IU Scott Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 Seeing all of these transfers and kids declaring for the draft just got me thinking as to what has happened in society. This is not one of my arguments of the past being better but really want your opinion on this topic. Yes there were transfer back in the day but not the volume we see today. Yes there was kids leaving early to go to the draft but usually not until after their junior year. There were plenty of players back then that were good enough to go right out of high school or leave early but they chose not to. It also just seems like kids will just transfer way to early f they don't get playing time right away where in the past they were patient enough to stay and compete. It can't just be money because rookie contracts was way higher back then than it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 It starts on the rec field of t ball, softball, football, basketball or whatever. Everyone gets a trophy. Everyone that shows talent at a young age is “amazing” so they expect to play at the higher level when they get there as well. Also all forms of media but especially social media plays a part in this culture as well. Lots of studies on how social media actually isolates you more and promotes narcissistic like thoughts. The online community started as a way to connect with family and friends to a tool for driving self first. YouTube, Twitter, Instagram. Every great player in every county in every state are told they are the next Lebron and they push that narrative through all these services. Many don’t want to stay and work to get better, they prefer the quick and easy path. And some work hard but don’t have the talent and don’t want to face being a role player. It’s hard after having your own twitter account for 4 years and thousands of followers to be told you just aren’t as good as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 Their mindset is simple...what's best for me. Self interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 I hear what you guys are saying, but... The system, or should I say, the NCAA, has fostered this environment. They established the transfer portal and transfer rules. They established the fact that a scholarship is a series of one year commitments and can be rescinded by the coach at the end of any season. They have empowered schools to be able to dictate that if a kid wants to transfer, there may be some schools that they can’t go to (I realize that is a football issue, Scott didn’t necessarily limit this conversation to hoops.) Frankly, being able to transfer gives back some power/leverage to the kids. Maybe some make a decision to transfer because they feel entitled to minutes or don’t want to work to the level expected by their coaches. But maybe, they made a mistake. They did make a huge decision at age 17-18. I made tons of mistakes at that age. I made poor judgements. I bet many on here did. Often, I have heard people say that their college years were the happiest/best of their lives. If there is any grain of truth to that, why should these kids have to give that up if they are miserable in their current situation? I get it. Kids transferring can wreak havoc on a program, especially if the departures are unexpected. A healthy program will be able to withstand this temporary distraction. “Our Beloved Team” is not the answer for every kid and I really don’t think that character assassination is a good or fair stance to take when a kid decides to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 Money makes the world go 'round. These kids are chasing that rainbow with the pot of gold at the end of it. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 14 hours ago, IU Scott said: Seeing all of these transfers and kids declaring for the draft just got me thinking as to what has happened in society. This is not one of my arguments of the past being better but really want your opinion on this topic. Yes there were transfer back in the day but not the volume we see today. Yes there was kids leaving early to go to the draft but usually not until after their junior year. There were plenty of players back then that were good enough to go right out of high school or leave early but they chose not to. It also just seems like kids will just transfer way to early f they don't get playing time right away where in the past they were patient enough to stay and compete. It can't just be money because rookie contracts was way higher back then than it is today. Kids haven't changed. Parents have. Looking for a problem with the kids I'd say look at the parents first...and this isn't just in sports. In all extracurricular activities. Pretty sad to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, rico said: Money makes the world go 'round. These kids are chasing that rainbow with the pot of gold at the end of it. Nothing wrong with that. You're right and I'm okay there. I just think many are following pipe dreams that they can play in the nba when it's not going to happen. And they're throwing away the educational safety net of their scholarship. Yeah, I know, many have no interest in school...and that's a failure of our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, jv1972iu said: You're right and I'm okay there. I just think many are following pipe dreams that they can play in the nba when it's not going to happen. And they're throwing away the educational safety net of their scholarship. Yeah, I know, many have no interest in school...and that's a failure of our society. It’s also changed that we live in a global economy with mass communication. 20+ years ago the idea of missing the NBA and ending up in Europe was seen as a failure. Now, if you don’t get drafted you go to the G-League which is an established minor league at this point or you go to Europe or China and still make six figures, and with social media, smart phones, etc., you can FaceTime family, share videos and it’s not like you’re even really away. Go play basketball overseas, make six figures, build a global brand, and not even really miss your family that much. That option wasn’t nearly as attractive in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, BGleas said: It’s also changed that we live in a global economy with mass communication. 