What's up with our crowd?

[Seeking6]

10 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

He also said this: “Patience is not something a lot of fans have, but this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach. You folks are going to appreciate him, but it ain’t gonna happen in a year.” But I don't agree that a coach should "keep fans at bay" and block out any sort of administrative oversight. I think you can control basketball operations while getting a long with others; they are not mutually exclusive. 

Understand your point and to an extent I'll agree and to an extent I'll disagree. Another time. Another thread. For the purposes of this thread I'll try again and stay on point. Fans aren't the issue. 

[HoosierSadaseci]

On 2/8/2019 at 7:17 AM, AxnJxn said:

I realize this team has struggled, and it can sometimes be difficult to get excited for games, it was a late start, blah, blah, blah. But, the crowd last night was quiet from the tip, and even when we cut it to 3 late, they were pretty much non existent. This is the same fan base that packed the place when we were fielding a team of walkons early in the Crean regime, so I'm not sure I get it. We were coming off a huge win, and were looking at a chance to turn the season around, and last night was a complete dud in a number of ways, including crowd support. What gives?

Uninspired play brings uninspired fans.

[AxnJxn]

55 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Our fans aren't the issue. Never have been never will be. Sure some hilljack who signed up for twitter might say something here and there but 99.9% of college programs would love to have our fandom/support. Let's not get things twisted here. Our fans. New or Old. Indiana natives or not. Knight or not. Are tired of debating the peripheral when we only want to debate and talk about hoops on the court.

We've lost one generation (last 20 years) minus 3-4 runs (02 Final 4 under Davis, 1 Sampson team, 2 Big Ten Title teams under Crean). I have no desire anymore to start working on the next generation. The last thing I want to hear about anymore is the fans responsibility in this. Find the damn players. Coach them correctly and frickin win. If Tennessee can handle that, if Texas Tech can do that, If Houston can do that, If Nevada can do that.....certainly those around the IU program can figure it out as well. 

 

I'm really starting to develop a greater liking of Knight (if that's possible). He kept our fans at bay and administration out of Basketball Operations.

Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think the fans are helping. We're in year 1.5 of Archie, and there have been some good signs during that time. Yeah, the last 6 weeks have sucked, but I was there on Sunday for my annual visit, and the balcony at least on one side was empty (not sure about the balcony above me), and the lower level was about 3/4 full on the opposite side. From what I've read/heard, the Thursday night crowd against Iowa was similarly sparse. I've heard a number of excuses, including weather, but those don't seem to be problems when we're winning. If you're not supporting the team when they are struggling, especially in a situation where a new coach is trying to rebuild and instill a culture of winning, well, that's kind of the definition of a fairweather fan, is it not?

Conversely, years back, I also came back for a game against Michigan State just before all the stuff hit the fan with Sampson, a game in which we won and the crowd was a huge part of why, and up to the usual Indiana standards. That team was comprised of a number of kids and a coach who weren't doing things the "Indiana way," however you want to define that (and I think most know what that means), but they were winning and receiving full support from the fanbase - packed house, loud as ever, and passionate. Kind of lame that we can support winning at any cost, but can't support losing in an effort to build a program the right way. I can kind of understand the former, I can't really understand the latter, especially when we pride ourselves on being this loyal, knowledgeable fan base.

[Seeking6]

4 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think the fans are helping. We're in year 1.5 of Archie, and there have been some good signs during that time. Yeah, the last 6 weeks have sucked, but I was there on Sunday for my annual visit, and the balcony at least on one side was empty (not sure about the balcony above me), and the lower level was about 3/4 full on the opposite side. From what I've read/heard, the Thursday night crowd against Iowa was similarly sparse. I've heard a number of excuses, including weather, but those don't seem to be problems when we're winning. If you're not supporting the team when they are struggling, especially in a situation where a new coach is trying to rebuild and instill a culture of winning, well, that's kind of the definition of a fairweather fan, is it not?

Conversely, years back, I also came back for a game against Michigan State just before all the stuff hit the fan with Sampson, a game in which we won and the crowd was a huge part of why, and up to the usual Indiana standards. That team was comprised of a number of kids and a coach who weren't doing things the "Indiana way," however you want to define that (and I think most know what that means), but they were winning and receiving full support from the fanbase - packed house, loud as ever, and passionate. Kind of lame that we can support winning at any cost, but can't support losing in an effort to build a program the right way. I can kind of understand the former, I can't really understand the latter, especially when we pride ourselves on being this loyal, knowledgeable fan base.

