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Archie Miller's coaching philosophy...Is this current team smart enough for Archie's standards?


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I really wanted to know what kind of team/players Archie Miller recruits and wants at IU. So I wanted to know his coaching  philosophy and this is what I found. After you read this, and seeing the dynamics of this Crean recruited/Miller recruited team, can Archie really sell his philosophy to this current team? Read and you be the judge.

(ARCHIE MILLER BASKETBALL PHILOSOPHY)

Archie Miller employs a structured transition offense intended to open up games, create foul trouble for opponents, and score before the defense can get set. His offensive approach has been called "one of the most complete transition offensive systems you will find." He frequently uses a "Phoenix fast break" with players pushing the ball off of rebounds and turnovers in a flexible system that can take on a variety of alignments. He will modify the Phoenix break based on personnel to accommodate five guards or two post players on the floor at once. If an opponent scores, Miller employs a "Carolina transition offense" to create scoring opportunities which flow right into a motion offense.[8]

The identity of Miller's teams are rooted in defense. He employs a "pack line defense," which is a variation of man-to-man defense invented by Dick Bennett at Wisconsin and also employed by Tony Bennett at Virginia and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, among others.[9][10] Instead of the off-ball defenders pressuring their player and denying the pass, everyone except the player guarding the ball must be inside an imaginary line 16 feet from the rim. At all times a defender pressures the player with the basketball, while the other four defenders play in gap/help positions. However, if the offensive player picks up the dribble, all players go out and deny looking for the steal. The pack line defense is intended to discourage penetration, getting inside the paint, and forces opponents to win with a well executed offense and good outside shooting.[11]

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Here's how I see it (by individual player):

Offense/Defense:

Romeo - Yes/Yes

Devonte - Yes/Yes

Al - No/No

Rob - No/Yes

Morgan - Yes/Yes

Smith - Yes/Yes

McRoberts - No/Yes

Fitzner - No/No

De'Ron - No/Yes

Cliff - Yes/No

Jake - Yes/Incomplete

Damezi - No/No

Jerome/Race - Incomplete/Incomplete

Edit - I overlooked the word 'smart'.  I based mine more on the player's style of play .  

For example, Rob is certainly a 'smart' point guard, more so than Devonte.  But, Devonte's style fits Archie's philosophy of pushing the ball better than Rob's does.  Rob is most effective in the half-court.

 

 

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I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times.

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1 minute ago, HoosierJax said:

I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times.

You make a good point.  All the Crean guys ARE Miller recruits.  With the exception of Grant Gelon... Archie talked all the remaining kids in staying at IU. 

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2 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times.

You may be right.  I do know though that Tony Bennett is a terrific coach and VA was awful his first few years there.  Every since year 5 he's had them rolling though.  Maybe his system just takes time.

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4 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

You make a good point.  All the Crean guys ARE Miller recruits.  With the exception of Grant Gelon... Archie talked all the remaining kids in staying at IU. 

True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer.  Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get.

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3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer.  Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get.

All the while,  McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado.  Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself.  Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead.  Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team.  LOL.

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1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer.  Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get.

He did re-recruit Smith ,Moore and Durham when he got here,but I would say that at the time of his hire it was probably easier to talk them into staying committed then to hit the road and try and find 3 new ones...but yes none would have been pursued by cam if given different circumstances....for one none is from Indiana,inside out...of the 3 imo Moore is the only one I would want.

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42 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

All the while,  McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado.  Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself.  Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead.  Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team.  LOL.

Woulda shoulda coulda. Looking through the rear view mirror is unproductive.

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57 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times.

Has nothing to do with “understanding “. Kids have varying physical attributes. Crean recruited kids, especially bigs, who ran the floor and played his version of Euroball/ position-less basketball. Archie wants kids who are physically tough and  able to hold their own defensively and in a half court offense. Different skill set, different body types required to execute the different offenses. Until CAM gets his players in place, his offense will struggle 

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50 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

All the while,  McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado.  Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself.  Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead.  Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team.  LOL.

Meh.  All things considered, long term health of the program, state of recruiting, and so on, I'd rather have Rob Phinisee,  He's going to be a sharp stick in the eye of boiler fans.  I don't think Rob would be here if Wright was.

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

A good/great coach changes his philosophy to fit the team's personnel.  He has what he has.  

Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns 

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47 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns 

What message is being sent to recruits?  Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense?  They walk to ball up the floor or rarely look to get out and go.   Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up but there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row.  It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. 

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12 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns 

Well I hope sticking to his guns produces wins.....no matter what his philosophy is, winning is what counts at IU.  How many years was RMK at IU before he got them to a FF?

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2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

What message is being sent to recruits?  Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense?  They walk to ball up the floor or rarely loom to get out and go.   Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up bit there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row.  It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. 

Who said anything about Carolina’s offense. That was Crean ball to the core and didn’t hold up to teams that could turn a game into half court. 

Give me tough minded kids who don’t mind scrapping and value defense and ball possession every time 

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11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

What message is being sent to recruits?  Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense?  They walk to ball up the floor or rarely loom to get out and go.   Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up bit there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row.  It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. 

Archie has to have tape to show to recruits when he tells them how he will use them.

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I posted a similar question in the post game thread.  I think this question is very key to the overall establishment of what kind of coach Archie will be at IU.  Also I asked does Archie now need to prepare to adapt more at this level and the high lever recruits he will get?  Also I feel Crean was too rigid with his system and not adapting to player skills each season as necessary.  At this level as Indiana has 5 star after five star considering IU how can you not adjust your offense as needed?  I think the next few years will be very interesting with the implementation of his systems and the adjusts or lack there of that are made.  No matter what I think a baseline needs to be established but it has to be somewhat flexible as personnel and opponents dictate best play options, right?

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