FW_Hoosier Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Again, another incident with questionable at best evidence. Why did it take 14 months to file charges? If a cop saw him do it, this should be pretty open and shut and handled quickly. That didnt happen. Let's see how it plays out in court before deciding. It's certainly strange they waited until he released a book about racism to rule charges. Regardless, let's assume both claims against Bennett are true. Why would you not read what someone has to say because of that? Do people with a past not get to have experiences to share or an opinion? Do you all only read (or even read) people that you agree with? It has nothing to do with whether you agree with someone and everything to do with credibility, especially with an issue like this which is inherently subjective and often difficult to substantiate. Assuming the claim against Bennett regarding the incident in Las Vegas is true (and from the information I’ve seen, I believe he lied about it), then that means he explicitly lied for attention/personal gain about the very issue he’s talking about in the book. In that scenario, I’m not going to take anything he says on the issue at face value, especially in a book that he’s also trying to make money on. As far as the assault issue with him, I don’t know as much about that, and I think it has less effect on his credibility because it was a pretty minor incident and doesn’t involve the character trait of honesty or lack thereof. On the other hand, I’m going to give a lot more weight to the words of someone like Thabo Sefolosha on this issue, because he really experienced unacceptable police brutality. A guy like Lebron, who’s also never demonstrated a penchant for dishonesty about the issue, is also worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: It has nothing to do with whether you agree with someone and everything to do with credibility, especially with an issue like this which is inherently subjective and often difficult to substantiate. Assuming the claim against Bennett regarding the incident in Las Vegas is true (and from the information I’ve seen, I believe he lied about it), then that means he explicitly lied for attention/personal gain about the very issue he’s talking about in the book. In that scenario, I’m not going to take anything he says on the issue at face value, especially in a book that he’s also trying to make money on. As far as the assault issue with him, I don’t know as much about that, and I think it has less effect on his credibility because it was a pretty minor incident and doesn’t involve the character trait of honesty or lack thereof. On the other hand, I’m going to give a lot more weight to the words of someone like Thabo Sefolosha on this issue, because he really experienced unacceptable police brutality. A guy like Lebron, who’s also never demonstrated a penchant for dishonesty about the issue, is also worth listening to. I'd be curious to see what evidence the police department produced that you found made Bennett out to be a liar. Regardless, you'd rather see what two guys that never went to college have to say about racism in college sports than what someone who did go has to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I'd be curious to see what evidence the police department produced that you found made Bennett out to be a liar. Regardless, you'd rather see what two guys that never went to college have to say about racism in college sports than what someone who did go has to say? Look, we’ve looked at all the same evidence in regards to Bennett. We’re never going to have complete information about police encounters like the one Bennett had. All you can do with these situations is read both accounts, watch whatever videos of the incident are available, and decide who you believe on a case by case basis. Both sides are going to present an account that’s most favorable to them. In this case, I believe Bennett mischaracterized what happened. In other cases, like with Sefolosha, I believe that the police mischaracterized the situation. You’re not wrong for believing Bennett, as we don’t and never will have all the info, so reasonable minds can disagree. But assuming that Bennett did lie, as I believe to be the case, I’m not going to take anything else he says about the issue at face value, whether it relates to college athletics or not. My reference to Sefolosha and Lebron was related to the issue of racism in society and sports generally, not only in college sports. Regardless, that doesn’t affect my stance on Bennett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Look, we’ve looked at all the same evidence in regards to Bennett. We’re never going to have complete information about police encounters like the one Bennett had. All you can do with these situations is read both accounts, watch whatever videos of the incident are available, and decide who you believe on a case by case basis. Both sides are going to present an account that’s most favorable to them. In this case, I believe Bennett mischaracterized what happened. In other cases, like with Sefolosha, I believe that the police mischaracterized the situation. You’re not wrong for believing Bennett, as we don’t and never will have all the info, so reasonable minds can disagree. But assuming that Bennett did lie, as I believe to be the case, I’m not going to take anything else he says about the issue at face value, whether it relates to college athletics or not. My reference to Sefolosha and Lebron was related to the issue of racism in society and sports generally, not only in college sports. Regardless, that doesn’t affect my stance on Bennett. I guess I am surprised to hear that you think we have seen the same evidence; I was thinking there had to be footage I haven't seen. The police never showed any footage at all of what Bennett claimed was the problem; it's not that I believe Bennett I just dont think the police have done anything to disprove his claim. Further, they either are intentionally not showing all the footage they have or else the cop Bennett took issue with didnt have his body cam on. Either way, huge red flag that removes any amount of the police deserving the benefit of the doubt. Can I ask, why do you believe a cop who either didnt have his body cam on or is hiding evidence? Believing the cop in that situation has nothing to do with believing Bennett, it has to do with choosing to believe someone we can objectively determine did something wrong. It's a false dichotomy to say that I have to believe one side or the other. The police department has done nothing in this case to deserve to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 If I said the mods mistreated me and referenced something Blue did, and