Sorry. Using a team that was as likely a Final 4 candidate as that Sampson team isn't the best example. I was there that Saturday night. National televised. Vitale in the house....and we blew the doors off Sparty. Of course we were going crazy. 

The game you came for Sunday is an example of years of frustration. Not season. But years. We had a promising season given the talent last year. Romeo coming in. Start 12-2 or whatever....and lose 8 of 9. You can only ask the fans to go to the well so much. Just my opinion. PS....I was at almost every home game during Crean's first 3 years. Tickets were either free or very, very cheap. I know the fan side of things. Again...our fans aren't the issue right now. We're just worn out. 

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Sorry. Using a team that was as likely a Final 4 candidate as that Sampson team isn't the best example. I was there that Saturday night. National televised. Vitale in the house....and we blew the doors off Sparty. Of course we were going crazy. 

The game you came for Sunday is an example of years of frustration. Not season. But years. We had a promising season given the talent last year. Romeo coming in. Start 12-2 or whatever....and lose 8 of 9. You can only ask the fans to go to the well so much. Just my opinion. PS....I was at almost every home game during Crean's first 3 years. Tickets were either free or very, very cheap. I know the fan side of things. Again...our fans aren't the issue right now. We're just worn out. 

I'm not sure why that's not a good example. It's not like all that stuff about Sampson and the players wasn't already known - pretty sure a couple of players had already been suspended, and there were a number of rumors about Sampson. We can't talk about doing things the Indiana way, support that mess with Sampson, and then turn around and not support Archie's efforts to try to build a program the right way. 

[rico]

20 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I'm not sure why that's not a good example. It's not like all that stuff about Sampson and the players wasn't already known - pretty sure a couple of players had already been suspended, and there were a number of rumors about Sampson. We can't talk about doing things the Indiana way, support that mess with Sampson, and then turn around and not support Archie's efforts to try to build a program the right way. 

Because the team was winning.  It ain't like Sampson came here and lost.  2 years, 2 NCAATs.

[Seeking6]

23 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I'm not sure why that's not a good example. It's not like all that stuff about Sampson and the players wasn't already known - pretty sure a couple of players had already been suspended, and there were a number of rumors about Sampson. We can't talk about doing things the Indiana way, support that mess with Sampson, and then turn around and not support Archie's efforts to try to build a program the right way. 

What Rico said. 

[AxnJxn]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

Because the team was winning.  It ain't like Sampson came here and lost.  2 years, 2 NCAATs.

Yes, I get that. It was also well known towards the end (before that MSU game) that there were all kinds of shady things going on, and yet the support was still there in droves. I'm just not seeing how we can thumb our noses at Kentucky when we're clearly not any better as fans. We'll obviously support someone who's cheating because they're winning, and not support someone who is trying to build things the right way because they're not winning, and that's after a whopping 18 months on the job. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, AxnJxn said:

Yes, I get that. It was also well known towards the end (before that MSU game) that there were all kinds of shady things going on, and yet the support was still there in droves. I'm just not seeing how we can thumb our noses at Kentucky when we're clearly not any better as fans. We'll obviously support someone who's cheating because they're winning, and not support someone who is trying to build things the right way because they're not winning, and that's after a whopping 18 months on the job. 

The fact is that the hammer hadn't fell on us yet.  The team was successful until Sampson was dismissed.  You are comparing apples to lemons.

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, rico said:

The fact is that the hammer hadn't fell on us yet.  The team was successful until Sampson was dismissed.  You are comparing apples to lemons.

I don't agree, but fine, take away the MSU comparison. This is still a fanbase that isn't supporting this current team, which sure looks and smells like fairweather behavior, particularly when you have a new coach trying to build a program. I'm not saying the fans are the only problem by any means - there isn't one single problem going on here, it's a combination of a lot of things. But, they aren't exactly helping, either.

[rico]

2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I don't agree, but fine, take away the MSU comparison. This is still a fanbase that isn't supporting this current team, which sure looks and smells like fairweather behavior, particularly when you have a new coach trying to build a program. I'm not saying the fans are the only problem by any means - there isn't one single problem going on here, it's a combination of a lot of things. But, they aren't exactly helping, either.

That is your take.  You can be supportive without being in AH.  Bloomington is a 5 hour drive for me and that is one way.  I ain't supporting the team?  I bet I was supporting them before you were born.  And I will continue to do so until the day I die.  People spend a lot of money to travel to B-town and catch a game.  One can't fault them for not going because the product isn't very good.  I think "fair weather" is absolute hyperbole when it comes to the IU fan base.  