20+ years ago the idea of missing the NBA and ending up in Europe was seen as a failure. Now, if you don’t get drafted you go to the G-League which is an established minor league at this point or you go to Europe or China and still make six figures, and with social media, smart phones, etc., you can FaceTime family, share videos and it’s not like you’re even really away. Go play basketball overseas, make six figures, build a global brand, and not even really miss your family that much. That option wasn’t nearly as attractive in the past. BGleas, having worked in the nba, do you have any info on the number of kids who take that route and go to Europe, China etc? I always wonder how many actually end up being able to successfully handle the kind of move we're talking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: Kids haven't changed. Parents have. Looking for a problem with the kids I'd say look at the parents first...and this isn't just in sports. In all extracurricular activities. Pretty sad to see. I will give you that...but the money has changed as well. And that goes for all sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, rico said: I will give you that...but the money has changed as well. And that goes for all sports. Yep and all the parents are looking for a return on their investment. Can't speak to all situations...but a good friend of mine who I think is pretty reasonable in life is spending $9k per year on his 11 year old daughter's travel hockey team. He said the goal is hopefully get a scholarship to pay for college. If it's on his brain when she's 11....can only imagine what's on the brain of the parents of some of these kids. I mean Nojel Eastern's Mom is a regular on boards and she really thinks her son is a first rounder. Even this year. Can't get more delusional. Money makes you do and think some pretty dumb things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 hours ago, iuthruandthru said: It starts on the rec field of t ball, softball, football, basketball or whatever. Everyone gets a trophy. Everyone that shows talent at a young age is “amazing” so they expect to play at the higher level when they get there as well. The thing I find funny is that many blame the kids but it was the parents fault that the “everyone gets a trophy” era started. As my now college age son once said “dad, I was 7, I didn’t ask for the trophies the teams gave to me”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Yep and all the parents are looking for a return on their investment. Can't speak to all situations...but a good friend of mine who I think is pretty reasonable in life is spending $9k per year on his 11 year old daughter's travel hockey team. He said the goal is hopefully get a scholarship to pay for college. If it's on his brain when she's 11....can only imagine what's on the brain of the parents of some of these kids. I mean Nojel Eastern's Mom is a regular on boards and she really thinks her son is a first rounder. Even this year. Can't get more delusional. Money makes you do and think some pretty dumb things. Well if they save that $9k every year they would have enough money to pay for college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Yep and all the parents are looking for a return on their investment. Can't speak to all situations...but a good friend of mine who I think is pretty reasonable in life is spending $9k per year on his 11 year old daughter's travel hockey team. He said the goal is hopefully get a scholarship to pay for college. If it's on his brain when she's 11....can only imagine what's on the brain of the parents of some of these kids. I mean Nojel Eastern's Mom is a regular on boards and she really thinks her son is a first rounder. Even this year. Can't get more delusional. Money makes you do and think some pretty dumb things. Oh yeah. I got a dear friend that for the last three years has been spending $10,000 per year for his son playing baseball. The kid is 14. Already thinking about that big MLB contract. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well if they save that $9k every year they would have enough money to pay for college Sometimes the parents want to make up for their athletic "failures" through their kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well if they save that $9k every year they would have enough money to pay for college Yep. If they save that $9k every year for 4-5 years they can afford 1 year of out of state tuition only to a school like IU. They see it as spending $ for 4-5 years to see if their kid excels at a sport where she could get a full time ride to colleges that have hockey where the investment of $9k per year for 4-5 years could be worth $150-$175k. Make sense? Back to your original post and my point. Kids haven't changed. Parents have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 I'll tell you, parenting is hard right now. I come from a basketball family. My Dad and both my uncles all played college basketball. I played college basketball as well, and none of us ever once stepped foot on an AAU basketball court. None of us has personal trainers. We just played basketball all the time with our friends. My son is now 9 and absolutely loves basketball. The kid is in the driveway every day playing before and after school. I coached his 3rd grade rec team this winter and we practiced at 7pm, but every night he made me go to the 6pm teams practice before ours just so he could be in the gym, and so he could practice with the team before us if they needed an extra player. Most nights he practiced for a full two hours and loved every second of it. I bring this up because I know my son loves the game and I know he wants to follow in my and his grandfathers footsteps. But, I see these kids even in 3rd grade rec leagues and you can tell they have personal trainers, are taking private basketball lessons, etc., etc. They're already prepping for travel basketball. I think it's ridiculous, especially at this age, but at the same time I want to give my son the opportunity to compete with his peers. I'm under no illusions that he's going to play any level of professional basketball, but all these kids have trainers. I don't want to do that, as I mentioned I think it's ridiculous, but what am I supposed to do? I don't want him to fall behind in something he loves and wants to be good at. Just saying, it's really tough being a parent in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATX_sig Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 I don't think that rookie contracts were much bigger back then and there are more pro options to make money now compared to before. Doncic is getting 6 mil this year as the third pick. Lebron made 4 mil on his initial NBA contract season. I do wonder if at some point the NBA will have to adjust their rookie scale based on the fact that there now mostly under 20 year olds dominating the top of the draft. I think you have to factor in that the 2nd best place competition wise to the NBA to play basketball was NCAA. With the rise of international basketball, that is also no longer the case. International players are much better than before and quality wise have closed the gap. US still dominates based on quantity and athleticism. The Euro leagues outside the US are probably better than the NCAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Yep. If they save that $9k every year for 4-5 years they can afford 1 