the response from the mods was to show a post from HH while either deleting or not having the post in question from Blue, the mods haven't even attempted to refute my claim. That is what happened in Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I guess I am surprised to hear that you think we have seen the same evidence; I was thinking there had to be footage I haven't seen. The police never showed any footage at all of what Bennett claimed was the problem; it's not that I believe Bennett I just dont think the police have done anything to disprove his claim. Further, they either are intentionally not showing all the footage they have or else the cop Bennett took issue with didnt have his body cam on. Either way, huge red flag that removes any amount of the police deserving the benefit of the doubt. Can I ask, why do you believe a cop who either didnt have his body cam on or is hiding evidence? Believing the cop in that situation has nothing to do with believing Bennett, it has to do with choosing to believe someone we can objectively determine did something wrong. It's a false dichotomy to say that I have to believe one side or the other. The police department has done nothing in this case to deserve to be believed. I don’t see the false dichotomy. You either believe Bennett that he was detained “for doing nothing more than simply being a black man in the wrong place at the wrong time,” or you believe the police that “his movements and actions were different than others’” and “officers had reasonable cause to stop Mr. Bennett.” There’s video of Bennett running away from officers during an active shooter situation, and video of officers loosening the cuffs, explaining why he was detained, and letting him go after 10 minutes. Is it a little suspicious there was no body cam footage from the arresting officer? Sure. But it was also an active shooter situation, and these things can happen. Then there’s the fact that the officers that arrested Bennett were all minorities, etc., etc. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong/racist about police drawing their weapons, detaining someone running from the scene of an active shooter, cuffing him, and explaining why they detained him and letting him go after they realized he wasn’t a threat. I think Bennett lied when he characterized the encounter as racially motivated. But like I said, reasonable minds can disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 Listen fellas, this conversation regarding "race" is a lose-lose thing. It doesn't need to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 13, 2018 Report Share Posted May 13, 2018 1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said: I don’t see the false dichotomy. You either believe Bennett that he was detained “for doing nothing more than simply being a black man in the wrong place at the wrong time,” or you believe the police that “his movements and actions were different than others’” and “officers had reasonable cause to stop Mr. Bennett.” There’s video of Bennett running away from officers during an active shooter situation, and video of officers loosening the cuffs, explaining why he was detained, and letting him go after 10 minutes. Is it a little suspicious there was no body cam footage from the arresting officer? Sure. But it was also an active shooter situation, and these things can happen. Then there’s the fact that the officers that arrested Bennett were all minorities, etc., etc. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong/racist about police drawing their weapons, detaining someone running from the scene of an active shooter, cuffing him, and explaining why they detained him and letting him go after they realized he wasn’t a threat. I think Bennett lied when he characterized the encounter as racially motivated. But like I said, reasonable minds can disagree. You posted the false dichotomy in your first paragraph. I dont have to believe either one; it is perfectly acceptable to say I dont know what happened and there isnt enough evidence to decide either way. For the record, Bennett agrees with all the facts you posted. He even said all the other officers, the ones we have evidence on, are fine. I dont believe Bennett, I just dont believe the police department that nothing happened given the missing evidence. And just because you dont see an issue with it, doesn't mean from his point of view it wasn't wrong or racist. All he did was talk about what happened from his point of view; that doesn't make him a liar. If the police provide evidence he said something false then sure. Factually speaking, the police have no evidence that shows Bennett lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted May 14, 2018 Report Share Posted May 14, 2018 18 hours ago, cohete15 said: I have no problem giving everyone minimum wage. But ultimately, if you think you deserve to get paid more than $xxx,xxx in tuition over 4 years, plus $xx,xxx in stipends every 4 years, plus allllll the other benefits...then by all means, go find someone to pay you to play. Colleges aren’t stopping you. This was an excellent post overall but especially this last paragraph! Nigel Hayes was probably already compensated more than his actual basketball performance warranted under the current system. Even under a system more like he proposes, I suspect he would find many, more talented players that would be compensated more than himself and I doubt he would be satisfied with that either. The bottom line is that Nigel chose to go to college, fully aware of the deal that athletes get, because he felt it was the most beneficial opportunity for him. I have far more sympathy for the grad students and under grad students toiling away doing research, who do far more valuable and important work for far less recognition and usually very little if any compensation. Like the basketball and football players, they know the deal going in and willing choose to pay their dues in order to have a chance at a more successful career down the road. Unlike the basketball and football players, one rarely hears them whining about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 4, 2018 Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 Given the Sterling Brown body cam that just came out, does anyone want to rethink calling Bennett a liar when his case has missing body cam footage of the moment in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 17 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Given the Sterling Brown body cam that just came out, does anyone want to rethink calling Bennett a liar when his case has missing body cam footage of the moment in question? Nope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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