[AxnJxn]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

That is your take.  You can be supportive without being in AH.  Bloomington is a 5 hour drive for me and that is one way.  I ain't supporting the team?  I bet I was supporting them before you were born.  And I will continue to do so until the day I die.  People spend a lot of money to travel to B-town and catch a game.  One can't fault them for not going because the product isn't very good.  I think "fair weather" is absolute hyperbole when it comes to the IU fan base.  

Your tangent about your length of time being a fan or comparing it to me is irrelevant - I never said anything about you personally. The product wasn't very good in Crean's first few years, either, and it wasn't very good in a few years in between and at the end, too. Why isn't Archie getting the same support that Crean did at the start? So, we supported Sampson when he was doing shady things, supported Crean when he was cleaning up that mess, but won't support Archie after 18 months? You can toss out all the excuses you want, but you can't excuse the fans for not being part of the problem right now.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, AxnJxn said:

Sorry, but I disagree. I don't think the fans are helping. We're in year 1.5 of Archie, and there have been some good signs during that time. Yeah, the last 6 weeks have sucked, but I was there on Sunday for my annual visit, and the balcony at least on one side was empty (not sure about the balcony above me), and the lower level was about 3/4 full on the opposite side. From what I've read/heard, the Thursday night crowd against Iowa was similarly sparse. I've heard a number of excuses, including weather, but those don't seem to be problems when we're winning. If you're not supporting the team when they are struggling, especially in a situation where a new coach is trying to rebuild and instill a culture of winning, well, that's kind of the definition of a fairweather fan, is it not?

Conversely, years back, I also came back for a game against Michigan State just before all the stuff hit the fan with Sampson, a game in which we won and the crowd was a huge part of why, and up to the usual Indiana standards. That team was comprised of a number of kids and a coach who weren't doing things the "Indiana way," however you want to define that (and I think most know what that means), but they were winning and receiving full support from the fanbase - packed house, loud as ever, and passionate. Kind of lame that we can support winning at any cost, but can't support losing in an effort to build a program the right way. I can kind of understand the former, I can't really understand the latter, especially when we pride ourselves on being this loyal, knowledgeable fan base.

Great post and seeing how a future players mother and a recruits mother was on twitter discussing how our fan base was ruthless.

[IU Scott]

45 minutes ago, rico said:

Because the team was winning.  It ain't like Sampson came here and lost.  2 years, 2 NCAATs.

What he is saying it is sad that fans came to see those teams when we knew what was about to hit the fan just because they were winning.  It seemed like after every game I watched that team played I felt like I should take a shower because that team was so dirty.  That was my least favorite team to watch since I have been an IU fan nd was never proud of that team.  I think it sad people can't support this coach who has only been here a 1.5 and trying to build IU up again.  We had some younger recruits at the game who we hope will come here in a few years and they see that the team is not getting the fans support might hurt our chances with those recruits.

[rico]

5 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Your tangent about your length of time being a fan or comparing it to me is irrelevant - I never said anything about you personally. The product wasn't very good in Crean's first few years, either, and it wasn't very good in a few years in between and at the end, too. Why isn't Archie getting the same support that Crean did at the start? So, we supported Sampson when he was doing shady things, supported Crean when he was cleaning up that mess, but won't support Archie after 18 months? You can toss out all the excuses you want, but you can't excuse the fans for not being part of the problem right now.

Talk to the people that live in the Bloomington/Indy area.  I don't blame Northerners for not attending games.  

[rico]

Just now, IU Scott said:

What he is saying it is sad that fans came to see those teams when we knew what was about to hit the fan just because they were winning.  It seemed like after every game I watched that team played I felt like I should take a shower because that team was so dirty.  That was my least favorite team to watch since I have been an IU fan nd was never proud of that team.  I think it sad people can't support this coach who has only been here a 1.5 and trying to build IU up again.  We had some younger recruits at the game who we hope will come here in a few years and they see that the team is not getting the fans support might hurt our chances with those recruits.

Let's morph it into something else.  Now we are talking recruits?

[IU Scott]

Just now, rico said:

Let's morph it into something else.  Now we are talking recruits?

I have said many times where the fans can influence things by what they say or do is with recruits.  Yes if they see that the coach is not getting support from the fans or what they say on social media about wanting the coach fired it does hurt recruiting.  If you want to put your head in the sand and not think this is the case that is your choice but you would be wrong.