year of out of state tuition only to a school like IU. They see it as spending $ for 4-5 years to see if their kid excels at a sport where she could get a full time ride to colleges that have hockey where the investment of $9k per year for 4-5 years could be worth $150-$175k. Make sense? Back to your original post and my point. Kids haven't changed. Parents have. I get that but if they start at age 10 so that is 8 years of saving money so that is around $72K. What is the percentage of high school athletes that will get D1 scholarships because other levels don't usually give full rides. Also sports like baseball only get so many scholarships per team and not everyone gets full rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, ATX_sig said: I don't think that rookie contracts were much bigger back then and there are more pro options to make money now compared to before. Doncic is getting 6 mil this year as the third pick. Lebron made 4 mil on his initial NBA contract season. I do wonder if at some point the NBA will have to adjust their rookie scale based on the fact that there now mostly under 20 year olds dominating the top of the draft. I think you have to factor in that the 2nd best place competition wise to the NBA to play basketball was NCAA. With the rise of international basketball, that is also no longer the case. International players are much better than before and quality wise have closed the gap. US still dominates based on quantity and athleticism. The Euro leagues outside the US are probably better than the NCAA. Well Glenn Robinson contract was worth around $100 million in 1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 You’re making an assumption on transfers that’s often not true. Mentioned this earlier but the transfers often occur - at virtually every program in the country - following the end of year meetings with coaches, and after recruiting for the next season. You’re assuming players are leaving early just because they’re not immediately getting the PT they want. That’s sometimes true (and may reflect a disconnect in what the staff told a player to get him to commit), but it’s often the result of that end of year meeting where the player is given the coach’s read on the player’s future with the team. Transfers are often best for the kid, that’s just reality. On the pros, as Gleas referenced, things have changed, significantly. The options for the G League, Europe, and China were not there in the past, in remotely the way they are now. And as Steub referenced, the NCAA rules drive a lot of this stuff. The one and done rule is a shining example. Kids who would have gone straight to the draft couldn’t. There are lots of factors, thinking that kids or their parents have changed misses the mark. Times and opportunities and rules have changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: You’re making an assumption on transfers that’s often not true. Mentioned this earlier but the transfers often occur - at virtually every program in the country - following the end of year meetings with coaches, and after recruiting for the next season. You’re assuming players are leaving early just because they’re not immediately getting the PT they want. That’s sometimes true (and may reflect a disconnect in what the staff told a player to get him to commit), but it’s often the result of that end of year meeting where the player is given the coach’s read on the player’s future with the team. Transfers are often best for the kid, that’s just reality. On the pros, as Gleas referenced, things have changed, significantly. The options for the G League, Europe, and China were not there in the past, in remotely the way they are now. And as Steub referenced, the NCAA rules drive a lot of this stuff. The one and done rule is a shining example. Kids who would have gone straight to the draft couldn’t. There are lots of factors, thinking that kids or their parents have changed misses the mark. Times and opportunities and rules have changed My point on leaving early is that players of the 80's and 90's all had opportunities to go straight to the NBA or leave early but they decided not to. Rookie contracts were higher then and kids still decided to stay 3 or 4 years. To me the one and done rule has not really impacted this as much as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I get that but if they start at age 10 so that is 8 years of saving money so that is around $72K. What is the percentage of high school athletes that will get D1 scholarships because other levels don't usually give full rides. Also sports like baseball only get so many scholarships per team and not everyone gets full rides. Trust me. I'm with you....and just to be clear. I think it's absolutely asinine to pay that much $ for any activity for a kid.....unless the kid happens to be in the .000001% crowd where a strong likelihood of professional $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Well Glenn Robinson contract was worth around $100 million in 1994 The NBA and foreign money is much more lucrative now than it was back in the day. There was a few years period when rookie contracts were not “controlled/slotted” like they are now and they got out of control. Overall, however, NBA salaries have absolutely skyrocketed from the ‘80’s/90’s. Massive increases. In the 1989-1990 season the team salary cap was 7,000,000 which is equivalent to 14,200,000 today. The current salary cap, however, is $102,000,000 (over 7 times as much money sloshing around). The rookie minimum in the 1989-1990 season was $100,000 which is equilvilant to $203,000 today. The rookie minimum today, however, is $838,464. I don’t think all these guys think they are Lebron but rather see the Troy and Yogi’s of the league still making millions. Going back to the top players.....In the 1989-1990 season these were the top four paid players in the entire league: Kareem 3,000,000......6,090,000 in today’s dollars Ewing 2,800,000.....5,684,000 Magic 2,500,000.....5,075,000 Jordan 2,200,000.....4,466,000 In today’s dollars Kareem, the top scorer in NBA history, made 6,090,000 a year while Cody Zeller is making $14,000,000! Hell, a 6 point 4 rebound guy can make 6mm these days and stars are making 30-40 or more million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, IU878176 said: The thing I find funny is that many blame the kids but it was the parents fault that the “everyone gets a trophy” era started. As my now college age son once said “dad, I was 7, I didn’t ask for the trophies the teams gave to me”. Absolutely! Just like the culture of calling every girl a princess. The kid didn’t ask to be called that. As a coach I banned snacks post game and rewards. You got popsicles only if you put in the effort to deserve it dang it, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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