NBA Thread

[Proud2BAHoosier]

Pacers have now won 4 in a row!!

[Bushmage]

Pacers have been so enjoyably surprising. I am ashamed to admit that when I found out we traded for Oladipo I felt like it was a terrible trade (it was) and that I would grow to resent my favorite college player as I watch him struggle with a gutted Pacers. Couldn't have been more wrong about that. I really am pulling for Dipo to get an all-star nod.

Now just make a jersey that doesn't tear so I can feel good about buying Vic's!

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bushmage

[FKIM01]

17 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Nate McMillan improves to 5-0 against Frank Vogel’s Magic. 

...I get your point, but I still think Vogel is a better coach...guessing the talent is just superior with the Pacers.  I hope I'm proven wrong on McMillan.

[Seeking6]

Really excited about this Pacers team. I know they'll have losses but post PG this is as good as you can expect. Those of us who thought we got the better end of the deal shouldn't hurt their hands patting themselves on the back yet but this is a good young team with team controlled contracts for at least next 3 years. Looking forward to going to BLF a few times this season.

On a side note. I didn't want to start a new thread to say this but very thankful there is zero ads/popups,etc....on this site. It's almost become annoying to go to certain sites (IU or otherwise) with the nonstop ads.

[JerseyHoosier]

Here's a nice article about Vic.

 

How Victor Oladipo went from Paul George trade punchline to possible Pacers All-Star

[FW_Hoosier]

19 minutes ago, JerseyHoosier said:

Here's a nice article about Vic.

 

How Victor Oladipo went from Paul George trade punchline to possible Pacers All-Star

Awesome to see Vic becoming the best player he could possibly be.  I should have expected it, as that’s exactly what he did at IU.  The kid is just driven.  He’s not gonna waste an ounce of his natural talent.

[FKIM01]

Great article. I just get annoyed at "well he's no Paul George".  Look at the stats this year and tell me he's no Paul George.

VO vs PG:

22.9 vs 21.9 PPG

45.8 vs 43.8 FG%

44.7 vs 42.5 3pt%

80.6 vs 79.4 FT%

5.2 vs 5.9 Rebounds

3.8 vs 2.8 assists

0.9 vs 0.4 blocks

1.7 vs 2.6 steals

2.7 vs 3.0 fouls

3.2 vs 2.7 T/O

Please tell me where Paul George is crushing VO...I don't see it.  The only arguments you have is they don't play the same position and personally I think VO's trajectory leaves a lot more in the tank than Paul George will have going forward.  Injuries are the only thing that changes that.

Enough of the "he's no Paul George" talk.  This year, he most certainly is.

[JerseyHoosier]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Great article. I just get annoyed at "well he's no Paul George".  Look at the stats this year and tell me he's no Paul George.

VO vs PG:

22.9 vs 21.9 PPG

45.8 vs 43.8 FG%

44.7 vs 42.5 3pt%

80.6 vs 79.4 FT%

5.2 vs 5.9 Rebounds

3.8 vs 2.8 assists

0.9 vs 0.4 blocks

1.7 vs 2.6 steals

2.7 vs 3.0 fouls

3.2 vs 2.7 T/O

Please tell me where Paul George is crushing VO...I don't see it.  The only arguments you have is they don't play the same position and personally I think VO's trajectory leaves a lot more in the tank than Paul George will have going forward.  Injuries are the only thing that changes that.

Enough of the "he's no Paul George" talk.  This year, he most certainly is.

Pretty even Steven...tipping in Vic's favor overall. It's an interesting and difficult comparison to make from many angles between the two. I just couldn't be happier that Vic has landed, in all places, Indiana to take that next step in his career. I just hope he can sustain this level of play throughout the season and be one of the centerpieces of the Pacers re-building process for the long term. 

[KoB2011]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/somebody-break-up-the-nbas-eastern-conference/?ex_cid=538twitter

[Hoosierhoopster]

15 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Great article. I just get annoyed at "well he's no Paul George".  Look at the stats this year and tell me he's no Paul George.

VO vs PG:

22.9 vs 21.9 PPG

45.8 vs 43.8 FG%

44.7 vs 42.5 3pt%

80.6 vs 79.4 FT%

5.2 vs 5.9 Rebounds

3.8 vs 2.8 assists

0.9 vs 0.4 blocks

1.7 vs 2.6 steals

2.7 vs 3.0 fouls

3.2 vs 2.7 T/OomPlease tell me where Paul George is crushing VO...I don't see it.  The only arguments you have is they don't play the same position and personally I think VO's trajectory leaves a lot more in the tank than Paul George will have going forward.  Injuries are the only thing that changes that.