[mrflynn03]

I think something that gets missed is it isn't so much the losing but the way we are losing. It's just bad basketball. Our guys are playing like the Cleveland Indians from the movie major league before Rick Vaughn turned it on. 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said:

I think something that gets missed is it isn't so much the losing but the way we are losing. It's just bad basketball. Our guys are playing like the Cleveland Indians from the movie major league before Rick Vaughn turned it on. 

Maybe we need to find a cutout of a women and every time we  win we take a piece of clothing off like that Indians team did.

[rico]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have said many times where the fans can influence things by what they say or do is with recruits.  Yes if they see that the coach is not getting support from the fans or what they say on social media about wanting the coach fired it does hurt recruiting.  If you want to put your head in the sand and not think this is the case that is your choice but you would be wrong.

The thread is about our crowd.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, rico said:

The thread is about our crowd.

I thought it was about fans ad the crowd could take it up to themselves to help pickup the team when things aren't going well.  

[FW_Hoosier]

I think people are romanticizing the crowd support we’ve had in the recent past.  I can’t really speak to earlier times, but when I was a freshman in Crean’s third year, tickets to an IU basketball game weren’t a hot commodity.  Student interest in the basketball team obviously skyrocketed after we beat UK in 2011 and then were ranked #1 the following year, but there have been the same complaints about the “lack of fan support” every single season since then.  As far as I can tell, fan support right now is the same as it’s been for a while now... When the team is good, fans pack the house and get loud for every game.  When the team is bad, fans only pack the house for the big games against ranked teams.  And it’s impossible for a crowd to get into a big game when the team gets dominated for the first 5-10 minutes and then has to play catch-up for the rest of the game (see our last 4 home games).

As for how the “new generation” of IU fans looks at the team, I can confidently say that doing things “The Indiana Way” means nothing... Winning is the only thing that matters.  Like it or not, that’s college basketball in 2019.

[Steubenhoosier]

25 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I think people are romanticizing the crowd support we’ve had in the recent past.  I can’t really speak to earlier times, but when I was a freshman in Crean’s third year, tickets to an IU basketball game weren’t a hot commodity.  Student interest in the basketball team obviously skyrocketed after we beat UK in 2011 and then were ranked #1 the following year, but there have been the same complaints about the “lack of fan support” every single season since then.  As far as I can tell, fan support right now is the same as it’s been for a while now... When the team is good, fans pack the house and get loud for every game.  When the team is bad, fans only pack the house for the big games against ranked teams.  And it’s impossible for a crowd to get into a big game when the team gets dominated for the first 5-10 minutes and then has to play catch-up for the rest of the game (see our last 4 home games).

As for how the “new generation” of IU fans looks at the team, I can confidently say that doing things “The Indiana Way” means nothing... Winning is the only thing that matters.  Like it or not, that’s college basketball in 2019.

Agree completely.

We should take down the 5 banners. Get rid of the candy stripes. No more William Tell at the 8 minute time out. While we’re at it, remove any trophies in AH that were earned by IUMBB in the past. After all, those representations of “the Indiana Way” mean nothing.

IMO, college basketball fandom in 2019 is looking up from your phone long enough to notice what’s going on on the court.

Like it or not 

[IU Scott]

43 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

I think people are romanticizing the crowd support we’ve had in the recent past.  I can’t really speak to earlier times, but when I was a freshman in Crean’s third year, tickets to an IU basketball game weren’t a hot commodity.  Student interest in the basketball team obviously skyrocketed after we beat UK in 2011 and then were ranked #1 the following year, but there have been the same complaints about the “lack of fan support” every single season since then.  As far as I can tell, fan support right now is the same as it’s been for a while now... When the team is good, fans pack the house and get loud for every game.  When the team is bad, fans only pack the house for the big games against ranked teams.  And it’s impossible for a crowd to get into a big game when the team gets dominated for the first 5-10 minutes and then has to play catch-up for the rest of the game (see our last 4 home games).

As for how the “new generation” of IU fans looks at the team, I can confidently say that doing things “The Indiana Way” means nothing... Winning is the only thing that matters.  Like it or not, that’s college basketball in 2019.

Like I have said before I blame some of that on the fact that there are a  lot less students form this area going to IU.  If we have a lot of students coming form the east coast who did not grow up on IU basketball they will not be interested in U basketball when they get here/

[rico]

42 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Like I have said before I blame some of that on the fact that there are a  lot less students form this area going to IU.  If we have a lot of students coming form the east coast who did not grow up on IU basketball they will not be interested in U basketball when they get here/

You don't seem to understand.  Even students from this state aren't used to IU being a power house.  They have never seen it.