built a strong team over 3 or 4 years to a championship caliber team. I think that shot be the expectations at IU

1975 and 87 was my 81

[IU Scott]

27 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

1975 and 87 was my 81

I loved 87 as well

[Between2Halls]

I expect to have a team that competes EVERY game. Let’s start there. 

[tdhoosier]

I said it earlier in another thread, but I’d like to have success similar to the women’s program. 

[13th&Jackson]

34 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I said it earlier in another thread, but I’d like to have success similar to the women’s program. 

I was going to say the same. Consistently ranked in the top 20 or better. Single digit loss seasons. Competing for top three in conference. Make NCAAT every year, with S16 appearances and teams that could go deeper 

[BADGERVOL]

We should consistently be a top 10-15 team with maybe once every 3-4 years we drop to a team that’s borderline top 25. We should NEVER be below middle of the pack in conference and that should be a down year. 
 

A kid who stays four years should expect to make at least one run for a final four or better.

Be a good coach and recruit well in the region and thus can be expected. If Crean, who’s above average at best did what he did then a good to great coach should accomplish the above

[Zlinedavid]

I don't compare to any era in the past, just against my own expectations, which kind of mirrors the definition of modern "success":

1. Outside of major unplanned events, making the tournament every year.  If it's just mediocre performance, a pass is issued every 12-15 seasons. 

2. In a down year, at minimum a competitive first round game.  Below average: first round win, competitive 2nd round.  Average: Sweet 16 or major 2nd round upset.  Above average: Elite 8, major Sweet 16 upset.  Great: Final Four, or major Elite 8 upset. 

3. Maybe this is heresy, but conference championships really don't matter matter to me. It's all about the tournament.  If you're good, you'll win conference titles along the way. But....conference championship + early tournament exit = disappointment. No conference title + the same run....feels more successful.

 Although I would like to win one of those m******f****** B10 tournaments, just to say we have. 

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I said it earlier in another thread, but I’d like to have success similar to the women’s program. 

And this is so important from an overall program perspective: Moren has had 20+ win seasons since year 2. But she raised it to another level in year 6 at the age of 49. She’s still only 54, so the program can look forward to another decade of success and stability 

[Parakeet Jones]

40 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I don't compare to any era in the past, just against my own expectations, which kind of mirrors the definition of modern "success":

1. Outside of major unplanned events, making the tournament every year.  If it's just mediocre performance, a pass is issued every 12-15 seasons. 

2. In a down year, at minimum a competitive first round game.  Below average: first round win, competitive 2nd round.  Average: Sweet 16 or major 2nd round upset.  Above average: Elite 8, major Sweet 16 upset.  Great: Final Four, or major Elite 8 upset. 

3. Maybe this is heresy, but conference championships really don't matter matter to me. It's all about the tournament.  If you're good, you'll win conference titles along the way. But....conference championship + early tournament exit = disappointment. No conference title + the same run....feels more successful.

 Although I would like to win one of those m******f****** B10 tournaments, just to say we have. 

With unbalanced conferences schedules, I don’t worry about the conference as much as I used to. 

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

With unbalanced conferences schedules, I don’t worry about the conference as much as I used to. 

I think the first priority should always be winning the conference. If you win the conference you will get a high seed and that makes your path to the final four easier 

[MoyeCowbell]

19 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think the first priority should always be winning the conference. If you win the conference you will get a high seed and that makes your path to the final four easier 

And certainly with the Big Ten seemingly getting larger by the minute, this rings even more true.

[Zlinedavid]

33 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think the first priority should always be winning the conference. If you win the conference you will get a high seed and that makes your path to the final four easier 

First priority is win the game you’re either playing or the next one on the schedule, regardless if it’s “conference” or not. 
 

For instance, I’m not going to lose sleep if we have a 29-3 regular season record with a 17-3 conference record, but where we happened to lose twice to the same team, who also had a 17-3 conference record but was 25-7 overall. We’d likely still end up with a better tournament seed. 

[Sea Turtle]

17 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

We should consistently be a top 10-15 team with maybe once every 3-4 years we drop to a team that’s borderline top 25. We should NEVER be below middle of the pack in conference and that should be a down year. 
 

A kid who stays four years should expect to make at least one run for a final four or better.

Be a good coach and recruit well in the region and thus can be expected. If Crean, who’s above average at best did what he did then a good to great coach should accomplish the above

This is it! It should not be this hard. 

It's mind boggling how inept this university is. 

[landrus13]

Making the tournament consistently isn't an unrealistic expectation, but it feels like it lately with this program. I'd rather win the B1G regular season title than the meaningless B1G tournament title. I want routinely Sweet 16 runs and a Final Four run every 4-5 years. I want consistent play no matter the opponent. Too many times we play down to inferior opponents and it almost cost us multiple times this season. 

[Muddy River]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:17 AM, Common Sense said:

see current Purdue

You want to lose to a 13+ seed in the tournament 3 out of 4 years???  

[Sea Turtle]

Good video. 

 

 

[Zlinedavid]

13 hours ago, Muddy River said:

You want to lose to a 13+ seed in the tournament 3 out of 4 years???  

If it means a national championship in the 4th, yes.