Enough of the "he's no Paul George" talk.  This year, he most certainly is.

Oh now come on. Vic has started out great -- and again he's my favorite Hoosier of all time -- but no, he's not Paul George, there is literally no one in the NBA who would go anywhere near that statement. You don't just take a few games at the start of one season and compare stats, that's about as skewed and misleading as possible. If you want to compare stats, pull them up for Vic's career and then run the comparison. No where remotely in the same ball park. Vic is doing extremely well, if he keeps it up over the course of the season then fantastic, but don't go pulling early 2017-18 stats and try to make a comparison between him and a recognized superstar. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh now come on. Vic has started out great -- and again he's my favorite Hoosier of all time -- but no, he's not Paul George, there is literally no one in the NBA who would go anywhere near that statement. You don't just take a few games at the start of one season and compare stats, that's about as skewed and misleading as possible. If you want to compare stats, pull them up for Vic's career and then run the comparison. No where remotely in the same ball park. Vic is doing extremely well, if he keeps it up over the course of the season then fantastic, but don't go pulling early 2017-18 stats and try to make a comparison between him and a recognized superstar. 

I have never understood your love affair with Paul George.  it seems like you will defend him to your death while most are on a different side than you when it comes to PG.  He is a very good player but it is not like he is a all time great player where he is one of the best of all time.

[Seeking6]

Here's one thing I know for sure. After watching PG for years compared to this year's Pacers.....I realize how pathetic PG's "superstar" effort was. Night and day and a great breath of fresh air here locally. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Here's one thing I know for sure. After watching PG for years compared to this year's Pacers.....I realize how pathetic PG's "superstar" effort was. Night and day and a great breath of fresh air here locally. 

This is the most fun I had watching the Pacers in a long time.  Even the teams that went to the ECF a few years ago was not that entertaining to watch.  Like I have said before I lost all respect for PG when he declined to play the 4 for personal reasons and did not do what the team asked of him.  Also his constant whining got to me where I couldn't stand watching him.  He also did not come to play every night and coasted on some nights.

[Hoosierhoopster]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have never understood your love affair with Paul George.  it seems like you will defend him to your death while most are on a different side than you when it comes to PG.  He is a very good player but it is not like he is a all time great player where he is one of the best of all time.

Just stop it Scott, seriously. It's not a love affair,  and I'm not "defending" him, I'm responding to a post that you're ignoring in yet another post to take a jab. If you want to try to say that Victor Oladipo, as an NBA player, is on Paul George's level -- the post I replied to -- then you'd just be demonstrating a lack of knowledge. That comparison is completely false, and if you follow the NBA at all, you'd know that. What I never understand is why you go out of your way to post stuff like this. Whether you like it or not PG is a top 10-15 player in the League -- or for whatever it's worth, you can call him a top 25 player, who cares. No one would say Vic is a top 10-15 player or top 25 player. He is making a statement to include him as a top 50 player, which is fantastic, and maybe he continues to grow his game into that group of elite players, but he has a ways to go. I hope he gets there, your angst notwithstanding. 

[IU Scott]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Just stop it Scott, seriously. It's not a love affair,  and I'm not "defending" him, I'm responding to a post that you're ignoring in yet another post to take a jab. If you want to try to say that Victor Oladipo, as an NBA player, is on Paul George's level -- the post I replied to -- then you'd just be demonstrating a lack of knowledge. That comparison is completely false, and if you follow the NBA at all, you'd know that. What I never understand is why you go out of your way to post stuff like this. Whether you like it or  PG is a top 10-15 player in the League -- or for whatever it's worth, you can call him a top 25 player, who cares. No one would say Vic is a top 10-15 player or top 25 player. He is making a statement to include him as a top 50 player, which is fantastic, and maybe he continues to grow his game into that group of elite players, but he has a ways to go. I hope he gets there, your angst notwithstanding. 

In your opinion he is and just because you say it I does not mean it is a fact.  I just did not like him as a player and grew tired of his act on and off the court.  I also never said VO is a better player but just a better fit for the team concept that the Pacers are implementing.  I will take going forward the combo of VO and Sabonis over PG.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, IU Scott said:

In your opinion he is and just because you say it I does not mean it is a fact.  I just did not like him as a player and grew tired of his act on and off the court.  I also never said VO is a better player but just a better fit for the team concept that the Pacers are implementing.  I will take going forward the combo of VO and Sabonis over PG.

Honestly it's not just my opinion it's where things stand and there's literally no one in the NBA who'd say otherwise. I have no issue -- at all -- with your personal preference of Vic, or your belief that Vic and Sabonis are better for the Pacers in the long term, or your losing respect for PG, those are all your perceptions and they have as much value as anyone else's opinion. You do not need to keep throwing posts my way about my "love affair" with PG, etc., though. I hope Vic continues to grow his game, it's great to see him turning into a young star. 

[KoB2011]

Right now Paul George is better than Vic. If Vic continues this play for a season, it's fair to have he conversation if he has caught him. History only has a small part of the pie when discussing who is the better player, but the sample size isn't big enough to say Vic has caught him... Yet. 

The better discussion for Vic might be when can we start talking about him as the best two guard in the East?

[BGleas]

It's not really a fair comparison to compare Vic's stats this year to PG's. A more fair look would be comparing Vic last year to PG this year (because playing with a player as ball dominant as Westbrook skews things) or compare PG last year to Vic this year (again the Westbrook factor). 

On the Pacers/Vic, I have to admit I'm really surprised at how they are/seem to be playing. I only say "seem" because I haven't had the chance to see one of their games yet. I was definitely one that thought they made a bad deal, or at least had other more attractive deals. I thought the better play would be stockpile draft picks and acquire more team friendly deals and flexibility. 

The beauty of how this all appears to be playing out (you knew I was going to bring it back to Boston!) is that the Pacers got some good young pieces that are excelling, and as a Celtics fan while I thought the Pacers should have taken the Bradley, Crowder, picks deal (if it was even really on the table), I didn't want PG and am happy with Kyrie. For the Pacers, they'd have Bradley who is solid but unspectacular and needs to be paid, Crowder while a good role player and a good contract isn't a game-changer, and now that Brooklyn pick everyone coveted is looking more like a 7-10 pick (I'm telling you, Danny Ainge is a genius!). In hindsight, that deal probably would have backfired in Indy, and potentially Boston too if PG left. 

Bringing it back to the Pacers fully, I'm pretty shocked at how well Vic is doing. Don't get me wrong, I loved him at IU and thought he was a good NBA player in the right situation (3rd/4th guy on a good team), I'm pretty shocked at how well and efficient he's playing in this primary role and that they're actually winning. It's still really early though, and there's a long season to go, so we'll see if he can maintain, but as of now if you're a Pacers fan you have to be pretty happy with how things are playing out, and yes it appears they made the right deal.

My only question about the deal now is what is the ceiling really for this group? The young guys will continue to improve, but I'm not sure that along makes this group a real contender down the road for much more than maybe the second round. They will need to find a way to creatively add more impact pieces to this core, but the good new is that there seems to be a good, young core to begin with, no all teams have that. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by BGleas

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh now come on. Vic has started out great -- and again he's my favorite Hoosier of all time -- but no, he's not Paul George, there is literally no one in the NBA who would go anywhere near that statement. You don't just take a few games at the start of one season and compare stats, that's about as skewed and misleading as possible. If you want to compare stats, pull them up for Vic's career and then run the comparison. No where remotely in the same ball park. Vic is doing extremely well, if he keeps it up over the course of the season then fantastic, but don't go pulling early 2017-18 stats and try to make a comparison between him and a recognized superstar. 

The numbers don't lie.

Moreover, I would tell you that I believe PG is past the midpoint on his skills trajectory while VO is still climbing.

I get it...you say the sample size is too small. I say that Vic has spent his career proving people wrong and I don't think he's done making the experts look foolish

[FW_Hoosier]

31 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Right now Paul George is better than Vic. If Vic continues this play for a season, it's fair to have he conversation if he has caught him. History only has a small part of the pie when discussing who is the better player, but the sample size isn't big enough to say Vic has caught him... Yet. 

The better discussion for Vic might be when can we start talking about him as the best two guard in the East?

Seems like DeRozan and Beal are the only other Eastern Conference SGs in the discussion with Vic.  Of those three, DeRozan is the leader in PPG, APG, FT%, and FG%.  Vic is the leader in SPG, BPG, 3P%, and eFG%.  Beal is just barely the leader in T/OPG, although he’s averaging slightly more PPG than Vic.  They all have pretty similar stats up to this point, but I would say that it goes: 1. DeRozan, 2. Vic, 3. Beal at this point.  There’s an argument to be made for Vic at #1 though, considering how efficiently he’s scoring, how well he’s shooting from three, and what he brings on defense.

[FKIM01]

37 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's not really a fair comparison to compare Vic's stats this year to PG's. A more fair look would be comparing Vic last year to PG this year (because playing with a player as ball dominant as Westbrook skews things) or compare PG last year to Vic this year (again the Westbrook factor). 

 

I just went back and looked and I'm not going to spend the time posting all the comparisons again (too much work to get done!) but suffice it to say, George plays about a minute more, shoots a little more efficiently and averaged 1.8 PPG less than last year. Overall, Vic compares well to those numbers too and PG doesn't appear to be really adversely affected by the Westbrook factor.  I would argue that Vic was considerably more affected by the Westbrook factor since they are both guards and Westbrook, for whatever reason, appears to be more willing to share with his new sidekicks than he was with the guys who got traded.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

The numbers don't lie.

Moreover, I would tell you that I believe PG is past the midpoint on his skills trajectory while VO is still climbing.

I get it...you say the sample size is too small. I say that Vic has spent his career proving people wrong and I don't think he's done making the experts look foolish

No offense man but the "numbers" are those of less than 20 games in one season. The "numbers" that don't lie are their career numbers. Go ahead and compare them. If you want to talk about last year, then last year Vic - as much as I love his game, and I'm the one on here who repeatedly said I thought he could be an all star when he was not playing well in Orlando - did not play well. The guard comparison is a no go. The "2" and "3" that they're playing are the same, the difference is the side of the floor they play on. That was the entire difference while PG was with the Pacers and it's basically the way both teams play. I get that you love Vic and got fed up with PG, but no,  man, Vic's roughly 20 games with the Pacers do not suddenly make him a top player in the League. I hope he keeps it up and earns that spot, but no, he's not there now, and this comparison is meaningless.

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

Bringing it back to the Pacers fully, I'm pretty shocked at how well Vic is doing. Don't get me wrong, I loved him at IU and thought he was a good NBA player in the right situation (3rd/4th guy on a good team), I'm pretty shocked at how well and efficient he's playing in this primary role and that they're actually winning. It's still really early though, and there's a long season to go, so we'll see if he can maintain, but as of now if you're a Pacers fan you have to be pretty happy with how things are playing out, and yes it appears they made the right deal.

My only question about the deal now is what is the ceiling really for this group? The young guys will continue to improve, but I'm not sure that along makes this group a real contender down the road for much more than maybe the second round. They will need to find a way to creatively add more impact pieces to this core, but the good new is that there seems to be a good, young core to begin with, no all teams have that. 

 

 

This is an objective viewpoint, and fair, not skewed by the Pacer fan or the fan who for whatever reason did not like PG. Taking it by analogy, IU looked great when they beat KU last year, started strong. Rob looked fantastic for 50% of the year. CuJo was a beast in the KU game. It's a season, you don't draw crazy comparisons to veteran NBA allstars and franchise players based on less than 1/4 of the season and ignoring how a player struggled over a full year coming in and has never been considered better than a top 50 player. I'm a huge Vic fan. But a little perspective. Give him the time to prove himself over the course of the season and against the elite players who the teams will start putting on him as the new look P's continue to be scouted. It's early, give him time.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

 

Bringing it back to the Pacers fully, I'm pretty shocked at how well Vic is doing. Don't get me wrong, I loved him at IU and thought he was a good NBA player in the right situation (3rd/4th guy on a good team), I'm pretty shocked at how well and efficient he's playing in this primary role and that they're actually winning. It's still really early though, and there's a long season to go, so we'll see if he can maintain, but as of now if you're a Pacers fan you have to be pretty happy with how things are playing o

My only question about the deal now is what is the ceiling really for this group? The young guys will continue to improve, but I'm not sure that along makes this group a real contender down the road for much more than maybe the second round. They will need to find a way to creatively add more impact pieces to this core, but the good new is that there seems to be a good, young core to begin with, no all teams have that. 

 

 

I'm not sure I agree about their potential. Turner, Sabonis and Vic are all the guys who could be regular All-Stars. I wish we had OG to pair with them instead of Leaf, but I think this core is oozing with potential. 

[BGleas]

7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm not sure I agree about their potential. Turner, Sabonis and Vic are all the guys who could be regular All-Stars. I wish we had OG to pair with them instead of Leaf, but I think this core is oozing with potential. 

I've been wrong before, as indicated by my position on the trade at the time (though it still could play out differently), but IMO as of now and taking things like health out of the equation, when looking at the East post-LeBron that core is clearly behind the Celtics and Sixers, and most likely the Bucks and at least for a few years the Wizards and Raptors. Even the Knicks if they can make good moves going forward to add to Porzingas. 

I kind of see this Pacers young core similar to the Hawks the last 8 or so years with Horford, Teague, etc. Really good/solid regular season team, but pretty much a 2nd round and out team when it comes to the playoffs. 

Again, I could be wrong of course, just how I see it right now. I think Vic, Sabonis and Turner are really good young players, but I don't see super-star in any of them. Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, and maybe even Knicks already have that player on their rosters (taking health out of it), and you need that super-star to really advance deep in the playoffs.